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HSU 2.3 vs. Outlaw LFM-1 Plus

4792 Views 37 Replies 21 Participants Last post by pianoplayer1, Jun 1, 2007

jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · May 19, 2007

I know I just need to pull the trigger because each day I come on here I see new options. From reading and searching here I had made up my mind to purchase the 2.3. It seems to be loved by all and the great customer service behind it just makes it stand out that much more.

Then I came upon the Outlaw. Designed by Dr. Hsu himself and an almost carbon copy of the 2.3 size wise but with more power ( I know it is more closely related to the discontinued 3.2 ). I also like the downfiring ports since the sub will be mounted in the left front corner of the room. I am not sure if the bottom mounted ports is an advantage or disadvantage over the 2.3 in performance though.

I have been able to read many opinions and reviews on the Hsu subs but find only one review on the Outlaw. I also worry about the customer service from outlaw although I have seen postings from Peter, the owner, that reflect positively on the company.

My room is 12'Wx17'Dx10'H. It is a dedicated ht. It will be used for 95% movies and 5% music. My system consists of a Yamaha RXV-2500, (2) Infinity Beta 50's, (2) Beta ES250's, and a Beta 360 center.

If the Outlaw wasn't on sale I would get the 2.3 hands down. At the current sale price of $499 the water becomes considerably murkier. I am looking for anyone that has either one of these or preferably someone who has auditioned both. At the LFM-1 Plus's current price I know there has to be others with this same comparison so here is a thread for it. Thank you for all replies.

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

tonygeno

· #2 · May 19, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscoggin /forum/post/0

I also worry about the customer service from outlaw although I have seen postings from Peter, the owner, that reflect positively on the company.

Misplaced worry: Outlaw's customer service is excellent and they have a track record. Peter Tribeman the President of Outlaw is also the President of Atlantic Technology and has been in the business for over 30 years. Buy with confidence.

davidimdpt

· #3 · May 19, 2007

I was in the same position as you a couple of weeks ago. Search my posts and you'll see the same exact question and people's responses. In the end I chose the outlaw because it fit right in between the 2.3 and the 3.3 with a 2.3 price. I also wanted a Hsu subwoofer based on all the reviews but decided on the outlaw because it was designed by Dr. hsu himself and the 2.3 is really not upgradeable to turbo at this time without DIY modifications. We also have an Outlaw thread now because I thought it would have helped me with these kind of questions. I'm just waiting for Peter to chime in

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jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 19, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidimdpt /forum/post/0

I was in the same position as you a couple of weeks ago. Search my posts and you'll see the same exact question and people's responses. In the end I chose the outlaw because it fit right in between the 2.3 and the 3.3 with a 2.3 price. I also wanted a Hsu subwoofer based on all the reviews but decided on the outlaw because it was designed by Dr. hsu himself and the 2.3 is really not upgradeable to turbo at this time without DIY modifications. We also have an Outlaw thread now because I thought it would have helped me with these kind of questions. I'm just waiting for Peter to chime in

Thank you for your reply. Are you happy with the Outlaw? I notice that you don't mention how satisfied you are or are not with it's performance. I have been following all of the threads concerning the Outlaw but have yet to see anyone actually step up and say that it is a great sub. Hsu owners trip all over themselves to brag. Granted this is usually in the higher models, 3.3 and up. I'd like feedback from people that have heard both of the LFM-1 Plus and the Hsu 2.3 if possible. I am sure they are both great and both will fit my space perfectly (16"W is a maximum for door opening clearance).

I can't imagine ever needing to upgrade or add a HO. I have a Polk 10" RM series sub now that the wife gets upset about. I'm sure that any of the subs that are mentioned here a substantial upgrade. I don't want to shake the whole house although I love bass. I just want enough deep and quality bass to give me a movie theater experience.

Oh yeah, I'd like to do it for about $500 which is chump change around here.

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Peter Tribeman

· #5 · May 19, 2007

jmscoggin,

Whether you buy an Outlaw or a Hsu you are going to have a great sub-period.We asked Dr Hsu to design our subs because he is a brilliant acoustics engineer and a straight shooter. He is genuinely one of the nicest people I have met in my career. We have been friends for many years. We often have good- natured "arguments" as to which approach is better-down firing or side firing ports. (Both, by the way, have advantages and disadvantages.) One thing is for sure: Both of our companies treat our customers as members of our respective extended families.

