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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I used to own an HS10 (I had it for a couple of weeks altogether). After a while I started to find the noise a bit annoying, so I got curious and tried to figure out where the noise was actually coming from.


By putting my ear against the exhaust grilles and various areas of the casing, I came to the surprising conclusion that most of the noise comes from the casing (mostly the underside) and not the fan grilles.


So, while I had the HS10 upside down, I tried putting a few magazines on the underside (now face up), taking care not to block the ventilation holes. Sure enough, this reduced the noise coming from the projector.


The reduction in sound level wasn't huge, but the quality of it changed - a lot of the buzziness seemed to have disappeared, and it became much less annoying.


In fact I reduced the noise coming from mine just by taking it off the table it was on and putting it on the floor. I guess the noise got transmitted to - and amplified by - the table.


So I thought that if I put some kind of soundproofing material on the bottom of the projector it could permanently reduce the noise. I saw some stuff that might be suitable called Dynamat, at a car accessory shop (Halfords) which is meant to be put inside car doors to reduce noise transmission to the interior.


If you were prepared to take the top cover off, you could possibly put soundproofing material on the inside of it, however I'm not sure if there would be enough clearance with the internal components for that.


Unfortunately I never got any further with this, because the projector had a fault and I got a refund. By then I was thinking of getting an AE300 (which has only just come out in Europe) but I've since come back to the HS10 - the noise is the only thing that puts me off it, and a hush box etc. is not an option for me.


So if anyone has any thoughts on this, or would like to try out the soundproofing idea, I'd be interested to hear from you.
 

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I was once thinking about silencing my HS10 (doesn't really bother me that much, though) and decided if I were going to do it, I'd build an electronic canceling system. I'd simply use a microphone to drive an out of phase speaker to cancel the sound output. It wouldn't completely eliminate the noise, but I bet it'd work pretty well...
 

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I have an HS10 and the noise bothers me a fair amount also. Since I build PC's (hobby), I'm going to try a fan mod tomorrow. If it goes well I'll post my mods and the results.


Cheers,

dagger


PS. I also checked for cabinet resonances - one can usually identify them by putting pressure on various locations. But I found it had minimal affect, so I'm hoping the exhaust fans are a main contributor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
daggerNC, good luck with the mod - which fans are you trying to change?


I don't think I found any signs of resonance in the casing either.


A while back a guy over on avforums in the UK opened his HS10 and posted photos:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=9


He thought that most of the fan noise came from cage fans embedded deep within and near the underside of the machine, which is very hard to get to. That would seem to tie in with my findings.

Having just looked at these photos again, I think there should be room to put sound insulation inside the projector along the sides of the casing.


Kevin, the noise cancelling idea would be great - if you could get it to work!


Unfortunately my electronics skills are fairly limited, so it's a non-starter for me...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
By the way, this is a link to the Dynamat website. They do various products but I think Dynamat Extreme would be the best one for this application.


It's only about 1mm thick, so I think it could be applied to the inside surface of the HS10's casing without much problem, as well as to the bottom of the casing (on the outside surface).


It looks like they use Extreme in their PC soundproofing kits.

http://www.dynamat.com/
 

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Noise cancelling is a nice idea and if you were to wear headphones it would work great! Unfortunately it only works when your ears are at a fixed distance from the noise cancelling source. You can make it work but if you move your head slightly in any direction, the cancelling effect will be lost. Headphones give you fixed relative positioning of ears to source but of course kinda defeat the purpose of a 7.1 sound system!
 

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I plan on putting my HS10 upside down on top of my entertainment center. I will place the PJ on a set of Vibrapods which may lessen any vibration-related noise.
 

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Marcus/others,


A quick update post on my travails yesterday with the HS10 fan mods.


