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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm still trying to decide what to do to upgrade my home theater.


I'm planning on moving my front Def Tech BP8-B's to the rear with my other BP8-B's and selling my ProCenter C2 for a fair price.


I'm not sure if I want to go for a pair of Def Tech BP30's up front along with a C/L/R/ 2000 center channel, or if I should try to match in a set of Rocket 750's with a Rocket 200 "bigfoot" center channel.


I should note that it is unlikely that I'd ever go with Rockets all the way around for two reasons. The physical depth of their speakers won't allow side channel placement in my room, and I prefer bipolar speakers for surround channels because of their imaging characteristics, and Rocket doesn't make bipolar towers. I don't want to ever go back to satellite surrounds after having enjoyed towers all the way around.


I hear a lot of people charaterize speakers like Klipsch and B&W as very bright, and I'd agree with that, and then characterize other speakers like Rocket as being more laid back, lacking the high end detail of very bright speakers, but also not being as piercing to listen to at high volumes.


I've never heard anyone characterize Def Tech speakers one way or the other, and I was curious about how folks here would describe Def Tech speakers in terms of sonic characteristics, value, and performance.


I've been pretty pleased with my setup, with exception of the ProCenter C2 not matching as well to the towers as it did when I had Def Tech ProMonitor speakers all the way around... so when considering my frontal upgrade (oh now get your mind out of the gutter ;)) I've actually begun to wonder if going to Rocket towers would even really be that much of an improvement over Def Tech stuff.


-Nathan
 

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Def Tech Bipolars speakers have to be setup correctly to get full advantage of their bi-polar nature. For your room you must move them away from both the side and front walls and toe them in considerably. I would characterize them as more neutral to a tad bit bright. They are not fatiqueing like Klipsch can be but they still provide detail. I believe they are a fine sounding speaker. If they are set up wrong they tend to be very boomy and muddy sounding, lacking detail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree, it took some futzing with, but I have them setup in my listening area about as well as I can.


The front baffle on the fronts is 38" away from the wall behind them, and about 30" away from the wall to the side of them. They're toe'd in so that if you were to take a laser pointer from the center of the driver the lasers would cross about a foot and a half behind the head of the person in the main seating position.


The only problem with the fronts is that the rear firing drivers on the left kind of fire in the direction of my audio rack, and on the right they fire kind of into the tube of my SVS 20-39 PC+ sub.


There's just so much talk about all these excellent internet only speakers that I couldn't help but get the upgrade bug, and I really like the look of the Rocket stuff, and I'm not a fan of Klipsch or B&W stuff because I don't like how harsh they are at high volumes without adjusting the tone on your source signal to soften things a bit, so I figured maybe some Rocket 750's up front would be nice. My concern of course is that they'd be too different from my other Def Tech's to sound good in the mix when I'm listening to CD's in multi-channel stereo, etc.


Then of course I also had the question of if Rocket speakers would even be much of an improvement, or an improvement at all over the Def Tech stuff in terms of quality, value, and performance.


-Nathan
 

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During an audition last winter in one of Nashville's better audio stores, I tried everthing and thought that the Def Tech's were the best things in the store. I still bought Rockets anyway. Part of the reason is that I still think I haven't heard Def Tech's demonstrated well. Proper speaker calibration seems to be a lost art in some stores, and typically Def Tech demos I've seen are too bass heavy, which tends to distract from the rest of the presentation. As for the merits of bipolor technology, that's up the opinion of the listener.
 

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The Definitive bipolars are mostly neutral with a bit of brightness at the top end and an emphasis on the mid-bass slam. In absolute terms transparency is lacking but the BP8s are not too out of line with other speakers in the same price range. Although the 2-way designs have deep bass for such small speakers, this comes at the expense of distortion. On the BP8s, an 80Hz cross-over really cleans up the midrange when any sort of bass is present.


You can do much better if you want an accurate speaker. For home theater use, you may prefer the colorations.


While bright speakers are perceived as detailed on first listen, it's an illusion. You can have an extreme level of detail from a completely neutral speaker. It won't jump out at you, but after some listening you'll begin noticing things you hadn't before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Drew Eckhardt
Although the 2-way designs have deep bass for such small speakers, this comes at the expense of distortion. On the BP8s, an 80Hz cross-over really cleans up the midrange when any sort of bass is present.
I assume you are refering to speakers like the BP30's which have four drivers. Two front firing, and two rear firing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Drew Eckhardt


You can do much better if you want an accurate speaker. For home theater use, you may prefer the colorations.
Well in my home studio I have KRK active studio monitors which provide a VERY accurate sound with a VERY flat response curve. While this makes for a great recording setup, I would never use something like that in a music listening room or home theater.


