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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng
The mailing address has nothing to do with it. It is where the service is being received at. That is the same situation the OP has. Wants a station not available in their area, and saying they live somewhere that is eligible and then receiving it "out of market.". We have federal laws in the US about that. It is called SHVERA, Satellite Home Viewer Exension & Reauthorization Act of 2004.
But is it the customer that is "breaking the law" or is it the broker who is providing the grey market service..? (Speaking about the Canadian satcos)
 

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I'm not old and senile........I just don't accept people, like satellite providers, telling me that reception of an OTA signal is "impossible", and that I might as well just sign up for a lifetime of giving them my hard-earned ('though easily spent) dollars for something that is being provided for free in the first place :) .


I looked at your general location.....around Louisville and Indianapolis.....and there are several OTA stations doing DTV. You might want to check out the above-mentioned websites, then try an antenna from someone like Radio Shack (who let you return them if they don't work to your expectations). Try aiming it at each city, then decide if you want to buy a rotor to get them all, or stay with only one city's stations.


Analog may not always look great "on a hill", but DTV works well under some unusual circumstances.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I appreciate your suggestions, but I already said I tried it with a Channel Master 4228. I adjusted the antenna many times. I already checked anntennaweb for appropriate pointing directions.


OTA ceases to feel free to me when you have to spend $500 on a tower to get the signal (if that would even work for me). I live about 100 miles from Indianapolis and 40-50miles from Louisville, which would be a fine distance for OTA DTV if I didn't have a hill that peaked 100ft higher than my house to the east with tall trees.


I'm sure that you are very knowledgable, but folks on here don't seem to understand that some people live in rurals areas with topography that inhibits OTA. Believe it or not, I spent hours and hours along with a couple hundred dollars trying to make it work. So please don't act like I'm some young kid wanting the easy route. You haven't been to my house and attempted to do what you said I should be able to do. I'm happy to get the suggestions, just don't need to hear them condescendingly.
 

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You might want to get a professional involved that has signal meter equipment (the guy I use recently updated to equipment that detects digital signals). I know a guy about 1/4 mile from me that is at a higher elevation than I am, tried the DIY route and can't get a thing (he borrowed my DTV receiver for testing), I hired a pro to move my tower when I relocated and can get everything. I'm in a fringe area similar to you and have had trees in the way both at my new location and old location.


Of course, the chicken and egg thing here is if you don't have the tower, how do you know it won't help, but if you put it in and it doesn't work, you've wasted the money. I'm sure some installers may have creative ways around that as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
That's true. I just hate the possibility of wasting the money. There is a professional installer that my parents have used. He is an amazing guy. In his upper sixties and still climbs towers with an antenna in one hand. He drove past my house and was skeptical on how good the signal can be. I may do that route or try to do what I started the post about: get HD networks from a Sat provider. Hopefully, 12-24 months from now it will be a moot point b/c somebody will have my locals available in HD anyway.


Thanks for all the advice on the topic. I think I have the info I need.
 

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Wish you had given your location. We could have looked up some more accurate info for you....as it was, everyone had to just guesstimate.


Hopefully, after the next FCC Spectrum Auction, stations will be able to start construction of the DTV translators for rural areas. The SLC stations have a stack of them, still in the boxes, waiting to go on air. The experimental ones are working well, with just a small rooftop antenna.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Quote:
Hopefully, after the next FCC Spectrum Auction, stations will be able to start construction of the DTV translators for rural areas. The SLC stations have a stack of them, still in the boxes, waiting to go on air. The experimental ones are working well, with just a small rooftop antenna.
Never heard of this but very interested. What are the DTV translators and what do they do?
 

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Many stations serving wide areas have translators which help extnd their signals to outlying communities. These can be especially helpful in eitheir very large areas or tricky terrain.


As I understand it, and kenglish please set me straight, in layman's terms there is a problem with the digital translators -- they need new or expanded bandwidth which stations don't yet have access to.
 

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In areas which are "within" (FCC lingo) our primary DTV coverage area, but blocked somewhat by terrain, we are able to license these translators as On-Channel Boosters. They receive the signal near the top of a hill, then retransmit it on the same channel, from the other side of the same hill.


For true translators, we have to receive the primary (or a previously relayed) signal on it's incoming channel, then re-broadcast it on a different channel.


Testing has shown that the DTV channel can be transmitted on a channel immediately adjacent to the analog translator's output channel, at about 10% of the analog's power. Often, the DTV translator (basically an 8VSB DTV Cable headend processor) can be amplified by the same power amp as the analog. So, we can often add DTV for the cost of a procs (maybe $3500 each) and a receive antenna (one per site, in some locations).


