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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am one of those HDTV owners with a CRT HDTV that supports 480p/1080i native. My TV will upscale 720p to 1080i but only on the digital TV input (which is connected to satellite box).


I know the Xbox360 will supposedly support 720p/1080i on every game but does anyone know how that 1080i image is being created. Is it just a 540p image line doubled or is it a true 1080i image using each line?


A 540p image line doubled would not give the same detail as a 1080i image but if I understand correctly if they could do 1080i then why does the Xbox360 not support 1080p as the xbox360 would have to deinterlace the image for 1080i anyways?


My question basically boils down to will the 1080i image look truly high def or I am I just getting a watered down 720p->540p->1080i image?
 

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MS mandated that all games be a minimum of 720p (that said I believe they are letting square/enix slide with FF only being 480p).. Some developer may do the higher res of 1080i if they would like to.


I believe the xbox360 will also have the ability to scale any game to any output you desire, meaning if you set it to 1080i the xbox360 will scale the image to 1080i and output in 1080i to your set. If you set to 720p the signal will be sent as 720p to your set and your set will do the scaling to 1080i (or 540p if you chose to on your set). So whatever component (TV or xbox360) does the better job at scaling the image is something you should experiment with. In the end both ways should look amazing and I'd be surprised if you could see much of a difference.
 

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The answer to this question is WAY overdue. I cannot believe it has not come up in any interviews given how many 1080i only sets there are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
MS mandated that all games be a minimum of 720p (that said I believe they are letting square/enix slide with FF only being 480p).. Some developer may do the higher res of 1080i if they would like to.


I believe the xbox360 will also have the ability to scale any game to any output you desire, meaning if you set it to 1080i the xbox360 will scale the image to 1080i and output in 1080i to your set. If you set to 720p the signal will be sent as 720p to your set and your set will do the scaling to 1080i (or 540p if you chose to on your set). So whatever component (TV or xbox360) does the better job at scaling the image is something you should experiment with. In the end both ways should look amazing and I'd be surprised if you could see much of a difference.
But that still doesn't answer HOW it does the scaling. Basically is it line doubled 540p or is it an interlaced 1080i? There is a difference in clarity between the two.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshuha
But that still doesn't answer HOW it does the scaling. Basically is it line doubled 540p or is it an interlaced 1080i? There is a difference in clarity between the two.
Thats what we do not know. There has been speculation only.
 

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I was just posting what I've read so far.. I don't know exactly how it does it..


I would hope that it wouldn't be lined doubled 540p, I don't see why they would do it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well it is holding up my decision to preorder heh. I will have to wait until some more technical specs come out I suppose.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
I would hope that it wouldn't be lined doubled 540p, I don't see why they would do it that way.
This is what some older TVs did, I am almost positive our RPTV downgrades the signal if fed 720P.
 

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well if that is the case, just have the xbox360 feed it a 1080i signal.


From what I've read on the Rear Projection forum, some down convert, some upconvert..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshuha
Well it is holding up my decision to preorder heh. I will have to wait until some more technical specs come out I suppose.
I'm sure they games will still look great regardless of the technique used. So you'd skip out on the xbox360 completely then?
 

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But WILL it scale a 720p game to 1080i for you? I have read speculation from a few game sites, but nothing mentioned from MS themselves.
 

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ahh, here it is:

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/...d-Holmdahl/p1/


"I understand the choice of 720p over 1080i because of the fast-motion action sequences involved in gaming; a progressive scan picture is better than an interlaced one for this case, but lately we have seen more and more 1080p capable displays, especially DLP-based flat screens (although 1080p doesn’t belong to ATSC’s specifications for HDTV). The question is, will the Xbox 360 be able to offer a 1080p signal? Is the Xbox 360 GPU powerful enough to render games up to that resolution at playable framerates?


Todd Holmdahl: Xbox 360 offers choice for both the game developer and the end consumer. The game developer can create their game in any resolution. The consumer can request any output resolution (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). The Xbox 360’s advanced video scaler will scale the game’s native resolution to the end consumer’s requested resolution with extremely high quality output. Bottom line, the games will look amazing.

Xbox 360 does not support 1080p at this time. It’s an incremental improvement at an astronomical expense, and we don’t see consumers clamoring for 1080p TVs yet. We will continue evaluate the market and deliver the capability when and if customers want it. "
 

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Good news. Hopefully he is correct. I am curious what kind of "advanced scaler" can be had in a $299 box.


If its anything like the scaler used in say a Cable box, "advanced" means "artifact creating".
 

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well doesn't scaling almost guarantee "artifact creating" to some degree, just some better than others at it?


I'm far from an expert on scaling technology... I know i like my upconverting DVD player, but at the same time I understand you can't really create more detail by scaling..I guess that is a different issue though.
 

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Quote:
I am curious what kind of "advanced scaler" can be had in a $299 box.
How is scaling different from adjusting the resolution for Half Life 2 on my PC? Isn't that all that the 360 is doing? I take that quote as meaning 360 users will have various resolution options to them in games -not when watching DVDs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankJ.Cone
The answer to this question is WAY overdue. I cannot believe it has not come up in any interviews given how many 1080i only sets there are.
I think they have geek-filters in the interviews ... meaning that if a technical question comes up that person disappears along with their question(s). :)


What is scary is the unknown route to taking 720P material (game) and outputting it to 1080i. If it scales back to 540P and then doubles an interlaced result to 1080i I will be disappointed. But, if they scale up to 1080P and then interlace I will be just 'ok'. I would much rather that M$ mandated all original coding be done in 1080P and then altered to whatever on the output as needed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFerret
I would much rather that M$ mandated all original coding be done in 1080P and then altered to whatever on the output as needed.
Ah in a perfect world... we'll probably be on the Xbox Whatever and PS4 before every game can run at 1080P.
 

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It will probably just do what most HD cable boxes and sattelite recievers do when you set output to 720 or 1080i. I wouldn't worry about it to much, it will probably look fine and I doubt most people will be able to tell the difference between the native 1080i and the 720p to 1080i Scaled.
 
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