I find that the typical colorations for both music and movies can be an incredibly desireable characteristic for home entertainment listening... depending on the speaker of course.


-Nathan
 

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I have had a bunch of different Def Tech's in my HT. I don't like their center channels - IMHO they are a poor timbe match for their floor standing units. Consider using a floor standing unit for the center channel. Their floor standing units (and even the smaller, cheaper ProMonitor series) are good value for the money, I feel.


Obviously, take a listen and make your own decision...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well I've essentially decided on two possible upgrade paths, but not being able to hear Rocket's without buying them, or knowing how they'll blend into the rest of my stuff is kind of a hitch at the moment. The nearest Rocket auditioning I can go to is at least four hours away on the other side of the state. Anyway... hopefully I'll be in a position to do the following.


I will be selling off my Def Tech ProCenter C2, and I will be moving my current front Def Tech BP8-B's to the rear to use as "rear" surrounds mated to my already established Def Tech BP8-B "side" surrounds.


This means I'll need to get two new main front speakers, and a new center channel speaker.


I'm hoping to get a hold of one of these two setups:


Left/Right: Rocket 750's

Center: Rocket 200


...or...


Left/Right: Def Tech BP30's

Center: Def Tech C/L/R 2000



It's a tough choice, and the cost of each setup is virtually identical. I can probably go a bit cheaper with the Def Tech's because of the relationship I've built with my local dealer.


I'll be driving everything with my NAD T762 receiver, and possibly a dedicated Marantz MA200 monoblock amp for the center channel. Or finances permitting I may trade-in my T762 for a T163 pre/pro and try to land a good deal on a Sherbourn or ATI seven channel amp.


I'm just grossly unsure about either route.


I agree that Def Tech center channel speakers seem to be by far the weak point in their line-up, and at least the ProCenter C2 is not a very good match in tone or timbre to the rest of the Def Tech towers I'm using.


-Nathan
 

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Nathan,


I have the BP30, CLR2000 combo and am very happy. It may be worth your while to have your Def Tech Dealer let you do a home audition with that set up and order the Rocket set-up to do a direct comparison. You will be out shipping if you decide against the Rockets but it is a small price to pay to be sure you have what you really want.


Frank
 

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Me, too! Me, too!


I own an all-Def-Tech system: CLR-2000 ctr, BP-2000 mains (not TL's), BP-X sides, and BP-20 rears. (In case you don't know, the BP-2000's are BP-20's w/15", 300W/ch subs.) The mains are toed in, each toward the nearest sofa end, the corner nearest the screen wall is 18" from the wall, and the side walls are 29" from the corners nearest them.


I have the side-firing subs pointing inward, which to me provides much more 'slam'. The sides are, obviously, directly to the sides of the seating, and the rears are well away from every wall, and about four feet apart. I decode the rears' signal from the surrounds with a Sony DD decoder (SDP-E800) in 3-channel mode.


My amplification is all Sunfire; a Stereo (300W/ch x 2) on the mains and a Cinema Grand (200W/ch x 5) on the rest. The Sunfire ratings are at 8 ohms, but the Def Techs are more like 6, so there is more power on tap, and the Sunfires thrive on low impedance loads. I believe that high power is important to getting good sound from them.


Overall, I am extremely happy with my speakers. I couldn't imagine better, cleaner, sound. I have no trouble getting realistic, concert-level volume from them; for example, "Get Over It" from "Hell Freezes Over" (DTS laserdisc) sounds like I'm there. (It's become one of my favorite demos.) The drums have great kick, and I'm familiar with live sound.
 

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Nathan,


My 2 cents is that Def Tech produces a "big" sound that fills the room. I've owned BP-10s, BP-8's and still own BP-6"s and BPX's. I still love Def Techs's. I sold my BP-10's to my best friend and BP-8's to another good friend, so from time to time I can still enjoy those speakers in friends's theaters.


For what it's worth, I sold the Def Tech's when I purchased Aerial 10T's which I consider to be in another class and which I prefer. Not only do the Aerial's fill the room, but thay are superior when it comes to imaging that is important to me when I listen to music.


If not for the Aerial's, I would likely have Def Tech BP-30's up front with BP-8's in the rear (like you). I'm not a big fan of the powered sub speakers.


But, speakers are very subjective and you are the only one that needs to be happy with your purchase. Keep us posted.


Greg
 

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Nathan,


I also have the BP30/CLR2000 combo.

I find that they match very well together!

I don't feel that the CLR2000 is lacking as a center, and have tried others.

