First things first. Don't be alarmed I'm a newbie. My HS20 is connected directly to a Bravo via a 5m DVI cable. I'm viewing on 1080i setting. Carada 110" screen. I watched Nemo last night and everything look perfect, but animation looks good on any display. Tonight I watched American Wedding. Upclose images looked fine, but images in the background looked horrible. I'm I just overreacting or is this a problem? I also noticed the picture looked grainy. Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HS20 picture?
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I watched American Wedding about a week ago on my HS20. This isn't a good movie to evaluate how good your picture is. In a lot of scenes the colors are oversaturated. And it's a little dark. I was a little concerned after watching this movie on my projector as well. When I looked in this forum under the DVD section, I saw that others had complained about the same thing. And not just HS20 owners.
Also, those with the HS20 and Bravo. Whenever I stop a DVD and the screen comes up and says you can continue from this point so forth and so on. The letters look terrible. Does anybody else see this? I would think those letters should be crystal clear.
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Zeus,
What you're seeing in the background is a function of the source, the dvd itself.
If you have it, pop in The Two Towers extended edition and go to the scene where Frodo & Sam are climbing to the top of a ridge, it's the 2nd chapter I believe.
Look at the valley and mountains in the background, they should be very sharp and in focus. This is a attributable of the fine transfer job they did.
As time goes on you'll see the "fuzzy" background in most dvds.
It is also a function of color photography. Someone more knowledgeable will be able to explain it better but B&W film has a longer field of focus than color. Many film makers preferred B&W to color for this reason and continued to shoot films in B&W even though color was readily available.
HTH
What you're seeing in the background is a function of the source, the dvd itself.
If you have it, pop in The Two Towers extended edition and go to the scene where Frodo & Sam are climbing to the top of a ridge, it's the 2nd chapter I believe.
Look at the valley and mountains in the background, they should be very sharp and in focus. This is a attributable of the fine transfer job they did.
As time goes on you'll see the "fuzzy" background in most dvds.
It is also a function of color photography. Someone more knowledgeable will be able to explain it better but B&W film has a longer field of focus than color. Many film makers preferred B&W to color for this reason and continued to shoot films in B&W even though color was readily available.
HTH
Also, isn't there a way on the Bravo to scale the picture to 1386 X 788p to match the HS20's resoluton? When you send the sony 1080i it scales it to 1386 X 788. So, first the Bravo is scaling the DVD from 480i to 1080i. Then the Sony is scaling to 788p. Might look better if only the Bravo scaled the picture to 788p.
I recently watched Bruce Almighty on my HS20. The PQ was horrible. It had the opposite problem of American Wedding. It was way to bright and washed out. I rented the DVD and actually thought it might have been a bootleg or something. It looked so bad, I put in Fifth Element just to double check something wasn't wrong with my projector. Oh and the script sucked too!
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I've never read a post indicating that the Bravo can do 1386x788. The only way to avoid double scaling is to set the Bravo to 720 and use straight-thru mode. (But you will have a black border around your picture).
The D2/D3 may provide this resolution though?
I read a post making me think the Momitsu 880 had this resolution but it was never confirmed. Someone did tell me that a new Samsung (3Qtr 2004) is supposed to provide this resolution as a DVI output, but Samsung's DVI player this year (HD931) has some issues that may not be addressed in the "next model".
Personally, I think that a good component player looks pretty darn good on the HS20. It's got such a good scaler the picture may not be improved that much via DVI (the HD931 didn't do much anyway). By the time we get that capability, HD DVD (WM9/BluRay) hopefully be here. And THAT will make a whoooooole lot more difference!
| Originally posted by shadowbox Also, isn't there a way on the Bravo to scale the picture to 1386 X 788p to match the HS20's resoluton? When you send the sony 1080i it scales it to 1386 X 788. So, first the Bravo is scaling the DVD from 480i to 1080i. Then the Sony is scaling to 788p. Might look better if only the Bravo scaled the picture to 788p. |
The D2/D3 may provide this resolution though?
I read a post making me think the Momitsu 880 had this resolution but it was never confirmed. Someone did tell me that a new Samsung (3Qtr 2004) is supposed to provide this resolution as a DVI output, but Samsung's DVI player this year (HD931) has some issues that may not be addressed in the "next model".
Personally, I think that a good component player looks pretty darn good on the HS20. It's got such a good scaler the picture may not be improved that much via DVI (the HD931 didn't do much anyway). By the time we get that capability, HD DVD (WM9/BluRay) hopefully be here. And THAT will make a whoooooole lot more difference!
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OK, third time's the charm 
Could one of you lucky HS20 owners please tell me how large is the overscan if you use an 720p signal as input without the straight-through mode?
I'm concerned by reviews that claim there is an 17% overscan for DVI PAL input and I wonder if this is the same for 720p input.
