[kct]

The HS10 Index thread didn't have this comparison so let

me share what a friend of mine experienced yesterday.

Perhaps tbodin will update his index.


He got interested in front pj's after seeing my setup which

consists of a Piano 3200 & Firehawk. I told him to keep

an eye open for the new HS10. Well a local dealer called

him yesterday to take a look.


His first impression of the HS10 was that of a very large

television. He's not a seasoned fpj person but he seems

to know what to look for. To him it looked like his old

rptv but bigger. Nothing more. The dealer busily made

some adjustments but to my friend there was no significant

difference.


It so happens that this dealer just started to carry the

Piano and proceeded to do a demo. My friend said it had

the "wow" factor (quoted exactly) whereas the HS10 did not.

Enough said.


The advice I gave him was to audition as many pj's as possible. You just don't know what looks best to you until

you have. And don't rely only on specs.


After all this, I've got to take a look at this HS10 for myself!


btw, the HS10 costs $300 more here.

 

[Utopia]

From everything I have seen thats the nature of LCD. Thats the way the HD20 looked to me. A big TV. But, there still was the HOLY WOW factor. I hope the HS10 will have that to.


I cant afford 16x9 DLPs, and I need at least 4x color wheel. Nothing like a film like picture with rainbow artifacts everywhere! I figure this will hold me over till JVC has 16x9 DILA ( 2/3 yrs?) or the HD2 16x9s come down in price. By then I will have a job and will buy one of them. DLP is definitely smoother and less TV like.

 

[Xander]

I suggest that your friend try and find someone with an AE300 to have a look at as well. That smooth screen technology stuff makes a big difference...

 

[kct]

Quote:

Originally posted by Xander I suggest that your friend try and find someone with an AE300 to have a look at as well. That smooth screen technology stuff makes a big difference...

I told him about the AE300 but he hasn't found one to

see. It certainly won't be side by side with the others.

 

[kct]

Some additional comments.


Had a chance to take a look at the HS10. Unsurprisingly

found it very similar in quality to 11HT. In brief, screen

door was not detectable from 10 feet away, color accuracy

and saturation was good but not great. You could summarize

by saying it has a smooth effortless picture. It lacks a

bit of immediacy or jump factor or what ever you call the

impact you get from a high contrast projector. The Piano

by spec is not high contrast but has a slightly more vibrant

image, though if you enlarge it to 120" then the HS10's

higher resolution takes over. The slightly higher output

on the Sony helps a bit here too even in cinema black mode

though in this mode the fan noise was slightly more

noticeable than the Piano. Also the black levels are not

up to the Piano's standards. The gradation of grays have

not improved over the 11HT which was weak in this area.


The Sony is also quite a bit bigger and that may or may not

be a factor for some. Overall a very nice projector but I

had expected more. Even at this price. Perhaps Sony is

saving it for the next generation.

 

[OSxyz]

My expectation on HS10 was high with all the hype that even caused the threads to be "managed" by the moderator. However it was really a disappointment when I saw it in a show yesterday. It was projected on a firehawk 100" 16:9 screen. I am not sure if it was the unit problem, but the vertical band showing on the display was just too high considering it's a brand new model. It also lacks the "wow" factor that I was expecting in terms of color and contrast. It also lacks the black level details eventhough it was on a grey screen with filter on and setup by the prefessional who has the equipment and all the experince on calibrating Barco projectors and recently the SMART on 11HT, and calibrating Sharp 9000 that made it look real good. On the other hand, I was really taken surprised by the AE300 displayed in another room. The smooth technology does work nicely and the main thing was really it's vibrant color and black level details that I didn't expect to see. It was only projecting on a lower cost Draper 16:9 grey screen an the pq was really great with a Pioneer 755 progressive scan playback but the DVI playback from the HTPC really makes it shine. I know it was not calibrated with any equipment at all except using naked eye. It was definitely the best display setup among the Sony HS10, HS2, 12HT, Sharp XV-90/DT200, Sanyo Z1, Philips Darbo, AE200 I saw in the show. I already made up my mind to get the HS10 before the show, but right now I really can't accept its pq I saw. I need to see another proper setup to give it another chance. In any case, I really think the AE300 really deserve to be the top contender. Even the AE200 has the a great color and much improved black level details that could easily beat other LCD projectors in the show. I really wonder how Panasonic can pull this one out on the black without the need to put on a filter like the Sony does and yet not as good.