Here's some info, from the man himself:

http://www.tech-notes.tv/Seminar/KentParson.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I called D*, and they told me that I could subscribe to the East/West Coast HD networks. My last question is this: will these feeds changeover to MPEG4 since their origin is 2 of the 12 markets being upgraded, or will I still be able to get them in a couple months with MPEG2 equipment?


Getting these channels is the only reason I would get D* instead of E*, but I don't want to find out in two months that I can't get them anymore.
 

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Just a point of reference. I was told I could not get local OTA in my area. I am 35 miles from the Los Angeles transmitters on Mt Wilson. However I have a 2700' peak in my direct line of sight 3 miles from me. I spent a year of messing around but I now get all L.A. digital channels.


I tried a Channel Master 4248 with their 7775 preamp. Got only half of the channels. Now have a Winegard 8200 with their 8275 preamp. Also switched to RG11 super low loss coax and removed all the splitters except a super efficient 3.5 db splitter.


I also played around with aiming the antenna endlessly until I found the sweet spot (I could write a paper on this).


Also I had a pine tree right in front of the antenna which I cut down - had no effect.


In my case 5 years ago OTA was the only local HD option. So sometimes if you are really dedicated you can do well with OTA.


Just my $.02 worth.


Rick R
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMAC
I called D*, and they told me that I could subscribe to the East/West Coast HD networks.
Are you in a designated white area? They said nothing about waivers, just sign up for both E/W HD/DNS? Man, there is a lot of conflicting info coming out of those people, as usually.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I have no idea if I am in a white area or not. That is what the CSR told me. I haven't signed up yet, so we will see what happens.
 

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DAMAC, if in fact you end up with both East and West HD feeds tomorrow, I suspect a lot of folks in this forum will be moving to wherever it is you live by next weekend.


Sadly, it appears you got through to a misinformed CSR.


One of the benefits of actually being a D* subscriber is that you can call customer retention directly and usually (not always) get a far more informed answer to your questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I didn't expect to get East AND West feeds. I was hoping to just get East coast feeds. Is D* doing away with these national feeds altogether or just the ability to get one or the other. I posed this in another thread, and nobody answered the question. I wondered if these feeds would be switching to MPEG4 since they originate from 2 of the 12 cities making the switch. Anybody able to clarify that for me?


I don't care about getting East and West. Just tell me if people in "white areas" will still get one or the other.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng
The mailing address has nothing to do with it. It is where the service is being received at. That is the same situation the OP has. Wants a station not available in their area, and saying they live somewhere that is eligible and then receiving it "out of market.". We have federal laws in the US about that. It is called SHVERA, Satellite Home Viewer Exension & Reauthorization Act of 2004.
I've scanned through the SHVERA 2004 document on the FCC website, and cannot find any references to receiving satellite transmissions from a foreign country. Can you point out the section that prohibits such reception?


Also, I was led to believe that the laws are not quite reciprocal. Canadian law prohibits reception of US satellite programming up there, but there is no corresponding law down here. All that I can find is that the Canadian government does not allow their satellite providers to sign up customers here. Hence the need for an address in Canada.


As a highly respected contributor to the AVS forums, I welcome your opinions and guidance on this subject.
 

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If you are in a white area, you should get the east coast HD feeds.


But any station may claim you if you are somehow in their DMA. And if they claim you they will prevent you from getting that network's HD feed from NY.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa
If you are in a white area, you should get the east coast HD feeds.


But any station may claim you if you are somehow in their DMA. And if they claim you they will prevent you from getting that network's HD feed from NY.
Fred


If you were answering Rick, he is in Simi Vally, just west of the San Frenando Vally. According to DirecTV's interpretation of the SHVERA, he can only receive the LA HD DNS. And, of course he is in the LA DMA so he will receive those automatically if he adds locals.


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl033
I've scanned through the SHVERA 2004 document on the FCC website, and cannot find any references to receiving satellite transmissions from a foreign country. Can you point out the section that prohibits such reception?


As a highly respected contributor to the AVS forums, I welcome your opinions and guidance on this subject.
Carl


The USA does not prohibit anyone in the USA from receiving satellite transmissions from another country. However, Canada DOES have prohibitions against their residents from receiving satellite broadcasts from the USA. (Something about keeping the Canucks "culturally" pure).


So, to adhere to to Canadian government wishes, DirecTV and Dish Network will not knowingly accept Canadian subscribers. Then Canada put similar restrictions against Canadian Sat companies "corrupting USA cultural values."


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Wood
The USA does not prohibit anyone in the USA from receiving satellite transmissions from another country.
As I've recently said, I also believe this to be the case. I would be very interested in any additional information that can resolve this issue once and for all.
 
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