Could one of you lucky HS20 owners please tell me how large is the overscan if you use an 720p signal as input without the straight-through mode?
I'm concerned by reviews that claim there is an 17% overscan for DVI PAL input and I wonder if this is the same for 720p input.
Couple details for those you in this thread:
1) The text on a DVD (like the menu, etc.) are images, not fonts. The original DVD spec calls for these things to be images so they don't scale very well. When you watch a DVD with a Bravo or other device that scales the image up (720p, 1080i, etc.) the lettering is not going to look good. This is essentially normal and should be expected. Hopefully the text will be changed to a font based system with the HD-DVD or Blu Ray spec (we'll see).
2) GreggPenn, the Bravo D1 supports a few built-in resolutions but, with a firmware upgrade available from VInc you install yourself (free download), you can set any custom output resolution you want, including 1386x788. I have an HS10 and the Bravo and I'm able to specify that exact resolution if I want. Personally I run the Bravo at 720p because I believe the picture looks the best, but that's just my opinion. In any case, the Bravo can and does output custom resolutions with the upgraded firmware.
Hope that helps out a bit.
-jeff
1) The text on a DVD (like the menu, etc.) are images, not fonts. The original DVD spec calls for these things to be images so they don't scale very well. When you watch a DVD with a Bravo or other device that scales the image up (720p, 1080i, etc.) the lettering is not going to look good. This is essentially normal and should be expected. Hopefully the text will be changed to a font based system with the HD-DVD or Blu Ray spec (we'll see).
2) GreggPenn, the Bravo D1 supports a few built-in resolutions but, with a firmware upgrade available from VInc you install yourself (free download), you can set any custom output resolution you want, including 1386x788. I have an HS10 and the Bravo and I'm able to specify that exact resolution if I want. Personally I run the Bravo at 720p because I believe the picture looks the best, but that's just my opinion. In any case, the Bravo can and does output custom resolutions with the upgraded firmware.
Hope that helps out a bit.
-jeff
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Thanks for the update! This is very helpful.
1) I assume you've tried 1386x788 as you imply. Did this fill the entire screen?
2) Since you prefer 720p, are you using straight-thru mode or letting the picture re-scale to 1386x788?
3) What about 720 do you prefer over 788?
P.S. Do you like your Bravo? Is it a "reliable" unit or a "flaky" one? Have you heard if VINC is going to improve the loader problem on the D2/D3?
| Originally posted by jtorello Couple details for those you in this thread: 2) GreggPenn, the Bravo D1 supports a few built-in resolutions but, with a firmware upgrade available from VInc you install yourself (free download), you can set any custom output resolution you want, including 1386x788. I have an HS10 and the Bravo and I'm able to specify that exact resolution if I want. Personally I run the Bravo at 720p because I believe the picture looks the best, but that's just my opinion. In any case, the Bravo can and does output custom resolutions with the upgraded firmware. Hope that helps out a bit. -jeff |
1) I assume you've tried 1386x788 as you imply. Did this fill the entire screen?
2) Since you prefer 720p, are you using straight-thru mode or letting the picture re-scale to 1386x788?
3) What about 720 do you prefer over 788?
P.S. Do you like your Bravo? Is it a "reliable" unit or a "flaky" one? Have you heard if VINC is going to improve the loader problem on the D2/D3?
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Quote:
There's not a lot of PAL users around here, so you might not get any answers.
This isn't what you want, but I'll mention it for others who are interested in the overscan issue.
On the component input, I was able to manually adjust the horizontal overscan down to under 1% on both the left and right sides. However, the vertical size is not adjustable, so for my source the overscan was just under 5% on both the bottom and top.
I haven't bothered measuring the overscan for 720p on DVI, because I always use 'computer DVI' and 'full through' for 720p since it seems to minimize the motion artifacts. However, I doubt it is 17% for 720p in full panel mode because every time I have actually checked the overscan, the 10% "safe title" area has always been fully displayed.
Sorry I wasn't able to actually address your question.
| Originally posted by 0xdeadbeef OK, third time's the charm Could one of you lucky HS20 owners please tell me how large is the overscan if you use an 720p signal as input without the straight-through mode? I'm concerned by reviews that claim there is an 17% overscan for DVI PAL input and I wonder if this is the same for 720p input. |
There's not a lot of PAL users around here, so you might not get any answers.
This isn't what you want, but I'll mention it for others who are interested in the overscan issue.
On the component input, I was able to manually adjust the horizontal overscan down to under 1% on both the left and right sides. However, the vertical size is not adjustable, so for my source the overscan was just under 5% on both the bottom and top.
I haven't bothered measuring the overscan for 720p on DVI, because I always use 'computer DVI' and 'full through' for 720p since it seems to minimize the motion artifacts. However, I doubt it is 17% for 720p in full panel mode because every time I have actually checked the overscan, the 10% "safe title" area has always been fully displayed.