OS.

 

[Utopia]

OSxyz go buy your 4X3 rainbow machine and your P/Q will always be better on your 60" screen. Why do people constantly have to bash products by comparing apples to oranges. LCDs to DLPs. There are so many factors to take into consideration that it is useless to say one projector is better than another until you know the details of what the person that will be using wants performance wise, and is susceptible to visually.


It gets to the point of children saying my Dads bigger than yours. Obviously you are biased to the piano because you fail to mention all of its weaknesses. While missleading others into thinking the same thing. Hidden agenda?

 

[Flooper]

Quote:

Originally posted by Utopia OSxyz go buy your 4X3 rainbow machine and your P/Q will always be better on your 60" screen. Why do people constantly have to bash products by comparing apples to oranges. LCDs to DLPs. There are so many factors to take into consideration that it is useless to say one projector is better than another until you know the details of what the person that will be using wants performance wise, and is susceptible to visually. It gets to the point of children saying my Dads bigger than yours. Obviously you are biased to the piano because you fail to mention all of its weaknesses. While missleading others into thinking the same thing. Hidden agenda?

Ummm...isn't the AE300 an lcd, and not a 4:3 rainbow machine, or am I really as dumb as my wife says I am?

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally posted by Flooper Ummm...isn't the AE300 an lcd, and not a 4:3 rainbow machine, or am I really as dumb as my wife says I am?

I think Utopia confused OSxyz with one of the other posters in this thread. I can understand a mistake here and there, as it must be hard work being as unbiased as Utopia is. It's also gotta be hard to target your emotions at the right person when you're so busy looking for hidden agendas everywhere. Geez, Flooper, give the guy a break!


Mike U.

 

[costa]

The comment about DLP was for the Piano mentioned above. People have different tastes and it is perfectly normal to like one thing over another. Of course, it is not perfectly normal to "exaggerate" but understandable

To each his own.

 

[Xander]

>>On the other hand, I was really taken surprised by the AE300 displayed in another room. The smooth technology does work nicely and the main thing was really it's vibrant color and black level details that I didn't expect to see.

 

[Flooper]

Quote:

Originally posted by mulveling I think Utopia confused OSxyz with one of the other posters in this thread. I can understand a mistake here and there, as it must be hard work being as unbiased as Utopia is. It's also gotta be hard to target your emotions at the right person when you're so busy looking for hidden agendas everywhere. Geez, Flooper, give the guy a break! Mike U.

Well, then, I guess if you're gonna blast someone with the comments like "take your 4:3 rainbow machine", you oughta at least take the time to get his name right. I actually thought he was referring to OSxyz's post--so that does answer the question. I am as dumb as my wife says.

 

[Utopia]

No your not as dumb as your wife says! I opened my mouth and inserted my foot. My mistake with the AE300. I did confuse it with the 3200.


Points to consider.

The AE doesn't have 3/2 pull down. Isn't that important for viewing DVDs? It looks like the C/R is 800/1 on the AE and 700/1 for the HS-10, along with a UHM bulb for the 300 and a UHP bulb for the HS-10.


Once again my main point was that we need to consider a lot of issues before we can say which projector is better, and then with that in mind we also have to know that there is some subjectivity inherent in determining which projector may be better. However we would like to believe otherwise.

 

[HTCrazy]

As a new HS10 owner I was also surprised that the colors weren't as vivid as I expected. But I've noticed that when colors are supposed to be vivid in the source (ala Moulon Rouge, 5th Element, etc) they're very vivid on the HS10.


The colors on the HS10 seem to be about accuracy than anything. Maybe that's the reason it looked like a "big TV". Black levels on DLP's will be better than LCD's across the board. But for me, they're always fatiguing to watch. I haven't seen the AE300, but somehow I knew I'd always regret not going for the highest resolution I could afford.


One weird thing about the HS10 I still notice is that for some reason the pq improves enormously after at least an hour of viewing. It's frustrating, but I'm still hoping after the bulb and projector burn in more, the time it takes to get into its "excellent picture quality" mode drops considerably.

