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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Mal-X Gen II that I will put into the NeoDan End Table Max. I'll likely build a DIY HPF around 8-9 hz and make a plug to use as sealed if ported doesn't sound good to me. I have an EP2500.


If this doesn't satisfy my "need for feel", I may be adding a second sub (eyeing an AE TD15m) and run a LPF on the Mal-x at ~60hz, letting the two subs do their respective duties.


Tentative plan was to run both off of the EP2500 in stereo. This is a very small room that opens into a larger area, so I was assuming power should be sufficient...? I know 650w gives the Mal-x little headroom.


Also, it seems I'd need to have a LPF on the Mal-x that is different from the td15m. The receiver crossover can be set as high as 250hz, which the td15m would handle, but would likely be too high for the Mal-x.


How do those with this type of Sub setup run your systems? I assume you just get separate amps? How do you get separate LP filters to each? Thanks in advance.
 

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The TD15M is not a good subwoofer driver at all IMO, its not design to go that low at all, its design to be incredible up past 1KHz.


The AV15 series would be a better choice for mid bass along with many other choices that do mid bass without being $300!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earcotton /forum/post/17019843


I have a Mal-X Gen II that I will put into the NeoDan End Table Max. I'll likely build a DIY HPF around 8-9 hz and make a plug to use as sealed if ported doesn't sound good to me. I have an EP2500.


If this doesn't satisfy my "need for feel", I may be adding a second sub (eyeing an AE TD15m) and run a LPF on the Mal-x at ~60hz, letting the two subs do their respective duties.


Tentative plan was to run both off of the EP2500 in stereo. This is a very small room that opens into a larger area, so I was assuming power should be sufficient...? I know 650w gives the Mal-x little headroom.


Also, it seems I'd need to have a LPF on the Mal-x that is different from the td15m. The receiver crossover can be set as high as 250hz, which the td15m would handle, but would likely be too high for the Mal-x.


How do those with this type of Sub setup run your systems? I assume you just get separate amps? How do you get separate LP filters to each? Thanks in advance.

The "power" solution would be to pickup a Behringer DCX2496 (external crossover). You would run the signal into the DCX which would split the signal for each sub and allow you to set the filters separately for each sub (it has low pass, high pass, parametric EQ, delay settings, pretty much everything you could need).


A cheaper alternative would be the Behringer CX2310 crossover, it doesn't have anywhere near the flexibility of the DCX but it's workable for subwoofer. Whether or not it will work though would depend on specifically how you want to set them up.


A third solution would be to use the DSP1124 or FBQ2496 (Behringer Feedback Destroyer, old or new model). These don't have high-pass/low-pass filters but you can sort of make them with PEQ filters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/17019962


The TD15M is not a good subwoofer driver at all IMO, its not design to go that low at all, its design to be incredible up past 1KHz.


The AV15 series would be a better choice for mid bass along with many other choices that do mid bass without being $300!!

Thanks for the input Penngray. If I did get a second sub, it would only be doing ~60-200+hz. You don't think the TD15M would do this? Power efficiency is something I'd like to find while maintaining accurate sound reproduction. AES seems to have a reputation for quality products. The $250 AV15's aren't far from the $300 TD15's, but appear to be significantly less efficient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 /forum/post/17019973


The "power" solution would be to pickup a Behringer DCX2496 (external crossover). You would run the signal into the DCX which would split the signal for each sub and allow you to set the filters separately for each sub (it has low pass, high pass, parametric EQ, delay settings, pretty much everything you could need).


A cheaper alternative would be the Behringer CX2310 crossover, it doesn't have anywhere near the flexibility of the DCX but it's workable for subwoofer. Whether or not it will work though would depend on specifically how you want to set them up.


A third solution would be to use the DSP1124 or FBQ2496 (Behringer Feedback Destroyer, old or new model). These don't have high-pass/low-pass filters but you can sort of make them with PEQ filters.

I do need an EQ, as I do not have one atm. Thanks Lennon_68, I'll consider these.


I'll also search on Ricci's posts and see if he has stated how his system is setup, as he is using a similar model with his XXX. I thought his mid-bass was coming from his mains, however?


On a side note, would the LP filter in the Behringer's mentioned be better than my 3809? I know "better" is a poor term. "Lower noise floor" or "lower distortion" is maybe the terminology I should use?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earcotton /forum/post/17020171


Thanks for the input Penngray. If I did get a second sub, it would only be doing ~60-200+hz. You don't think the TD15M would do this? Power efficiency is something I'd like to find while maintaining accurate sound reproduction. AES seems to have a reputation for quality products. The $250 AV15's aren't far from the $300 TD15's, but appear to be significantly less efficient.

It was my understanding the TD series was a great midbass driver. I have plans to buy some of the 18s myself to compare to some 18sounds.


Edit: Dont forget the EP2500 has selectable 30hz and 50hz hp filters.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earcotton /forum/post/17020171


Thanks for the input Penngray. If I did get a second sub, it would only be doing ~60-200+hz. You don't think the TD15M would do this? Power efficiency is something I'd like to find while maintaining accurate sound reproduction. AES seems to have a reputation for quality products. The $250 AV15's aren't far from the $300 TD15's, but appear to be significantly less efficient.

