AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I knew I would have more questions. Searched, looked at tim rudolph's posts and answers and now must reveal my ignorance.


Put up(actually still a work in progress re height and guying etc--seperate thread problems) a new antenna, which was in the attic, attempting for Chicago and Madison since in Brew city only PBS (channel 8) and NBC (channel 28) are on HD. From my house the local Milwaukee channels are at about 80 degrees. However Chicago is at about 140 degrees and Madison at 260 degrees, hence the rotar. When I scan at each antenna placement I get the mostly the correct channel mapping( I think, checked out the various sites for active HDTV stations)FOR BOTH DIGITALS AND ANALOGS. However after each scan, the actives are removed from the guide, reverse of the infamous channel creep for the Hughes boxes.


I need a way to keep the channels in the guide after rotating so I can receive the appropriate digitals for each location. I tried compromise positions, but with the directionality of the RS 190 VHF/UHF (CM xx77 preamp), no position results in all scanning in simultaneously. At least as a start, what am I doing wrong and what should I do--only one zip entered(tried two, one from one of the two other cities)??


Thanks for any asistance in advance.


Bill


------------------

Cranial Nerve II With control by III, IV, and VI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,279 Posts
Strictly a shot in the dark:


Clear the local channel list by unchecking all channels.


Eliminate the zip code.


Scan one time while rotating the antenna between 80° and 260°.


After the scan, allow the DTV guide to download.


No guarantee, but little to lose. If it works, you will not have local channel program descriptions; however, that is better than not having the channels.


Perhaps some of the folk in other multi-city source locations have a better idea.


------------------


Bill Brenner


[This message has been edited by wjbjr (edited 08-28-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Bill,


You might try clearing all channels, then do a scan with the antenna pointed in the direction of the most broadcasters you want to watch (say Milwaukee). Next point towards Chicago, and manually add each channel you want by going down the channel list and selecting one at a time. Repeat with the antenna pointed towards Madison.


As far as the disappearing channels from the guide, the HD-5's default is non-persistant channels. It took me a while to figure out what was happening. You need to go to Preferences/Advanced (at least I think that's where it is - I'm at work now)to change it to permanent).


Then go back and enter the zipcodes and download the guide again. Let us know it that fixes it...



------------------

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*|>

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*|\\

Â*Â*Â*Â*/|Â*\\

Â*Â*Â*/Â*|__\\

Â*Â*/__|____

Â*Â*\\_ ___ _ \\


Jon Gauthier

"If I'm not sailing I'd rather be watching sailing in HD!" - Me


[This message has been edited by jonlgauthier (edited 08-28-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
I have the same problem with my Panasonic TU-DST50. Chicago has the most channels, so I rotate toward Chicago and Autoscan. Then, I manually add Ch-8, Ch-28 for Milwaukee and Ch-26, Ch-50 for Madison. Channel 19 is a problem for me in Janesville, since both Chicago WGN and Madison WMTV are on that frequency. Most days they cancel each other out and I have pretty much given up on receiving both of those stations. If channel mapping is turned on, then the first time one of those stations is locked, the virtual channel number will be assigned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK, here we go.


WJBJR:

Tried a variant and got some of the main channels but lost the sub mapping (ie 10-1,but not 10-2, 10-3 etc.) for chicago or milwaukee. Also tried different combinations with eliminating the main zip but keeping the secondary zip as milwaukee, eliminating both zips, etc. My impression, based on this repetative scanning (so slow and I am hgoing nuts) is that the guide data loads with the scan. IOW most of the newly scanned stations have at least some info after scanning(including non-dig stations, some of which I have yet to figure out where they are!!--back to the websites). Obviously I lose the non-oriented stations concurrently. I will try again tonight per your suggestion by unchecking all stations prior to scan. I wish there was some way to keep them prior to scan--but see below re Jon Gauthier.


