[pangloss]

i can't seem to display movies in their correct aspect ratio.


i don't actually seem to own any 1.78:1 movies (anyone recommend one?), but i do have a number of 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 dvds.


ignorance is truly bliss because now i'm really frustrated. the picture seemed a little off to me, so i actually pulled out the tape measure and i can't get 1.85 movies to display at the proper ratio. nor can i get 2.35 movies to display correctly.


i'm using the hs-10 ceiling mounted in "full" wide mode, projecting onto a 92" diagonal da-lite model b (16:9/1.78:1).


i've tried all the wide modes. even the full and normal through modes aren't yielding the correct aspect ratios.


for example, using Last of the Mohicans, which is 2.35:1

- full: 2.8:1 (80x28.5)

- normal: 2.14:1 (61x28.5)

- wide zoom: 2.75:1 (80x29)

- zoom: 2.16:1 (80x37)

- subtitle: 2.22:1 (80x36)

- full through: 2.87:1 (46x16)

- normal through: 2.15:1 (34.5 x 16)


Edward Scissorhands (1.85:1)

- full: 1.77 (80x45)

- normal: 1.35 (61x45)

- full through: 1.76 (46x26)

- normal through: 1.32(34.5x26)


Amelie (2.35:1)

- full: 2.16 (80x37)

- full thorugh: 2.19 (46x21)


Dune (2.35:1)

- full: 2.85 (80x28)

- full through: 2.87 (46x16)


my measurements may be off by a half-inch here and there as i was measuring alone. but i did double and triple check, so nothing is grossly off.


for instance, on a 16x9 screen, oughtn't i see small black bars across the top and bottom on a 1.85x1 movie? edward scissorhands fills the screen perfectly, which while nice, seems off according to the numbers.


the 2.35 movies are really off though.

any ideas how to account for the disparities? can anyone else confirm their own ratios?


fyi: i'm using an apex ad-600a dvd player with component out to the supplied sony multi-cable.


thanks in advance!

 

[JJay]

Usually this ends up being some sort of set-up issue in the dvd player. Make sure that your dvd player is set-up to output 16:9--just because you connect using component doesn't mean its outputting 16:9. A good way to check is use Avia or a dvd that has the thx optimizer (such as a Star Wars dvd). For example, using the thx optimizer the circle pattern on the widescreen output should be round. The thx optimizer is a pretty quick/obvious check to see if all is set-up correctly....

 

[AngryofMayfair]

I agree with JJay - I think you will find your player is set to 'letterbox' rather than '16:9'

 

[pangloss]

the player is set to "wide".


there are three choices:

- 4x3

- 4x3 letterbox

- wide


so i think i got that part right....


in letterbox mode, 1.85 movies get, well, letterboxed. but in wide mode, they fill the screen completely, which seems off.


but the variance in 2.35 movies just seems bizarre.


so on your setups, if you measure the viewable image on a 2.35 dvd, it in fact works out to 2.35:1?

 

[atdauph]

I have never seen a DVD labeled 1.78:1, but I have several DVDs labeled 1.85:1, and they fill the screen, which would put them at 1.77 to 1. They don't ever look distorted though.


As far as 2.35 movies go, if your player is set to output 16:9, and you set the HS10 to Full mode. That should give you a correct picture, with bars on top and bottom. Also, full through will you give the correct picture aspect ratio. Anything else will chop the picture or distort it.


If the picture looks distorted when set this way, I'd say the issue is with your DVD player.

 

[pangloss]

doesn't that strike you as odd? i mean a 1.85 movie oughtn't fill a 16x9 screen. doesn't that suggest that there is some amount of distortion going on?

 

[DMILANI]

You folks are forgetting about overscan. I believe the HS10 has something like 5% overscan in both horizontal and vertical directions, so therefore 1.85 AR movies will fill the screen, and 2.35 AR movies will appear to have slightly smaller black bars above and below the screen.


Also, depending on whether the DVD is an anamorphic transfer or not, then you will need to select either full or zoom modes. It looks like (from the numbers you measured above) that Last of the Mohicans and Dune are NOT anamorphic, but just letterboxed, and therefore should be set for zoom mode. Amelie looks to be anamorphic, and should be set for full mode.


Hope this clears things up.


-D

 

[atdauph]

There is no distortion, at least if there is, it's negligible. Because if there were, I'd notice it. My TS160, distorts the picture very slightly when it pillar boxes 4:3 content, and it's obvious to me. Most people don't notice it.


I'd say the reason is overscan, as stated previously. I have AVIA, and I adjusted the HS10 to have about 5% overscan on all ends, and then centered the image. With overscan, you can be missing some picture, but not distort the AR.