Buying my home theatre in stages ( budget constraints ) the CLR2000 was my most recent purchase, and has pleased me to no end.


I currently have BP1Xs as surrounds, and plan on upgrading those to either BP8Bs, or BP10Bs as the budget will allow.

I feel the Def Tech 6.5 in Drivers are very clean and detailed for mid's and mid bass- especially when bi-amped.

As far as bass freqs, I cross over my BP30s at 40 hz, and the CLR at 50 hz for home theatre, and run them as large for music.


Just my .02

Good luck with your decision.

Steve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well right now I think I'm leaning toward the BP30 and CLR 2000 option.


This is for two reasons. The first is that I can't hear the Rockets without buying them, and while I can always send them back... that is a huge PIA. The second is that the only way I can make the Rocket setup come inline with what I can probably get the Def. Tech. setup for is by getting them B-stock. Though I have no problem with buying B-stock (my SVS sub is as such and it's great) they simply don't have any of the Signature series 750's available as B-stock.


I have a hard time believing that I'm the only person who's looked to compare Def. Tech's to Rockets directly, but it feels that way :)


Most comparisons to Rockets tend to be to B&W speakers. I don't know if that's because people don't generally consider Def. Tech's to be in the same "league" as ONIX and B&W, or if it is just for a lack of optimal circumstances for testing.


-Nathan
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by naschbac


I have a hard time believing that I'm the only person who's looked to compare Def. Tech's to Rockets directly, but it feels that way :)


Most comparisons to Rockets tend to be to B&W speakers. I don't know if that's because people don't generally consider Def. Tech's to be in the same "league" as ONIX and B&W, or if it is just for a lack of optimal circumstances for testing.
Oh now I can't believe I didn't take any flak for that.


-Nathan
 

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I gave a pair of Def Teck BP10's a shot a few months ago. I let them burn in longer than the manual suggests (100+ hrs), tried placing them over and over again and could never get them to produce decent sounding music IMHO. They did work great for movies I'll give them that but for music I feel they left something to be desired. I would characterize the sound as boomy, bright (way more than my klipsch fortes) and very diffused sound. I really wanted to like them because they looked very nice IMO but I couldn't get use to there sound no matter how hard I tried and there boominess was annoying.


These are just my opinions based on my experience with them. All I can say is let YOUR EARS be the judge and don't take anyones word for it when it comes to speakers, this thread is proof positive of that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
:D


Yeah the problem is that my ears can't listen to Rockets from 300 miles away, and when I tried to do an audition over the phone I think the crappy ear piece in my cell phone was coloring the sound ;).


-Nathan
 

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I was in a similar position just last weekend when I went auditioning speakers to replace my BP8 L/R and ProCenter C2 center channel. I was thinking BP10/BP30 (depending if I could justify the price difference in terms of improved performance) and a C/L/R 2002 center. To my surprise what I ended up with was a pair of B&W CM4s and a B&W CMC center (I'm having them shipped now so I haven't had the chance to try them in my home yet). I also listened to the B&W 603s but felt the CM series were worth the extra money from a sound and fit-and-finish perspective.


I understand a lot of people consider B&Ws a little bright, and to be honest I felt the BP8s were bright too, but given my listening levels and what sounds good to me that didn't bother me. The main difference I heard was in quality of music - there was relatively little to choose between on HT soundtracks, especially given that I've also got an SVS 20-39PCi sub. The difference in music reproduction was great enough that I felt comfortable making the brand switch.


Not sure how relevant my experience is to you, except that I think I agree to some extent with the received wisdom that DefTechs are better for HT than for music, and I'm going to be listening to enough music that it was a deciding issue for me. If you are primarily a HT listener I think Def Techs are fantastic speakers and great value for money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hey thanks that was pretty helpful.


Are you running Def Tech towers for your surrounds? If so how well do they match up with the B&W's?


-Nathan
 

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I still have my DefTech BP1.2x bookshelf surrounds, which were/are just great given how cheap they are. I'm also a big fan of bipolar for the surround speakers, and I'm loath to replace them with direct radiating or even dipole surrounds. I was able to demo the CM range in a room with the BP1.2x's as surrounds so I got a chance to hear them in action with the B&Ws and for movie soundtracks I think they worked OK. I have a feeling I might have some more timbre matching issues playing DVD-Audio discs where vocals and insturments are shared across surround and front channels, but I haven't had a chance to test that yet.


I'm on one of these 'full purchase credit if you upgrade within a year' deals with my speaker retailer, so I have until February to decide what I want to do. I'd love to stay with bipolar surrounds if I don't notice any issues with matching the B&Ws and DefTechs.
 
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