Jon Gauthier:


Maybe that is the trick. I do not remeber ever playying(or even seeing that preference in the menu, but will try that. Hope that is the trick to maintain some persistence. The nonpersistance has been discussed before but I do not remeber seeing this idea. The whole thing would be solved with a manual add feature for channels--I cannot believe it is not there, might be related to some APG inter action/ feature?!


Allen A:


Same problem with 19, although as yet my signal strenths are in the 30's for 19, 26 and 50 out of madison without a lock. However I can get analog PBS 21 fairly clearly so I might need a higher mast. I can add 5+ feet with new guying--although corraling one of the kids to help with erection is always a trial from hell! Some of the chicago stations --3 I believe is CBS and several others do not come through, although 5, 7 and 32?(WFLD) come in OK as does 45? telemundo(-1,-2,etc). I think those are the right numbers. Can you get other Chicago stations there?


As an aside does anyone know the reliable minimum signal strenth for reliable lock. Also I have often gotten high strenths without any picture. Are the broadcaster occasionally radiating without a transmission attached?


Thanks to you guys so far, any additional thoughts and advice appreciated.


PS Also tried scanning with combinations of Milw Chicago, and Madison Zips entered but that also did not work.


Thanks Bill





------------------

Cranial Nerve II With control by III, IV, and VI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,279 Posts
Bill--

The important thing is to use NO zip code. For example, a Chicago zip might include an analog channel number that will block access to a Milwaukee DT station with the same frequency.


We have a similar situation in Miami, where, thanks to DirecTV, the zips include 2 analog stations in Key West, which is 150 miles away. They prevent us from accessing the 2 Miami DT stations on the same frequencies. As a result, we do not use a zip code.


------------------


Bill Brenner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
The problem may well be the software problem related to the Advanced Program Guide in both the HDTV set top boxes produced for Mitsubishi with the Advanced Program guide. Mits is claiming that this is problem with all Hughes based systems and that Hughes is working on a patch which should come over the air (OTA) hopefully in September. This information was communicated to me from Mitsubishi after changing the Zip codes did not work. They furnished me with a letter to this effect after over 15 calls. They are a true pain in the rear to deal with and I will not buy their products again.


Another fellow at the following post ( http://www.***************.com/cgi-b...&f=10&t=002492 ) over at the Spot! was told:

"A Mitsubishi rep by the name of David Retnoff contacted me and confirmed that there should be an update in September that will fix the problem. He said that the problem is the Satellite feed is overwriting the OTA feed and therefore blocking out the ATSC channels. He also said there are no guarantees that the update will happen in September."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Bill,


There is a manual-add feature, but it's kludgey. After you clear all the locals, you can just go down the list and manually select each channel. The receiver will attempt to tune it, and add it and map it if the receiver finds it (unless you run into to adjacent-area broadcaster problem pointed out by Bill).


Also, you might want to check the digital signal level for each channel you want for each rotor position - before you manually add the channels. Make sure you're not chasing ghosts...



------------------

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*|>

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*|\\

Â*Â*Â*Â*/|Â*\\

Â*Â*Â*/Â*|__\\

Â*Â*/__|____

Â*Â*\\_ ___ _ \\


Jon Gauthier

"If I'm not sailing I'd rather be watching sailing in HD!" - Me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,279 Posts
"I am not at all sure what to do next--any thoughts, oh gurus of the etherworld and HDTV?"


Move to another city. <G>



------------------


Bill Brenner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Originally posted by wjbjr:

"I am not at all sure what to do next--any thoughts, oh gurus of the etherworld and HDTV?"


Move to another city. <G>



BUT THEN THEY WOULD ONLY LAUGH AT ME WHILE I WORE YELLOW CHEDDAR(CHEDDAR IS NATURALLY WHITE UNLESS THE COWS HAVE BEEN INTO SUMMER BUTTERCUP,LITTLE KNOWN FACT OUTSIDE WISCONSIN)CHEESE ON MY HEAD WHILE WATCHING PACKER OR BADGER FOOTBALL GAMES.<bg> And winter is soooo predictable(sigh of envy) in Florida!