 

[Josh Z]

Quote:

Originally posted by DMILANI Also, depending on whether the DVD is an anamorphic transfer or not, then you will need to select either full or zoom modes. It looks like (from the numbers you measured above) that Last of the Mohicans and Dune are NOT anamorphic, but just letterboxed, and therefore should be set for zoom mode. Amelie looks to be anamorphic, and should be set for full mode.

Dune is indeed a non-anamorphic transfer. There have been a couple of releases of Last of the Mohicans. I believe the first release was non-anamorphic, but the later remaster is anamorphic.


Amelie is anamorphic.

 

[sportster64]

Isn't Shrek a 1.78 movie you could try ?

 

[DaveBoswell]

I can tell from your measurements that in fact you have exactly 4% overscan on the sides of the picture. It's not possible to tell from these measurements what the overscan is on the top or the bottom, but it's likely very close to the same 4%. 4% overscan is actually a quite good number for a TV, though I wish there was a way on the HS-10 to completely eliminate it.


Here's the math:


Actual screen width = 80"

Visible height of 2.35:1 movie = 37"

Therefore theoretical width = 37" x 2.35 = 86.95"

Overscan = ( 86.95" - 80" ) / 2 sides = 3.475"

Overscan % = 3.475" / 86.95" = 4.0%


As you note, the actual visible aspect ratio is not 2.35:1 but 2.16:1. This could be properly fixed by using an HTPC with DVI.


Hope this helps.


Dave

 

[sportster64]

Dave - Im a little confused on this overscan - you say 4% overscan - but is that only in the horizontal plane(sides) ? If it were also 4% in the vertical plane (top and bottom)- then I would think that the overscan would cancel its self out ? And how does using a htpc correct the situation ? What causes this overscan ?

 

[Josh Z]

Quote:

Originally posted by sportster64 Dave - Im a little confused on this overscan - you say 4% overscan - but is that only in the horizontal plane(sides) ? If it were also 4% in the vertical plane (top and bottom)- then I would think that the overscan would cancel its self out ? And how does using a htpc correct the situation ? What causes this overscan ?

Overscan usually occurs in all directions. If the program you are watching is wider than 1.78:1, the vertical overscan eats into the black letterbox bars, not the picture content, and therefore the figures do not even themselves out.


An HTPC would allow you to scale the picture so that it in effect zooms outward, shrinking the entire picture a little bit to counteract overscan.


Overscan is set by the manufacturer. All tube and RPTV displays have them, and for the sake of consistency some projectors like the X1 as well. Less than 5% is a good number and generally you shouldn't give it too much thought. When movies are photographed, only rarely is vital picture information placed at the extreme edges of the frame. Cinematographers tend to leave a small amount of dead buffer space along the edges to account for variances in theatrical projection and TV overscan.

 

[sportster64]

so I still don't see why the maufactures would manufacture electonics with overscan built in ? why don't they make it exactly zero percent ? That way there is no question in anybodys minds.

 

[Josh Z]

Overscan isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you have a TV or projector calibrated for Zero overscan and try to watch over-the-air or cable broadcasts, you'll see all sorts of excess signal crap along the edges of many channels. You're not meant to see it, because it should be hidden by the overscan.

 

[pangloss]

yay. i *knew* there would be knowledgeable, over-my-head, technical answers from this group


but i'm comforted knowing that there *is* a rational explanation in general and that the letterbox/anamorphic releases explain the variations between the 2.35 movies.


and just to confirm: so non-anamorphic, but widescreen movies ought to be viewed in zoom mode? i'm loathe to measure tonight, because i'm afraid i'll get sucked into watching another movie i still can't get over how great movies on the big screen look!


thanks again to everyone for helping to solve my little mystery.

 

[DaveBoswell]

pangloss,


You are correct: all non-anamorphic widescreen movies should be viewed in ZOOM mode and all anamorphic movies in FULL.


Dave

 

[sega19]

The reason I hate this overscan is I built a screen to 2.35 ratio for my HS10 and am using a constant height system. I now have gaps on the sides because the ratio is not 2.35. Also, the horizontal overscan can be corrected for by using the Horizontal size setting and shrinking it. The only problem is that you can shrink the vertical, so the picture looks squished, and it still isn't 2.35, but you can atleast see all of the picture in the horizontal.


Dave, will using a HTPC allow me to solve my problem???

 

[jwtseng]

An HTPC will allow you to display the correct aspect ratios of movies by eliminating overscan. This all assumes that you are able to do 1:1 pixel mapping between your HTPC and your projector. Do a little looking around here and I am certain there are several threads on people trying to do this on your particular projector. It may or may not be worth the effort to you. The picture is amazing though in a 1:1 setup.