[Emmanuel Piat]

Hi !


The new filter IviAudioProcess.ax in WinDVD4 seems really interesting.


Apparently it is a post processor filter used after "InterVideo Audio Decoder" : this is the way graphedit suggests automatically when I try to connect DVD navigator to it.


The options of this filter are very rich : 2 to 8 audio ouputs and many many possible audio filters :


- Chorus

- Compressor

- Distortion

- Echo

- Flanger

- ParamEq

- I3DL2Reverb

- Gargle

- WavesReveb

- InterVideo DSP DMO

- Intervideo EXP DMO

- InterVideo timestretch DMO

- TruSurround XT Encoder


each one with many possible options if you select them with the append button ! For instance, InterVideoEXP DMO has the following options :


- Expansion : On / Off

- Algorithm : ICE/Prologic/Prologic2


ICE :

Surround Effect : 0 Ã* 100


Prologic :

Disable autobalance : Yes/No

Wide surround mode : Yes/No

Ouput channel config : 3/0 (3-stereo), 2/1 (phantom center), 3/1, 2/2 (phantom cen, split surr.), 3/2 (split surround)



Prologic2 :

Disable autobalance : Yes/No

Surround chan. shelf filter : Yes/No

Rs polarity inversion : Yes/No

Panorama mode : Yes/No

Output channel config : 3/0 (3-stereo), 2/2 (phantom center), 3/2

Dimension setting : 0 (most surround), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (most center)

Decode mode : Pro Logic emulation mode, Virtual compatible mode, Music mode, Movie/standard mode, Matrix mode, Custom (override) mode

Center width control setting : 0 (no spreading), 1 (mionimal spreading), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (full phantom - no C couput)


So I tried to use this filter with cineplayer v4 for the video thanks to this graph :


DefineFilter(iviaudio.ax)

DefineFilter(IviAudioProcess.ax)

DefineFilter(dscinemvideodecoder.dll)

LoadFilter({79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767},Default DirectSound Device)

LoadFilter({70E102B0-5556-11CE-97C0-00AA0055595A},Video Renderer)

LoadFilter({7E2E0DC1-31FD-11D2-9C21-00104B3801F6},InterVideo Audio Decoder)

LoadFilter({0BEDA08A-C516-4A44-9141-7B2CF28975EA},InterVideo Audio Processor)

LoadFilter({CD8743A1-3736-11D0-9E69-00C04FD7C15B},Overlay Mixer)

LoadFilter({6E8D4A20-310C-11D0-B79A-00AA003767A7},Line 21 Decoder)

LoadFilter({4F8BDCBE-1CE2-4496-8CFC-5691AA254E47},RAVISENT Cinemaster DS Video Decoder)

LoadFilter({9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48},DVD Navigator)

ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,Video,RAVISENT Cinemaster DS Video Decoder,Video in)

ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,AC3,InterVideo Audio Decoder,In)

ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,SubPicture,RAVISENT Cinemaster DS Video Decoder,Subpicture in)

ConnectPin(InterVideo Audio Decoder,Out,InterVideo Audio Processor,XForm IN)

ConnectPin(InterVideo Audio Processor,XForm OUT,Default DirectSound Device,Audio Input pin (rendered))

ConnectPin(RAVISENT Cinemaster DS Video Decoder,Video Out,Overlay Mixer,Input0)

ConnectPin(RAVISENT Cinemaster DS Video Decoder,CC Out,Line 21 Decoder,In)

ConnectPin(Line 21 Decoder,Out,Overlay Mixer,Input2)

ConnectPin(Overlay Mixer,Output,Video Renderer,In)


Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I got a "Invalid floating point operation" error in ZP when I try to play a DVD.


Any ideas ?


Emmanuel

 

[kauffmbe]

I got the same response and I don't know why. Also, the button to turn expansion (aka ICE and DPL I or II) on in the EXP DMO effect filter is greyed out. I have tryed to get this to work, but so far no dice. It seems kind of strange that it won't load up in zoom, b/c it loads fine in graphedit, and isn't zoom merely reproducing the same filtergraph?

 

[Emmanuel Piat]

Blight, have you some ideas ? Is it a ZP problem ?


Emmanuel

 

[Blight]

I've been slightly reluctant to install WinDVD 4 as I heard it has a phone-home interface built in. While I don't mind a program that phones home to check for updates, I feel uncomfertable not knowing exactly what it does.


