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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for observations comparing the Sonys

the HS-10 and the 11-HT:)
 

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I spent a few hours demoing the 11HT before buying the HS10. The one thing that bothered me about the 11HT was all the screen door. In general I also preferred the HS10 PQ - which is good since it was so much more affordable at the time.


The one big advantage I noticed with the 11HT was how excellent standard def TV looked. Really amazing. The HS10 doesn't to standard rez as well, but oh the high def!! I'm expecting the HS20 to be a killer..
 

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I think HS10 HAS a different LCD panel which although has the same resolution as HT-11 1366*768 it is actually SMALLER 0.87' instead of 1.3' which means same pixels squeezed in less space and most probably less pixelation/SDE on SCREEN..... HS10 has superb PQ for it's price.....(if it wasn't the lamp bug......)
 

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Let me start by saying that I am not an LCD or SONY basher. I bought one of the first SONY 10HTs, developed the CC filter tweak and SMART based on that experience, and then upgraded to an 11HT when it first came out. I use my 11HT everyday and still find its image remarkably pleasing.


From the beginning I have seen SDE with the 11HT on certain scenes, e.g. a very bright scene, or a pan across a cloudy sky, but never really considered it a significant issue with most viewing situations. In all cases, I am not talking about seeing the actual pixel grid as a resolved feature, just some unexpected “texture†in the image.


BTW with SDE this very regular canvas like “texture†is uniform across the whole screen. FPN on the other hand is more like someone painted the canvas and the paint dripped or ran in a few places – much more localized or random, although it is not unusual to see several pixels in a column of similar gain or intensity. I saw quite a bit of FPN on several projectors at CEDIA, but I’ll have to admit that I don’t see FPN on my 11HT.


In the last year of so, I have had the ability to try (review) quite a few other projectors, LCD, LcoS and DLP, in my HT, using my source material, my screen, and my normal viewing chair. I’ll typically have a projector anyplace from a week to a month. Some of these projectors have had worse SDE than my 11HT, and some much better.


When I had an HS10 recently, I was quite surprised that the SDE appeared to be somewhat more noticeable with the HS10 than with my 11HT, even though they were using the same resolution and projecting the same sized image on the same screen, etc. Then it occurred to me that the 10-and 11 HTs are based on a 1.35 inch 1364x768 pixel chip, where the HS10 is based a 0.87 inch chip of the same resolution. Assuming similar manufacturing technologies and therefore similar minimum grid dimensions, it sort of makes sense that having the same number of pixels on the smaller chip would lead to a lower fill factor and worse SDE. Anyway that is what I see. This is not to say that the HS10 is not an excellent projector, it is, especially at its price point.


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for your obsevations steve!! :)
 

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Quote:
I’ll have to admit that I don’t see FPN on my 11HT.
Steve


Is that not what the 3D Gamma calibration is all about on the 10HAT/11HT?

Do you know if that is available on the HS10?


Liam
 

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Steve Smallcombe


quote

'Then it occurred to me that the 10-and 11 HTs are based on a 1.35 inch 1364x768 pixel chip, where the HS10 is based a 0.87 inch chip of the same resolution. Assuming similar manufacturing technologies and therefore similar minimum grid dimensions, it sort of makes sense that having the same number of pixels on the smaller chip would lead to a lower fill factor and worse SDE'

Steve

Shouldn't it be the other way around?????

Ok maybe you are right provided that Sony in the new lcd (HS10) panel kept the previous grid dimensions and made pixels smaller (lower fill factor) but then why didn't they used the previous already existing 1.35', (10-11HT) panel.....?

I think that HS10 panel has advantages over previous models and maybe

the grid dimensions were those that led to shrinking of the panel..(higher fill factor..) Anyway I can't see any SDE in HS10 and in a 92' screen individual pixels are only seen if you come close to
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by LeonidasVouros
Shouldn't it be the other way around?????

Ok maybe you are right provided that Sony in the new lcd (HS10) panel kept the previous grid dimensions and made pixels smaller (lower fill factor) but then why didn't they used the previous already existing 1.35', (10-11HT) panel.....?
All else being equal, a smaller LCD panel will be cheaper than a larger panel. Since LCDs are manufactured using processes similar to microprocessors (e.g. lithography), the cost of a unit will be highly dependent upon its area, especially vis-a-vis the parent stock.


Every time Intel shrinks the size of the die for one of its chips, costs come down. Why? Because they can get more chips out of one 20cm (or 30cm these days) wafer. Almost all of the manufacturing occurs at the wafer level, not the individual chip level. With a constant cost to manufacture a given wafer, more chips equals a lower unit cost.


Later,

Bill
 

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Smaller chips equal lower cost chips for the reasons stated above. I think it is also a fair assumption that the grid will always be as small as possible, and so it is the pixel area that gets smaller when you put more pixels into a smaller area.


FPN is an uneven response at pixel resolution. The SONY 3D gamma correction is a much larger scale correction as it divides the screen up into 28 regions (at 8 different brightness levels) and allows color correction of each of those. For example the 3D gamma correction can help with a green tint on the lower right corner, but it is certainly not at pixel resolution. I should also mention that the 3D gamma is normally very well adjusted by SONY and only if the panels warp in the future will you need to adjust it.


As for seeing SDE, it does depend on what you are used to and I am certainly used to my 11HT. About a year or so ago I had a fellow forum member out to the house to see my setup. OF course I am very proud of my setup, but his first comment was, “Wow, look at that screen door effectâ€. My reaction was. “What screen door effect, I really don’t notice it at this distance with this imageâ€. He did, as he was used to DLP projectors. I had a similar experience recently with a CRT guy.


I’ll also have to say that after getting used to the image on the BenQ 8700 for a week, that my first viewing experience on returning to my trusty 11HT was, Yuk, the screen door effect was BAD. A week later, the 11HT looked fine again as my eyes and brain had gotten used to seeing that texture in the image associated with SDE. Obviously, to a large extent it is what you are used to. I still have my 11HT and do enjoy it very much. Overall it is a very clean high-resolution picture.


I should also mention that I occasionally see also Fly Spec Noise (“FSNâ€) and the closely related Fly Smudge Noise that happens when one of these buggers gets rolled up in the screen at the end of the evening. The little moths that like grains are the worst! Consult your owner’s manual, but a clean screen is a good thing and mine certainly needs cleaning occasionally. That’s enough noise for now.


Steve
 
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