As a side note... I have run tests with some SM58s and a cheaper branded mic, however the audio only seems to come through on the cheaper mic (which has a switch). Is this possible with the 58s?
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How to use microphones as functional speakers?!
Hi there,
I am looking to use a large number of microphones (dynamic cardioids) as speakers for an upcoming sculptural exhibition. How can I increase the gain on these to actually be functional?
I am currently running them through my Focusrite 18i20 into Reaper (as they will be effected as part of a sound piece) and using multi channel out, however the level is too low (obviously from impedance issues).
Basically my question is... How can I make this work? They don't need to be loud, just clearly audible when in proximity as they will be hanging from the roof.
Many thanks!
I am looking to use a large number of microphones (dynamic cardioids) as speakers for an upcoming sculptural exhibition. How can I increase the gain on these to actually be functional?
I am currently running them through my Focusrite 18i20 into Reaper (as they will be effected as part of a sound piece) and using multi channel out, however the level is too low (obviously from impedance issues).
Basically my question is... How can I make this work? They don't need to be loud, just clearly audible when in proximity as they will be hanging from the roof.
Many thanks!
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Why not hang small speakers instead? You're likely to blow a lot of mics... They are designed to sense small sonic perturbations, not create big ones.
You probably blazing new territory on this one, but I agree that impedance is probably the issue. The SM58 is 300 ohms impedance. Perhaps Don can help me on this, but as I see it, one of those mics connected to standard 100 watt 8-ohm amplifier is going to suck it down to maybe 2-3 watts. Granted, it probably only takes a fraction of a watt to generate the low-volume output you want.
Check the specs on the cheap mic you used, but I expect its impedance is significantly lower than the SM58. You might have to just go with a bunch of those instead of the 58 to get this to work.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Check the specs on the cheap mic you used, but I expect its impedance is significantly lower than the SM58. You might have to just go with a bunch of those instead of the 58 to get this to work.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
The SM58 is a poor microphone and an even worse speaker. The best thing one can say about the SM58 is that you can drive nails with it, making it good for "mike drops."
Go with Don on this one.
Go with Don on this one.
I didn't check the impedance though I've seen a bazillion or two SM58/SM57 mics through the years. I started to do the math but, no... Just... no. There are a lot of good reasons why this is a bad idea and flat-out will not work with some (most good) mics. In The Olden Days we'd do things like this using small cheap electret mics from Radio Shack and Other Fine Electronics Boutiques. It was neat to talk into a mic and have it talk back at you. It was also a good way to help subsidize the cheap electret mic business. Obviously that was not enough to keep RS alive...
Can you explain why you want to use a mic as a speaker? What I would do is grab a bunch of little speakers maybe from Parts Express: https://www.parts-express.com/cat/mini-speakers/27 You can use a speaker as a (poor) mic if you need that.
What do you plan to drive them with? I think the Focusrite is an interface, no power amp in it? And AFAIK Reaper is a DAW though I haven't touched it in ages. So I would have expected Focusrite --> Reaper --> power amp.
I'm confused. Not unusual, mind you... - Don
Can you explain why you want to use a mic as a speaker? What I would do is grab a bunch of little speakers maybe from Parts Express: https://www.parts-express.com/cat/mini-speakers/27 You can use a speaker as a (poor) mic if you need that.
What do you plan to drive them with? I think the Focusrite is an interface, no power amp in it? And AFAIK Reaper is a DAW though I haven't touched it in ages. So I would have expected Focusrite --> Reaper --> power amp.
I'm confused. Not unusual, mind you... - Don
Hi Don thanks for your reply!
Could you explain how you were able to talk into the mic and have it talk back to you? Sounds interesting.
I am wanting to use mics as speakers to tie into the sculptural exhibition that I am working with. They will be dispersing an 8 channel sound piece across the space by hanging from the roof above individual sculptures, almost whispering to them you could say...
They will be part of a live feedback loop within the space. At the moment they are not being driven by anything as I fear that nay extra gain will simply distort the sound. Is this true?
This might seem like a silly question... but what would happen if I was to get a Y splitter and plug the mic into both the input and output of my interface?
Thank you!
Could you explain how you were able to talk into the mic and have it talk back to you? Sounds interesting.
I am wanting to use mics as speakers to tie into the sculptural exhibition that I am working with. They will be dispersing an 8 channel sound piece across the space by hanging from the roof above individual sculptures, almost whispering to them you could say...
They will be part of a live feedback loop within the space. At the moment they are not being driven by anything as I fear that nay extra gain will simply distort the sound. Is this true?