Sorry I wasn't able to actually address your question.
OK, I figured out how to get the firmware upgrade. It isn't downloadable and you have to provide them with your serial number since the firmware upgrade will actually *cause* problems on the earliest models. I contacted their customer support department by e-mail and they are sending out the upgrade to me.
Sorry for the delay folks, traveling for work lately.
traveler the firmware update used to be posted right on the VInc site. Looks like you got in touch with them and they're sending it to you anyway, you should be all set.
Gregg,
1) Yes I tried it and it mostly filled the screen, there was a small border around the image that I could probably fix by zooming but I never bothered, I didn't like the picture as much as 720p so there was no point.
2) I'm letting the HS10 scale the image up to fill my 100" screen
3) In my opinion the colors look better and the picture is much less grainy in 720p. When I first got the Bravo I had a showing of Two Towers. I work with a pretty technical bunch of folks and invited 10 of them over to watch it with me. Before we watched the movie I showed them the various Bravo modes (480p, 720p, 1080i, and full panel resolution).
It wasn't a scientific comparison by any means but everyone agreed that the 720p image looked better than all of the others, the colors looked more accurate and bright, the dark scenes looked better (clear, able to discern detail, etc.). Needless to say we watched Two Towers in 720p and I've watched everything else that way since then.
As for your postscript, before I answer I should mention that I'm a computer geek by trade and I have a pretty high tolerance for bugs, workarounds and the like.
Do I like my Bravo? Yes - I love the picture I get from it
Is it reliable or flaky? (I'm laughing as I type this) It's flaky, without a doubt. However, I have only ever run into one DVD that I couldn't watch on it (something we rented for my 5yr old daughter, don't remember what it was).
If I'm persistent I can get any movie to play, usually by cycling the power on the unit (not from the remote, the real power button - the remote puts it into standby). Does that annoy me? Usually at the time I'm not real happy about it but I don't really have anything to complain about - I heard the stories of the issues with the unit before I bought it, I went in with my eyes open knowing I might have to "fiddle" with it to get it to work sometimes. Would I prefer it just work perfectly every time? Of course, but I'm got lots more important things to focus my time on - if I wanna watch a DVD I can, it might take an extra minute to cycle the power, but I'm fine with that. I suspect the issue is with the loader and that I could solve it by swapping out the loader like others in the forum have done. It hasn't bothered me enough yet for me to spend the time on it, maybe it will down the road.
I haven't heard anything personally on the D2 but I'd really hope they resolve the issues on the next model. Overall it's a great unit, they just need to fix two things, the loader problems and the damn remote. The remote sucks...really
traveler the firmware update used to be posted right on the VInc site. Looks like you got in touch with them and they're sending it to you anyway, you should be all set.
Gregg,
1) Yes I tried it and it mostly filled the screen, there was a small border around the image that I could probably fix by zooming but I never bothered, I didn't like the picture as much as 720p so there was no point.
2) I'm letting the HS10 scale the image up to fill my 100" screen
3) In my opinion the colors look better and the picture is much less grainy in 720p. When I first got the Bravo I had a showing of Two Towers. I work with a pretty technical bunch of folks and invited 10 of them over to watch it with me. Before we watched the movie I showed them the various Bravo modes (480p, 720p, 1080i, and full panel resolution).
It wasn't a scientific comparison by any means but everyone agreed that the 720p image looked better than all of the others, the colors looked more accurate and bright, the dark scenes looked better (clear, able to discern detail, etc.). Needless to say we watched Two Towers in 720p and I've watched everything else that way since then.
As for your postscript, before I answer I should mention that I'm a computer geek by trade and I have a pretty high tolerance for bugs, workarounds and the like.
Do I like my Bravo? Yes - I love the picture I get from it
Is it reliable or flaky? (I'm laughing as I type this) It's flaky, without a doubt. However, I have only ever run into one DVD that I couldn't watch on it (something we rented for my 5yr old daughter, don't remember what it was).
If I'm persistent I can get any movie to play, usually by cycling the power on the unit (not from the remote, the real power button - the remote puts it into standby). Does that annoy me? Usually at the time I'm not real happy about it but I don't really have anything to complain about - I heard the stories of the issues with the unit before I bought it, I went in with my eyes open knowing I might have to "fiddle" with it to get it to work sometimes. Would I prefer it just work perfectly every time? Of course, but I'm got lots more important things to focus my time on - if I wanna watch a DVD I can, it might take an extra minute to cycle the power, but I'm fine with that. I suspect the issue is with the loader and that I could solve it by swapping out the loader like others in the forum have done. It hasn't bothered me enough yet for me to spend the time on it, maybe it will down the road.
I haven't heard anything personally on the D2 but I'd really hope they resolve the issues on the next model. Overall it's a great unit, they just need to fix two things, the loader problems and the damn remote.
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