Verified they are both standard sized fans, but unlike a previous post, they are not the same size: (from looking at front of an upright HS10), the left fan is 92x92x25mm and the right fan is 80x80x25mm. I was very surprised when I pulled the 92mm out - it was a Panaflo hydro-wave!!! (Model number FBL09A12H1A - note the 3rd char is L instead of A - I suspect it is due to the special exhaust only molding design) Nice quality Sony - but that killed my idea to replace it. This was the high flow model and the (2) Vantec Stealths I bought wouldn't come close to the airflow of this panaflo. As well, the Panaflo's are considered to be very quiet per cfm with maybe the only competition coming from Pabst fans. To replace the 92mm, you will need to splice the stock micro fan header onto the replacement's standard size 3 pin header. As well, one or 2 of the corners would need to be shaved - this is an exhaust fan casing with only 4 lips for mounting versus the standard 8 lips.


The 80mm fan is a standard Sanyo-Denki. It is probably an option to change out as the SD's can be noisier than others, but I didn't have anything that was quieter on hand. As well, this has a custom male fan header that would have to be spliced in to the replacement.


What I did do is both fans have a custom plastic frame that sits in front of the fan. There is a small gap that could cause some vibration noise if it contacted the fan center. I applied some thin rubber self stick padding so that it would cushion/prevent this. As well, on the 80mm fan, they had a plastic screen infront of it (exhaust side - which blows out the front of the PJ). These type of restrictions (see the back of many PC cases where the exhaust fans are mounted) are good for protecting fingers, but not for noise. Since the HS10 front bezel has a grid, I removed this.


The bad news is that there is a small wire lead connected to the front bezel that is for the front LED sensor. I appears the wire lead was caught on the side panel, and when I removed the side panel it popped the lead socket off of the LED pcb board :( I tried to resolder, but no luck. I will try to replace - though this would have happend had I done this to remove dust blobs so I feel this is a factory error. I now have to point the remote at the PJ versus bouncing off the screen. The other word of caution is to take care of taking the top and side and front panels off - they are a very tight fit and require small angled moves to take off and put back on.


Net result is it seems to be a couple of dB quieter - can't say for sure as my SPL meter is at its limit at about 10" away from the PJ. Hopefully the rubber pads and screen mesh removal were effective. The next time I take it apart (IR pcb replacement) I will also buy a power cord that fits (double half rounds versus the square/single half round I had) and then probe which fans are causing the most noise. There is no room on the top panel for dynamat, and can't get to the bottom. The side panel might be worth a try if it's only 1mm thick.


Wish me better luck next time,

dagger
 

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Thats interesting Dagger, too bad the drawings I sent don't show the real shape of that left fan. I knew they had to be some difference in the two because of different part numbers, just didn't know what it was.


I got a catalog with that 92mm fan listed, though I'm sure it can be found on the net with a search. It's 7-13.5 volts, actually shows 25.5 instead of 25mm. 45.89 max CFM airflow, and 40 dba max noise.


I also looked in a ebm (papst) catalog, didn't see that type of fan listed. They do have a 92x25mm , regular type housing though, 8-15 volt, 42 cfm, at 28 dba. I know I replaced a 60mm hydro-wave with a papst and it was a lot quieter.


Didn't really look at the 80mm fans, but I see a good many listed.


Sorry to hear about the broke socket on the LED board. I don't have the manual here but is there not a wire there to unplug? Did the print break off the circuit board, is that why you couldn't resolder it? Still might could take small wires and jump to it.


Thanks for the details, don't sound like its very easy to get the sound down by dealing with the fans. Sure sounds like that left front one is making the most noise though. I know the internal fans are creating there share, but don't think much can be done about those.
 

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>> I now have to point the remote at the PJ versus bouncing off the screen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
dagger, sorry to hear about your problem with the IR. Hope you manage to reconnect it (if not maybe a repair shop could fix it?).


I guess that's why I would be reluctant to do any mods that involve doing any more than taking the top and side panels off.


Just to be clear, my idea for reducing noise from the underside of the projector was to stick the Dynamat on the outside of the projector, i.e. underneath it.


Obviously, you'd have to be careful not to block the vents and you'd need a cut out for the bulb door. But the beauty of just doing that mod is that presumably it wouldn't invalidate the warranty (and you could probably peel it off so no-one would know it had ever been stuck on).