If you get a constant floating point error, the question who's causing it, the filters or ZP. If it's ZP it's something I may be able to fix, although I find it a bit odd as ZP does in fact use the same filtergraph creation. The problem may be unrelated though, perhaps with this filter installed, it misreports the timeline or other factor which may confuse ZP.

 

[Brian Hampton]

Hey Blight,


I installed WinDVD 4 trail and it hosed both of my computers badly. On one machine it won't play correctly (video errors), on the other WinDVD worked but all the other players had problems after the install.


Because I couldn't solve the problems caused by WinDVD 4.0 on my dedicated machine, I had to "nuke and pave." In other words I had to re-partition, re-format, and re-install.


On my non-dedicated machine (my home PC not my HTPC) all my dvd players including WinDVD 4.0 have problems except for PowerDVD. ZP is not working with any combination of filters after this install.


I also hate the notion of it dialing out (or trying to.)


Maybe I'm special and no one else has had these problems but that demo wrecked both of my computers and I don't suggest trying it.


-Brian


Edit: FYI - Win98SE, BX mainboard, Intel CPU, Radeon LE, Aureal 1500

 

[Emmanuel Piat]

Blight, I think you can install windvd4, don't launch it and use only the filters.


On my PC with my Delta 1010 (PIII, asus motherboard, Radeon 32 SDR), I have PowerDVD deluxe, WinDVD 3.1, winDVD4, ATI 4.1, ATI 7.6, and ZP.


And all these softwares works perfertly (nevertheless my partition is saved with Norton Ghost, I am not completely crazy ).


I have also another question : I have made a long comparison between powerdvd deluxe and the audio filter of windvd (used with ZP) in 5.1 configuration with my 1010 (I will post a thread on this later).


With DD decoding, my conclusion is that the audio filter of windvd gives by default a compressed sound (for instance when the plane skim the ground at the beginning of "Space Cowboys" Z2, the sound seems ridiculous with WinDVD compared to powerdvd).


Of course, I did the necessary theaking in dvdgenie, but I don't know if the filter read the windvd parameters in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\Software when it is used in ZP.


So my question is : it is possible to force the audio filter to use the full range mode in ZP (like it is now possible in the "External" tab to force the number of channels, weave, boob, etc.).


Thanks,

Emmanuel

 

[kauffmbe]

Blight, I'm finding that more and more programs send something out when you first start up. Usually, its just a version checker, but thats why I have a firewall anyway to cut all of that stuff off. WinDVD 4 runs fine with its output blocked in Norton Personal Firewall. Besides, you don't even have to run the WinDVD.exe to use the filters, and rest assuredly that they are not sending out anything.


To change the topic back to the original question, I can't figure out why the filter can be put in a Graphedit graph fine, but gives the floating point error in Zoom either. It would be great if someone could look at this, as it is well beyond my meager expertise.

 

[Phat Phreddy]

Emmanuel, very keen to hear your comments on sound quality... Also have some detailed questions on using a 1010 or a 1010LT with these drivers that I will post a thread soon...

 

[Emmanuel Piat]

Here are the conclusions of some experiments I made with the audio filters of many version of WinDVD and powerDVD deluxe.


I have a Delta 1010 with the last beta drivers including the bass managment, Win ME, PIII @ 875 MHz on asus motherboard, 256 Mo.


I only test the 6 channels decoding quality.


DOLBY DIGITAL - 6 channel decoding

==================================


The windvd filters 3.0.55.0 et 3.1.58.16, when used in ZP, load their parameters in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\InterVideo\\WinDVD and the audio compression is given by "COMPMODE".


DVDGenie proposes Full Range (COMPMODE = 2) et Amplified (COMPMODE = 3).


With Amplified, I have to do the following adjustments in the Delta control panel in order to have the same sound level in powerdvd and in ZP with windvd audio filter :


- powerDVD : master Volume on 0 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost 0dB

- winDVD : master Volume on -17 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost +9dB (the LFE is really compressed !)


With Full Range, you need to make the following adjustments :


- powerDVD : master Volume sur 0 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost 0dB

- winDVD : master Volume sur -5 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost 0dB


When listening with ZP, the only difference between Full Range and Amplified is the sound level (you need to reduce the sound by -5 dB in one case and by -17 in the other case) and less LFE compression in Full Range compared to Amplified. Nevertheless, in both cases, one can says that there is unfortunately a compression of the dynamic !!!