 

[blitzkreig]

Quote:

Originally posted by HTCrazy One weird thing about the HS10 I still notice is that for some reason the pq improves enormously after at least an hour of viewing.

Yer not on your second 6 pack by then are you?? Seriously I haven't noticed this... do you really think a warm-up is necessary?

 

[kct]

OSxyz, I'm afraid that you were the target of comments that

were meant for me. Utopia may have a point in that I did

not stress the Piano's weaknesses. They simply did not

come into play either for my friend or myself. Though now

having used it for about 5 months I can say I know its

weaknesses well but I'm happy to see that it is still very

competitive in a rapidly improving field.


Given that both projectors are at a similar price point it

seemed natural to compare them.

 

[OSxyz]

kct, I have not seen the Piano so can't comment on it. However I do hv some reservation on DLP projector because I saw rainbow on it before and heard things about headaches after long viewing on it. The latest one I saw, the Sharp Z90 has 5 color wheel (I think), was much better but still prefer to stay away from DLP if there is a comparable quality LCD projector due to the above reason.


Utopia, I really didn't mean to say which projector is better as a judge. I'm sorry and I should hv mentioned explicitly that the comments were made purely based on the viewing on the setups in the av show and were my observations at that time. It could properly be the AE300 was being setup properly and whereas others might not. Initially I was very happy to see the great pq on AE200/300 before seeing HS10 because I was really sure that the HS10 will be a notch better based on the specs (except the contrast ratio as you pointed out). The 3/2 pull down or deinterlacer is not important to me because I already hv a DVD player with Faroudja chip as well as a HTPC. I definitely hv no hidden agenda because I've been searching for the right projector for the last 5 months and until today I'm still reading this forum to look for the answer. I actully wanted to get the HD20/PLV-70 initially but unfortunately it's not available in here (Malaysia). So I settled for HS10 as the target but now I will go to the dealer shop to evaluate the HS10 again with the proper setup and also with my HTPC DVI 1:1 perfect pixel mapping.


Xander, I only saw the AE300 with good component cable connection as well as DVI connection from HTPC. That could mean that it was almost the best setup possible I saw on the AE300, short of the 1:1 perferct pixel mapping that I hope someone can find it.

 

[HTCrazy]

Blitz - I was suspicious myself, so I've been watching for it ever since i got it. Some films that looked great a couple hours on I tried putting up first the next night and it was like watching a completely different transfer. Weird.

 

[jsp]

well Im up past 160 hours on my HS10 now and I cant say its "worn in" it still looks the same as the day I got it!


I trialed 2 DLP models (sharp m20 and NEC lt-240) and I saw slight but not bad rainbows on both, but I didnt get headaches, but I got, I don't know how to describe it, my eyes felt like they were working overtime, almost like driving in a hot summers day without sunny's on, you get hot tired eyes fast.


Then again the boss, she couldnt see it on the sharp m20 unless she waved her hands in front of her face.


I bought the HS10 for several reasons, I viewed the 12HT, and a yamaha unit d50 or something about the same price as the 12HT. I also tried a panasonic AE100 (not in the same ballpark - sorry guys its not a personal attack at ae-100 owners).


The HS10 came with the reliability I expect from sony products (3 CRT units going strong) and it was the best bang for my buck being able to project a HUGE picture onto a soon to be hung 9 foot wide 16x9 screen.


Then again I live in Australia, the AE300 wasnt due out untill "uhhh thats that new panasonic with some sort of screen thing, thats next march or april" and is quoted at being $1500 more than what I paid for my locally purchased HS10.


Granted the black levels on the HS10 arent that great, but I think colours on it are MARVELOUS, then again I spent a few hours tweaking mine and have a plain matt white screen and a home made screen.


My HS10 suits me, as for the boss, she's happy to sit and watch her 14 inch his masters vioce set bought the week colour TV was released in Australia. To her its great with all she need's. My HS10 is simply a temporary 3 or 4 year stepping stone to a 8 or 9 inch CRT in the new house when I finally move sometime in the next 18 months. Then the HS10 will be relegated to PC projection and regular TV viewing to save the tubes on the CRT.


Each to their own.


There must be allot of happy people with DLP units, or why would they make them if there was no market. To me, they are not an option.


Now I'm dribblin get me a bib