Are you sure there's no room for Dynamat on the inside of the top panel? In Kramer's pictures it looks like there would be quite a bit of clearance over most of that area.


If there's not enough room to put Dynamat on the inside face of the top panel, perhaps it would be possible to stick a few layers of it on top of the black plastic cage fan and duct that are visible on the right hand side (looking from the back) of the projector in Kramer's photos. I bet that assembly produces a lot of the noise.


I suppose if you put Dynamat inside the projector and it came unstuck it could do quite a bit of damage though...


Have your mods reduced the buzzing much?


Xander, I actually had two different HS10s and they both worked with the remote bouncing off the wall (white) that I was projecting it onto. Maybe there's a problem with yours. Or you could try a remote like the Pronto which is meant to send IR in all directions.


Marcus
 

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Larry J - thanks again for sending those copies of the bezel removal. You're right about it's 25.5mm thick, but the spec sheet I found on it is 56.8 cfm @ 35dB? I agree the loudest sound source is left front, but I suspect that that is because of not only the Panaflo exhaust fan, but directly behind it is the small side firing fan and one of the cage fans, and thus those noise sources are carried out through this fan's exhaust opening. I really think there is an assembly error in the the HS10 (all units). I now have a front panel parts diagram and it shows the "Fan pad" - a circular pad of rubber material about the size of a quarter, shown attached to the outside of both fan brackets. There is nothing but air on that side! That is why I applied similar material to the side that actually faces the fan motor housing - and I believe that has had some beneficial vibration noise reduction affect.


I don't recall the service manual pages showing that connector (it is a bit confusing to read those diagrams so I may have missed it). However, I think it broke off when I removed the top/side cover which means it was caught on something it shouldn't have. I did try to reattach the very small wire lead socket back onto the small IR pcb - but no luck. It appears to have broken off the pins and I don't have the proper type of soldering equipment for that small of part (1/3 the size of a PC fan header socket). I called Sony today and talked to a guy in parts who located the small IR pcb - Guess what his computer says it will cost me to buy it?????????? $655! That's right, this small, 1.5"x.5" pcb with an IR sensor on one side and a few resistors/components on the other - perhaps $5-$10 in parts costs, is listed for $655, or 1/4th the price of a new projector. The cust service guy couldn't believe it either - the lamp assembly is $249 - I can only imagine what one of the main pcb's would cost - somewhere around $4000 to $5000 based on this one at a minimum! I'd pay $65, but this just ain't right!


My options now are to bring the pcb and wire lead in to my h/w EE friend at work and they would likely be able to rig something up for me. I called my dealer and told him what happened and he called his rep and they said I could return it as a faulty IR unit (don't mention I took the cover off - that technically would likely void the warranty) and have it repaired under warranty. Going the warranty route would entail x weeks of delay and a minor chance they would try to say I broke it.


Xander - I would guess your front IR is not functioning. You could try the batteries, but the remote seems to put out a healthy amount of signal and I never had any problems anywhere in the room using the remote. You have similar options to me - return and wait for factory service or live with having to point at the PJ (like the other components I have which are in my component rack behind me anyway).


Tweaking isn't as much fun when something goes wrong,

dagger
 

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Well, I got that information about the fan from a parts catalog that lists most of those fans, but it could vary I guess, depending on the source.


I was trying to figure out the part number of the board you damaged. The manual, in all it's glory, doesn't actually tell what the circuit boards do, like video, audio, ect. like most service manuals. It just lists letters, like NF. Looking at the schematic does help some. Best I can tell I'm guessing you damage the NF board. That shows a IR circuit, IC 11. It hooks to cn602 with a 3 pin plug, which is right on the front of the large board on top of the unit.


Does that sound about right? I don't really see another small board there, because I know which ones are for the side buttons and top leds.


Part number A-1401-570-A, for that board. No way that price you got quoted is correct. (I HOPE!) I know parts are over priced in general, but not to that degree! I imagine the guy simply had the wrong board on his screen, or just simply a error period.