But seriously is ther any way to keep channels during a new scan tried the checking unchecking all any some etc. route no good. Any thoughts re the above and/or is there a better STB--per previous threads and having dealt with Mits Tech svc they will not be very helpful re this issue, so my only hope is you folks and hints or antenna suggestions.



Bill http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


------------------

Cranial Nerve II With control by III, IV, and VI


[This message has been edited by Bill Schmeling (edited 08-29-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
First, thanks to all for the above.


The more I realize that being an "early adopter" is kind of like alpha/beta testing eqipment/software etc., the more I wish I had never learned about HDTV--although that would have been impossible.


Spent 5-6 hours last night(finished to late to post then), and all is still USC w/o a paddle..


Tried all of the above multiple times. Tried many rotar positions in an attempt to find the sweet spot for Milwaukee(VHF and UHF, one each) and Chicago(multiple). Part of the problem is that I am getting multiple multiple signals--got WNDU 16 in Indiana(NBC), WTVO 17(ABC in Rockford), WSBT 23,, WRTV 25-1,25-2- a station mapped as NC64 on the Mits, WFLD 32-1 Chicago,NBC5 5-1, analog WFRY Green Bay, analog WLUK Green Bay, analog Grand Rapids 7WGN 19 and mapped to 9-1 chicago, WLS 7-1 chicago,a Fox at 17 analog, Milwaukee PBS 8 mapped to 10-1 to 10-4, and Milwaukee NBC 28-1 mapped to main 4-1, as well as multiple others not clear. The others were all crystal with some dropout every now and then. But NEVER all mapped at once(DAMN DAMN). Note I , at least for now have given up on Madison I NEED TO ADDRESS THE PHYSICS--HILL IN FRONT etc IN A SEPERATE THREAD), even though signal strengths of 20-50's with rotar alignment were obtained, never could get mapping. At least for Madison 26 and 19 I believe there is too much interference from channels to the south(Illinois, Indiana), not sure of channel 50 digital in Madison, but that was the weakest signal indication.SOOOOOOOO TO THE MORE IMPORTANT FIRST PROBLEM..........


I believe the problem is


1. As Bill notes for Miami, and multiple threads have addressed the interference in mapping. Also for some as Allen notes conflict with adjacents, also somewhat analagous or at least similar to this current thread
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/015811.html

2. The problem is also signal strength, I think. While the CM 77 preamp does an INCREDIBLE job--I am amazed at the number of OTA in-the clear analogs and digitals--but it is probably swamping the locals i.e overpowering. I probably can fix that with a variable attenuator since I could still receive the Milwaukee 8VHF digital 180 deg off phase, the Milw digital 28 was more of a problem. It seemed that the mapping was not correct(ie subs vanished etc) unless rotar was strictly Milw aligned, but then no Chicago. Reception also suffered for Milw when these were mapped concurrent with Chicago--not at all sure wht that would occur!


I guess at several solutions.


1. Seperate antennas for Milwaukee and Chicago, maybe Madison. But even with a joiner or a switcher the problems re mapping are going to be present without a manual add feature. In other words to map both I need to amplify Chicago which swamps Milwaukee from the Chicago Antenna,Unless I bandpass filter the Milwaukee channels on the Chicago antenna while simultaneously allowing the signal from Milwaukee via the seperate antenna and scanning using both antennas active. The problem with switching, physiacally the easiest, is how to scan in bothj at the same time. Does anyone actually know what the STB does while scanning? Is it similar to tuners "advancing up" the channels? Does it cycle back and forth, ie 2-99,99-2, 2-99 etc

during the scan. The exact process has bearing on the possible temporal sequence of antenna alignment or active antenna if two are used.


I tried rotaring during scan and that never worked.


I cannot believe a peice of equipment was designed without an adequate user input interface. Which other STBs allow channel assignment manually? The thought of rescanning, waiting etc, each time I want to switch from Milw to Chicago makes me ill.