The M series is only more effecience because the laws of physics dictates it will be and its designed really for 80Hz and above actually. It only has an xmax of 6 mm!!


If you really are set on a TD 15" driver then the TD15H or TD15S is better for your needs. The have more then double the Xmax and their Fs is more then an octave below your needs.


Also if you are building a midbass box and you want a crossover at 60Hz, you really should design the box to have an F3 @ 40Hz. You should model the differences to understand why.


Im also not trying to push you away from John's drivers...Im a BIG FANBOY (others will tell you)
I own 2 TD12S, 2 TD12M and 2 AV15Xs
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/17020663


The M series is only more effecience because the laws of physics dictates it will be and its designed really for 80Hz and above actually. It only has an xmax of 6 mm!!


If you really are set on a TD 15" driver then the TD15H or TD15S is better for your needs. The have more then double the Xmax and their Fs is more then an octave below your needs.


Also if you are building a midbass box and you want a crossover at 60Hz, you really should design the box to have an F3 @ 40Hz. You should model the differences to understand why.


Im also not trying to push you away from John's drivers...Im a BIG FANBOY (others will tell you)
I own 2 TD12S, 2 TD12M and 2 AV15Xs

I appreciate your input, penngray, due to your real-world exposure to this hobby. I like seeing suggestions, as I am not set on the TD15M. I do not even know if I'll need a second sub, but I do like to feel my bass.


I have not built my mains yet, but they will be Zaph's ZD5's. I doubt they will be mid-bass monsters, so I'll likely cross them high.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/17019962


The AV15 series would be a better choice for mid bass along with many other choices that do mid bass without being $300!!

what about the td15-h?


for an enclosure of twice the size, it appears almost twice as efficient, which saves you twice the amp, which is much less than the cost differential of the driver.


it doesn't have the xmax for the av15, but is that really important? model it up, check the max spl, and get back to me. ;-)
 

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LTD02, check the 2nd detailed reply. I agree that the TD15H might be viable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 /forum/post/17023479


what about the td15-h?


for an enclosure of twice the size, it appears almost twice as efficient, which saves you twice the amp, which is much less than the cost differential of the driver.


it doesn't have the xmax for the av15, but is that really important? model it up, check the max spl, and get back to me. ;-)

I'm pushing for efficiency, as, unlike many around here, I believe 650w/channel is a lot of power.


I told a friend of mine this weekend that my amp had ~650w/channel and his response was a spirited "WHAT?!" I don't even feel right using one, EP2500 just for bass.
 

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You might also wanna go sealed with a TD15S. 60Hz is cool for that.... while maintaining 92-93dB sens. John said the Xmax is more like 14mm than 10mm stated. Anyway you are still pretty much below Xmax with 600w...even with sealed.


MAke it vented first, then you can also opt for sealed operation....in case mating with the Mal-X gets problematic.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earcotton /forum/post/17024046


I'm pushing for efficiency, as, unlike many around here, I believe 650w/channel is a lot of power.


I told a friend of mine this weekend that my amp had ~650w/channel and his response was a spirited "WHAT?!" I don't even feel right using one, EP2500 just for bass.

that is, in part, why i suggested the td15h!


a 5 cu ft enclosure tuned to 30hz will get you over 120 db from about 35hz up with 450 watts.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earcotton /forum/post/17024046


I'm pushing for efficiency, as, unlike many around here, I believe 650w/channel is a lot of power.


I told a friend of mine this weekend that my amp had ~650w/channel and his response was a spirited "WHAT?!" I don't even feel right using one, EP2500 just for bass.

Im with you, I have been changing all my speakers, designs to only need 100W
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/17025348


Im with you, I have been changing all my speakers, designs to only need 100W

IB is how you manage this in the bass region at your house, correct? Do you provide your family and neighbors with earplugs?



I tried to treat my basement to limit the bass that travels out of the basement. IB would make treatment almost impossible...?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 /forum/post/17025087


that is, in part, why i suggested the td15h!


a 5 cu ft enclosure tuned to 30hz will get you over 120 db from about 35hz up with 450 watts.

Would you suggest going ported/PR vs sealed given the frequency range this sub would run? Would sealed even prevent localization given 200+hz would likely be produced from this box?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earcotton /forum/post/17025604


IB is how you manage this in the bass region at your house, correct? Do you provide your family and neighbors with earplugs?



I tried to treat my basement to limit the bass that travels out of the basement. IB would make treatment almost impossible...?

Family room IB doesnt get used much more. The HT Room ported subs still does though. If you are making a sound proof room then you need a sound proof room for the IB backwave also. I would build ported boxes into the wall if that is the case, I did that in my HT room (11 cuft boxes do not take up any room).




Im always looking for that 100W subwoofer solution but the laws of physics tell me that Im going to be waiting a long time
 

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from 50hz up, the enclosure doesn't really dominate. you might get a little bit from a ported high tune, but we are talking about just a couple db.


i'm not sure what you mean by preventing localization. once you get much above a 4th order cross at 80h (thx spec), localization may be an issue. if you can co-locate your subs and your mains, a much higher cross becomes possible. just be aware that the lower end of most male vocals is roughly 150hz, so you don't want that being modulated by bass effects.
 
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