I can call a Sony distributor for you if you like, but who knows if they will have it listed yet. Sometimes it takes awhile but they could find out maybe if didn't show up. Parts for these PJ's appear to be somewhat different than just a regular Sony product.


I'm guessing though someone could repair that board pretty easy, on what you said about it. Not having one apart so I can see exactly what it really looks like, makes it hard though! I'm a little unsure why the IR works at all, if it's not connected, regardless of where you point the remote. Well, I "probably" could help you with it but I'd have to actually have the board of course.


I agree some noise is coming out through that left side from the other fans, but when that left side fan speeds up, it appears to have a odd whine to it. But that could be some kind of pressure build up I suppose.


Let me know if I can help you in some way.
 

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You got it right Larry - it is the NF board and it's dimensions are about 1 1/2"x1/2", and you're again right - only a couple of components on it. I had 2 reps at Sony Parts look up that part number and they both said $655 - even they couldn't believe. I then had them check the price of the NR board (A-1401-571-A) and it also rang up $655. That's insane and I really hope there is some sort of error in their system. BTW, the NR board is a similar IR pcb that is attached at the rear of the HS10 - that is why the remote still works.


I looked up the Sanyo-Denki fan on the right side - it is also a nice fan running 36 cfm at 27 dB(A). Again it's right up there in the cfm:noise ratio and is amongst the best 80mm fans available. I still think the fan pads were put on incorrectly by the factory and there is no need for that mesh screen on this right side 80mm fan opening. My fear is that putting in a quieter fan than these 2 will necessitate lower cfm's and for some reason this Sony runs hot (on only a 180W bulb) so it may cause heating problems?


So, my wife is NOT happy about the idea of sending this back in and being out of service for 2 weeks or so. That and there is a chance that if Sony looks hard enough they might see some evidence I opened the unit up and thus could deny repair. That would s*ck. So, I'm going to try to see if I can get a new header socket soldered on or have the wire lead directly soldered to the pcb. (Where do I find parts like this for sale?) I will also look to see if there is some way to mount the rear IR sensor to the front - that's all I really need anyway.


I appreciate your offer to help. Tell you what, fix my IR and I'll Colorfacts calibrate your HS10 - now that's a deal unless you charge $655 for parts :D


Cheers,

dagger
 

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Oh, well thats most likely simply a error in the system regarding that board. I called a Sony part distributor and ask the price... kind of a nice round number,, $540.00.. course thats not retail !! Talked to the guy awhile, he said that was listed as a C class board, which usually means some kind of main board. So, thats probably the wrong number, or it's just a blank board.. which kind of means they might not really have it.


This type of Sony product usually have a number on the board itself. I don't have the service manual on this computer, it's at my house, so I can't bring up the picture of the board to see if I can catch a number printed on it.


So, if you got the board out, look to see if what number is on it. Whether it can be figured out or not,, thats still the wrong price. I've known Sony to charge insane prices sometimes.. but I hope they haven't got to ripping people off to that degree!


Each component on the board has a part number also. I wonder if there $100 each?


Dagger, I'll send you a PM regarding maybe helping with the repair.
 

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Larry,


Pulled the board out (again) tonight. It has on one side the stated part number: A-1401-570-A, and on both sides another number: 1-686-292-11. It only has 2 resistors, the small metal encased IR sensor, and the wire lead socket.


Will let you know if my EE hardware friend at work can fix it.


And so what, I've had this unit for a month now - maybe it's time to move on to something else. :D


Cheers,

dagger
 

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Just to be doing it I'll check on that other part number tomorrow. That could be the correct number, lots of Sony parts end in "11". I just looked at the pictures in the manual,, and it does show those numbers, its a actual picture of the board itself, in PDF of course.


But who knows,, both might be bad numbers,, but it so,, it's probably because the unit is still considered new OR they will always be hard to get.


Anyway, like you said, small amount of parts involved.. It just shows a 3 pin connector, capacitor, IC which is the IR, and two chip type smd resistors. Those parts wouldn't cost $10! Actually I think I'll try one of those part numbers also and see what they tell me.


Parts in electronics are kind of becoming a mess it seems.
 
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