Finally a software fix might eliminate some of this problem but probably not all. A design to manually enter channels with a scan if wanted, lock on the strongest signal( with digital priority over analog), then updating the guide based on stored channels would eliminate all of this.


I am not at all sure what to do next--any thoughts, oh gurus of the etherworld and HDTV??


Bill


------------------

Cranial Nerve II With control by III, IV, and VI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well I sorta got some of both Milwaukee and Chicago channels to concurrently map by intense trial and error of rotar position and rotation during mapping. No Zip codes entered. THANKS FOR THE ADVICE ABOVE. But in so doing I lost most of the sub channels (-2,-3 etc) which is a real problem(I watch a lot of the Milw PBS subchannel content, even though not HDTV). Why would the subs disappear, but the -1 digital assignment remain? I donnot understand that at all, since if the signal is sensed, it is sensed by the STB at an adequate mapping intensity I would guess.

And, of course, as always (unless somebody knows different, simply keying in the channels does nothing--an incredible design flaw on the Mits, and I assume all the clone Hughes STBs.


Does keying in of a station assignment work on any STBs? Can any units accept manually adding channels? I would be totally willing to purchase another STB if only these features were present. Does the DISH 6000 accept such assignments manually?


Puzzeled by design! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif


Bill


------------------

Cranial Nerve II With control by III, IV, and VI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,279 Posts
Bill--

Are you certain that the missing sub-channels were broadcasting when you scanned? If they were, they should have shown up on the local channel list, albeit perhaps not checked.


You are still welcome to come south. Leave your cheesehead and snowshoes behind, but bring lots of bratwurst.



------------------


Bill Brenner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
887 Posts
Hi Bill,


Sounds like you're gettin' your feet wet now!


A lot of DT stations are playing around with multicasting(those dash numbered sub channels).As long as you're getting the main channel,with good signal strength,you'll get whatever they're broadcasting at the time.It could be anything from -1 to -6 in some cases.


I'm not familiar with these new auto-mapping boxes such as your new Mits with the APG feature.


I've been using a DTC-100,which has an automapping feature that can be defeated.I always use the "defeat " setting.It works much better that way.And you can manually add whatever channels you want to add to the program guide.


If you had a DTC-100 you could use a small antenna pointed towards Milwaukee(attic maybe?) hooked to one of the antenna inputs(it has two inputs).Then use an outdoor/preamped antenna hooked to the other input for Madison,Chicago,etc. I use mine this way and it works really well.The Digital channels will stay in the guide as long as an analog channel doesn't come along and "bump" it out,so to speak Also,each input has its own channel guide,and the inputs can be toggled back and forth on the remote control.


Just some thoughts.



Good Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Just to reiterate what others have said, many stations seem to be playing with mulitcasting and the sub channels are very unreliable. I've seen them come and go on a daily basis. For me to get both of Sacramentos and San Fransicos channels in my Mits HD5 I just kept waiting for a evening when the Bay Area channels were maxed out (I live in Sac.) and did a scan. Since then I have had no problems with them in the guide, even though I only get the bay area channels about 2-3 times a week.


You also mentioned minimum locking strength and such. My box will lock on a signal of 5, but I wont get a picture until about the 60's.


Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks Steve max and Bill


Searching and perusing other posts it sounds like I am not the only one who will have to rescan regularly, dependent on signal direction, what is up and on, station strenth(topo conditions, Phase of the moon, who is President etc..


Not pretty--adding and subtracting channels manually would be an improvement since rescanning takes soooooooo long. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Another thing is the reception of HDTV using the Mits for cable transmitting 8VSB. From what I understand here in Milw TW is transmitting HBO and Show but up at 700 or so on their boxes (SA 2000, I think). There is no way to read this on the mits, conflicts with DTV mapping.


Bill


------------------

Cranial Nerve II With control by III, IV, and VI
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top