This might seem like a silly question... but what would happen if I was to get a Y splitter and plug the mic into both the input and output of my interface?
Thank you!
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/13700000/KABOOM-expositions-13710481-800-600.jpg. . . but what would happen if I was to get a Y splitter and plug the mic into both the input and output of my interface?
[not literally]
Maybe you could do something like use a transducer/exciter mounted to a panel in the ceiling. If the space has something like a drop ceiling you could mount the transducer/exciter to the back side and use the panel itself as the "speaker" the whole set up could be completely hidden. Are you the same guy that was posting hear about doing a massive low frequency sound installation in a art exhibit?Hi Don thanks for your reply!
Could you explain how you were able to talk into the mic and have it talk back to you? Sounds interesting.
I am wanting to use mics as speakers to tie into the sculptural exhibition that I am working with. They will be dispersing an 8 channel sound piece across the space by hanging from the roof above individual sculptures, almost whispering to them you could say...
They will be part of a live feedback loop within the space. At the moment they are not being driven by anything as I fear that nay extra gain will simply distort the sound. Is this true?
This might seem like a silly question... but what would happen if I was to get a Y splitter and plug the mic into both the input and output of my interface?
Thank you!
I could but let's set that aside for a moment. I am still unclear (just to avoid calling myself "clueless") about exactly what you want to do. What do you mean by "live feedback"? You want to send out sound but also "hear" people (or whatever) simultaneously? And use what they say to modulate the sound?Hi Don thanks for your reply!
Could you explain how you were able to talk into the mic and have it talk back to you? Sounds interesting.
I am wanting to use mics as speakers to tie into the sculptural exhibition that I am working with. They will be dispersing an 8 channel sound piece across the space by hanging from the roof above individual sculptures, almost whispering to them you could say...
They will be part of a live feedback loop within the space. At the moment they are not being driven by anything as I fear that nay extra gain will simply distort the sound. Is this true?
This might seem like a silly question... but what would happen if I was to get a Y splitter and plug the mic into both the input and output of my interface?
Thank you!
If you have a bunch of mics and drivers around going at the same time then feedback is a problem you will have to deal with. There is a delay from the mic through the electronics back to the speaker and that delay causes a phase shift in the sound that is picked up. That leads to positive reinforcement at some frequencies leading to feedback -- loud squeals and such. Pass a mic near a monitor and it will happen...
The normal way to have simultaneous two-way interaction is to place microphones and speakers appropriately, and use the right sort of mics and speaker enclosures/waveguides to avoid feedback (undesired interaction leading to loud squeals). On stage monitors are used to provide audible feedback to the performers, and their mics are chosen to have a directional pattern and then placed such that the monitor speaker is in a mic's null (minimum sensitivity) direction to minimize local feedback.
Back to what I did: I did not need simultaneous transmission and reception so the mic was in listening mode until someone spoke, then a switch back inside the electronics changed from listening to transmitting to send a response back. I (we, I was not the sole designer/installer) used both electret mics and small (~2" IIRC) speakers for this. I really wish I could remember which worked better; I think we ended up with mostly speakers used as mics instead of mics used as speakers but it was 40+ years ago.
Are you hanging an array of transducers? If so, you could intersperse mics and speakers to accomplish what you want, I think.
Still confused - Don
(This is the sort of thing that could probably be solved in ten minutes face-to-face; sometimes the Internet is best at obfuscating things.)
Remember intercoms? Our second house had them in every room: 8-inch speakers mounted in the wall that, with the flick of a switch, would become microphones for housewide communication.
Speakers perform better as microphones than microphones perform as speakers. Which suggests, as Don did earlier, that your exhibit would be better off with small speakers operating as microphones than vice-versa.
Speakers perform better as microphones than microphones perform as speakers. Which suggests, as Don did earlier, that your exhibit would be better off with small speakers operating as microphones than vice-versa.
Yes, in a pinch a speaker, capable of moving lots of air, can act as a mic however a little dinky microphone makes for a terrible speaker because its tiny diaphragm and limited excursions {in out travel distance] can't move much air hence it works terribly as a full range speaker. [It might work so-so as a tweeter though, where you don't need to move much air.]
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Never done it but I've read that large speakers can be used as infrasonic mics.
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Never done it but I've read that large speakers can be used as infrasonic mics.
I seem to recall through the dark mists of time that, in my younger days working on preamps for SM57/58, those mikes performed best looking at a 1k ohm input impedance.I didn't check the impedance though I've seen a bazillion or two SM58/SM57 mics through the years.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
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