To be sure of this, I put PowerDVD in compressed DD mode rather than Full DD range and it gives exactly the same "weak" sound than windvd in Full Range when the plane skims the ground at the beginning of Space Cowboys (Z2).


When used with ZP, the windvd audio filters 3.1.91.33 et 3.2.41.133 don't take into account the value of COMPMODE and are always set to the Amplified mode !


The windvd 4.0 audio filter loads its parameters in :

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\InterVideo\\WinDVD4


"COMPMODE" is set by default to 2, but if you set the audio mode in windvd4 to normal, theater or late night, only the value of ENVIRONMENT is changed. When used with ZP, the audio filter of windvd4 doesn't take into account the value of COMPMODE and ENVIRONMENT and is always set to the Amplified mode !!!


So, to my mind, the audio filters 3.1.91.33 and 3.2.41.133 and windvd4 are useless (to much compression in the LFE)


DTS - 6 channel decoding

========================


You need new adjustments to have the same sound levels in powerdvd and windvd with the filters 3.0.55.0 and 3.1.58.16 and COMPMODE = 2 (Full range) :


- powerDVD : master Volume on 0 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost 0dB

- winDVD : master Volume on -12 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost +0dB


I found windvd as good as powerdvd in several DTS Z2 DVD (U571 for instance).



Conclusion :

============


DTS : the best config is ZP + video cinemaster 4 + audio windvd : really good


DD : it depends if you take care of the picture (ZP + video cinemaster 4 + audio windvd), or the sound (powerdvd)


Emmanuel

 

[Emmanuel Piat]

Blight : I give you the graph for the very old version of cinemaster included with ATI 4.1.


it needs DXVA set to off to work properly. What I love in this filter is its smouth playback and its stereo downmix in Full range :


DefineFilter(QIDVDF.AX)

LoadFilter({595E37C1-A479-11D1-BC3C-006097B18ABC},Software CineMaster(TM) DVD)

LoadFilter({70E102B0-5556-11CE-97C0-00AA0055595A},Video Renderer)

LoadFilter({CD8743A1-3736-11D0-9E69-00C04FD7C15B},Overlay Mixer)

LoadFilter({6E8D4A20-310C-11D0-B79A-00AA003767A7},Line 21 Decoder)

LoadFilter({9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48},DVD Navigator)

ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,Video,Software CineMaster(TM) DVD,Video IN)

ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,AC3,Software CineMaster(TM) DVD,Audio IN)

ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,SubPicture,Software CineMaster(TM) DVD,SubPicture IN)

ConnectPin(Software CineMaster(TM) DVD,Video OUT,Overlay Mixer,Input0)

ConnectPin(Software CineMaster(TM) DVD,CC OUT,Line 21 Decoder,In)

ConnectPin(Line 21 Decoder,Out,Overlay Mixer,Input2)

ConnectPin(Overlay Mixer,Output,Video Renderer,In)


Emmanuel

 

[Emmanuel Piat]

Last night I tested the two "special" values 0 and 1 for COMPMODE with filter 3.1.58.16


COMPMODE = 0 :


- powerDVD : master Volume on 0 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost 0dB

- winDVD : master Volume on -10 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost +4dB


COMPMODE = 1 :


- powerDVD : master Volume on 0 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost 0dB

- winDVD : master Volume on -11.5 dB, LFE +10dB, Boost +6dB


Emmanuel

 

[Blight]

Emmanuel:

What is this graph for, I don't see any audio renderer ... is it AC3 or something? What should it be listed as in ZP?

 

[Emmanuel Piat]

>What is this graph for, I don't see any audio renderer ...


In fact, QIDVDF.AX has built in audio and video decoders : in the filter properties, you can configure both audio and video.


I use this filter when I listens DVD with headphone (pure stereo, no dolby headphone decoding) because on my system, when I use cineplayer V4 filters for audio and video I got a jerky video with the Delta 1010... The filter at fault is not the video one but the audio because if I choose cineplayer V4 for video and windvd for audio, all is correct...


QIDVDF.AX is fully compatible with the settings done in dvdgenie v4.05 but needs DXVA to be set to off in order to work correctly.


Emmanuel