[jacksonian]

Just happened to check PJC this afternoon and caught a new update from Evan. Says everyone wants to know where the HS20 review is. He says they're having some anomalies with their unit, so they want a 2nd for review.


1) The HS20 they have is significantly dimmer than the Z2, even though the spec is 1400 lumens. Like 1/2 of their Z2 on hand.


2) Very poor 480 component output.


He commented that this was very unusual for Sony and that there must be some problem with their unit.


However, this sounds strangely familiar. The 500/HS20 shootout that Darin and Brent posted back in the fall also mentioned that the HS20 was dimmer than the 500, didn't it?

 

[GreggPenn]

Quote:

Originally posted by jacksonian ....However, this sounds strangely familiar. The 500/HS20 shootout that Darin and Brent posted back in the fall also mentioned that the HS20 was dimmer than the 500, didn't it?

You remember correctly.


However, (after that shootout) Darin said he didn't know what bulb mode the HS20 was in. Since they were shooting for a comparison in maximum contrast mode, I suspect they compared the HS20's low mode with IRIS on to the L500U's higher brightness AI mode. In this case the HS20 is quite a bit dimmer (see link below).


I also suspect that PJCentral's L500U test unit had a weak bulb. The L300U made it to 600 lumens last year while the L500U only squeaks 400 according to Evan. With the same bulb, it seems too low. (Or maybe Evan's light meter is on the fritz).


Darin did not mention a problem with component input on the HS20 either. So I don't think Evan's sample exhibits the same problem seen anywhere else.


Finally, there is a post in a recent Z2 vs. HS20 thread stating that the HS20 was measured at 996 lumens in high bulb mode (per a German magazine). You can find that post here. This should help to demonstrate the Evan's sample is indeed defective (unless he's talking about cinema mode comparisons).


Edit: Found link and posted it above.

 

[jacksonian]

Disclaimer: I know this is likely a defective unit and I'm not trying to get anyone upset here. I thought about this though:


Maybe Panasonic and Sanyo should buy Sony's LCD panels and Sony should buy Panasonic or Sanyo's lamps! Or maybe one of you more technologically adept members could make a PanaSony HS500 or a Sonyanyo ZS20 that was half of each. Then we'd have the world's greatest LCD projector!

 

[rlindo]

Or maybe Sony should quit lying about their lumen specs.


Hopefully he did get a bad unit.

 

[velvetpoet]

Yeah but where are the other reviews. He keeps commenting on the boxlight but no review. maybe there will be another update this week.

 

[jacksonian]

What other review are you talking about? He did the Z2/Boxlight weeks ago and did the Z2/AE500 as well. Which review do you want?

 

[daggerNC]

Hey - this is encouraging! One can always question if a review unit sent by the manufacturer is truely an "off the shelf" unit like we can buy or a hand selected or even tweaked unit. Looks like Sony is sending standard units!


dagger

 

[velvetpoet]

i apologize i got the name mixed up i mean the philips Bcool. Hes hinted at it for weeks waiting for the fix.

 

[Scrimpin]

Quote:

Originally posted by daggerNC Hey - this is encouraging! One can always question if a review unit sent by the manufacturer is truely an "off the shelf" unit like we can buy or a hand selected or even tweaked unit. Looks like Sony is sending standard units! dagger

Actually, I would prefer to think the unit they sent was not standard.

 

[Mercer]

What I find interesting is the assumption that the Sony would be as bright as the Sanyo while both are calibrated for "cinema" setting. The Sony hasn't got the lamp modulation trick, and hence it won't have the max brightness of the Sanyo in "cinema" mode. The fact that the Sony *can* be less bright than the Sanyo is in my book actually a big plus, since it means that you can use it in rooms with good light control. I do hope that Evan has taken this into account while doing the comparisions.


The Sony has got 1300 in contrast *without* lamp modulation, while the Epson panels have about 800:1 without lamp modulation. (Judging by the Epson TW-200 which is the only Dreamio panel without lamp modulation.)


Regards,

Tore K.

 

[TomHuffman]

Here's how my calibrated HS20 measured. The theoretical maximums would, of course, be considerably higher.


Lamp Low Iris On: 293 lumens

Lamp Low Iris Off: 428 lumens

Lamp High Iris On: 348 lumens

Lamp High Iris Off: 525 lumens


With a 80-inch wide Matte White screen, this translates to:

Lamp Low Iris On (default setting): 11.72 FtL

Lamp Low Iris Off: 17.1 FtL

Lamp High Iris On: 13.9 FtL

Lamp High Iris Off: 21 FtL


Commercial theaters generally specify 12-20 FtL.


The component output is flawless. My only criticism of this model is that its measured specs (lumens and CR) seem to exhibit a very wide unit-to-unit variation.

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercer What I find interesting is the assumption that the Sony would be as bright as the Sanyo while both are calibrated for "cinema" setting. The Sony hasn't got the lamp modulation trick, and hence it won't have the max brightness of the Sanyo in "cinema" mode. The fact that the Sony *can* be less bright than the Sanyo is in my book actually a big plus, since it means that you can use it in rooms with good light control. I do hope that Evan has taken this into account while doing the comparisions. The Sony has got 1300 in contrast *without* lamp modulation, while the Epson panels have about 800:1 without lamp modulation. (Judging by the Epson TW-200 which is the only Dreamio panel without lamp modulation.) Regards, Tore K.

By what I have been able to ascertain reading various reports, the Sanyo Z2, the Panny 500, and the HS20 measure real world under 1000:1 contrast ratio. The exception being an overseas benchmark on the Panny with the AI mode on actually reaching over 1200:1.

 

[George_Stenbeck]

There is something wrong with that unit. I had an HS20 for a few weeks and now my brother in law has it.


Component via Denon dvd player was excellent, DVI via HTPC was even better and comparing the Sony in bright mode to my SX21, it was hard to tell the difference in lum. If i remember correctly the sony was independently tested and with Iris closed, cinema pro option(what ever they call it) it measured 650 lum.


Now keep in mind i was not happy with the HS20 so i bought the JVC SX21, but it performed better than any of the HS10's that i have seen.

 

[jacksonian]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercer The Sony hasn't got the lamp modulation trick, and hence it won't have the max brightness of the Sanyo in "cinema" mode. The Sony has got 1300 in contrast *without* lamp modulation, while the Epson panels have about 800:1 without lamp modulation. The fact that the Sony *can* be less bright than the Sanyo is in my book actually a big plus, since it means that you can use it in rooms with good light control.

1) I started a thread to ask this question because I don't think the Z2 has any lamp modulation. The Panny 500 does. The Z2 had the aperture adjustment like the iris on the Sony I believe. Note: I do not own this pj so I don't know for sure, but I can't find any mention of lamp modulation in the reviews or specs.


2) I don't know that having less brightness is ever a good thing. You can certainly use a Sanyo PLV70 with 2200 lumens in a light controlled room. I don't think it's a plus. You can always close an iris or put on a filter if you want to make it darker, but you can't add any lumens to make it brighter. Just my opinion.

 

[pepar]

Quote:

Originally posted by TomHuffman Here's how my calibrated HS20 measured. The theoretical maximums would, of course, be considerably higher. Lamp Low Iris On: 293 lumens Lamp Low Iris Off: 428 lumens Lamp High Iris On: 348 lumens Lamp High Iris Off: 525 lumens With a 80-inch wide Matte White screen, this translates to: Lamp Low Iris On (default setting): 11.72 FtL Lamp Low Iris Off: 17.1 FtL Lamp High Iris On: 13.9 FtL Lamp High Iris Off: 21 FtL Commercial theaters generally specify 12-20 FtL. The component output is flawless. My only criticism of this model is that its measured specs (lumens and CR) seem to exhibit a very wide unit-to-unit variation.

Pardon my density, but what is the function/benefit of an iris adjustment? With a totally light controlled room, would I benefit (better blacks/higher CR) using lamp low? (Is that what they are calling Cinema Black?)


The screen is a Stewart THX micro-perfed Firehawk at 92" wide. There is a 10.2% light reduction with the perfing.

 

[TomHuffman]

Somewhat higher CR, though considerably lower light output.

 

[pepar]

Thanks. Any thoughts on whether or not the HS20 has a higher CR than Sanyo PLV-70 when at max light output?

 

[Mercer]

Quote:

Originally posted by jacksonian 2) I don't know that having less brightness is ever a good thing. You can certainly use a Sanyo PLV70 with 2200 lumens in a light controlled room. I don't think it's a plus. You can always close an iris or put on a filter if you want to make it darker, but you can't add any lumens to make it brighter. Just my opinion.

Hmm, I emphasize that I stated "*can* be" as in "able to be". If 2 projectors have the same contrast ratio, but different light outputs, the one with less light will have the least grey dark when the screen is supposed to be totally dark. Neither the Z2 nor the HS-20 is able to achieve CRT blacks, hence the ability to come closer to the CRT black is important in my book. Now, I'm not stating that the Z2 actually *is* brighter than the HS-20, I'm just saying that it isn't always positive to be brighter. I'm also assuming that the HS-20 is able to be both brighter than the Z2 in it's maximum setting and less bright than the Z2 in it's minimum setting. These are only assumptions based on the comments made by Evan in regards to calibrated light output, and on the fact that the HS-20 has got a more powerful bulb.


Either way, these are all speculations based on theoretical numbers.


Regards,

Tore K.

 

[Mercer]

Just to see the differences in color accuracy, check out this comparision:

The Sanyo Z2:
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...-Z2/Z2Test.htm

The Sony HS-20:
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...PLHS20Test.htm


The difference is staggering, especially after the HS-20 is calibrated.


The calibrated contrast of the HS-20 is 860:1(max 1220:1), while the Z2 is at 650:1 without lamp modulation, and a little over 700 using lamp modulation according to this test.


Here are some "snapshots":

Out-of-the-box Sanyo Z2:
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...-Z2/Bild18.JPG


Out of the box cinema setting Sony HS-20:
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...S20/Bild26.JPG


Calibrated "by eye" Sony HS-20:
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...S20/Bild28.JPG


After extensive calibration of the Sanyo Z2 they added this chart:
http://www.cine4home.de/TippsTricks/Z2-Tuning/pic5.jpg


Regards,

Tore K.


EDIT: Added correct URL adresses, and included some direct links to their color accuracy chart.

 

[jacksonian]

All I got was:


error 404: Datei nicht gefunden!

Das angegebene Dokument konnte auf diesem Server leider nicht gefunden werden.


But I'd love to see it. I can't believe any difference between the two would be staggering, unless you're easily staggered.