The reason for our "show special" price of $499 on the LFM-1 plus is to significantly reduce the inventory to make room for the LFM-EX, a larger sub that will go a bit lower and play slightly louder. At the end of this month the price of the LFM- 1 plus will go back up, not to $679, but certainly higher than the current price. No matter which way you go, Hsu or Outlaw, you will not lose.

Peter Tribeman

Outlaw Audio

jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 19, 2007

Peter,

Thank you for your response. It isn't every day that when you are kicking the tires on a new purchase that the president of the company chimes in personally. That in and of itself says a lot about you and your company.

My main concern is all of the information that I have read relates more to this sub as a 'value' for the $499 price point. I haven't seen a lot of people say 'this sub is great no matter what'. It wasn't until the price drop that I even became aware of it even though it has been around awhile. Hsu subs are roundly praised regardless of being on sale or not.

I know your sub was designed by Dr. Hsu so I am sure that it is every bit as good. I am just a little perplexed as to the lack of pre price drop buzz.

I am very interested in the pros and cons of the down firing vs. side firing ports if you have the time to summarize your opinion. I am not a hardcore audiophile so it probably will not make a noticeable difference but I do a lot of research before making any purchase and would like to know.

Due to the dimensions and price of the LFM-1 Plus, as well as the obvious pride and professionalism that shows through by you on your posts, I am leaning strongly toward the Outlaw. I am the kind of person that does not like having to return anything. Therefore as I mentioned before I do as much studying as possible before deciding on something.

I want to thank you again for taking the time to respond to me. Talk about good customer service.

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Peter Tribeman

· #7 · May 19, 2007

jmscoggin,

Thank you for your kind words.

As for the down firing/side firing port debate, I think I will leave that to others on this forum. Other than explaining a particular situation, (such as our own temporary price drop) it is our belief to leave the forums for the end users and potential customers. In the past, there has been abuse by some companies to get their people on forums and push their products. We are pretty sensitive to that issue and prefer to remain on the sidelines. Interestingly, Dr Hsu believes the same.

Peter Tribeman

Outlaw Audio

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jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 19, 2007

Peter,

Thank you again for such a prompt and professional reply. You have completely alleviated any customer service or company pride issues I might have had.

That leaves me to just get some direct comparison feedback on these two subs. From what I've been able to gather I can't go wrong either way. I would still like to hear that affirmed by someone that has heard both though.

I know the LFM-1 Plus is more of a descendant of the discontinued 3.2. Is its replacement (2.3) better than the 3.2? If yes, wouldn't that mean that the 2.3 is also better than the LFM-1 Plus? Are the differences negligible enough that the great current price on the Plus makes it the best choice? Price is the same so which one performs the best? Someone out there has to have heard them both.

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amdeutsch

· #9 · May 20, 2007

FWIW

It appears that the HSU 2.3, 3.2 and the 3.3 all use the same driver. What is different between them is the cabinet, ports and amp. Port changes where done because of reported noise issues with the 350W amp - WAG on my part. Cabinet changes where required by the increase in port diameter/length - one reason but I'm sure not the only one. Difference between 250W and 350W is approximate 1dB +/-. Might gain/loose that much by placement within room.

HTH

jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 21, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by amdeutsch /forum/post/0

FWIW

It appears that the HSU 2.3, 3.2 and the 3.3 all use the same driver. What is different between them is the cabinet, ports and amp. Port changes where done because of reported noise issues with the 350W amp - WAG on my part. Cabinet changes where required by the increase in port diameter/length - one reason but I'm sure not the only one. Difference between 250W and 350W is approximate 1dB +/-. Might gain/loose that much by placement within room.

HTH

This is all great information for reference. What I really need though is real world evaluation. I don't care so much about size/locations of ports, amp wattage or anything like that. What I need to know is which one performs better. There must be a reason Dr. Hsu discontinued the 3.2 for the 2.3. Is this new design better than the old even if the old has more power?

I am sure they are both great subs. Having said that I want whichever one is the BEST sub of the two. I have established that both companies have great customer service and both have the same great engineering. All that aside one surely has to be better than the other even if just by a nose. Everything else, even the price is the same. I want that nose.

I know people here spend much much more than $500 for a sub and all of this may sound trivial to them. For me this is a lot of money and this sub will be a part of my system for 10+ years or until it dies. Upgrading with each new model year isn't going to happen with me so I want the best sub my budget will allow.

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Pineapple

· #11 · May 21, 2007

Im in the same boat as you jmscoggin. Whatever the outcome of this thread is the sub Im going to get! Hopefully we will have our answers before the end of this month (supposedly when the LFM-1 sale ends).

CEGUY

· #12 · May 21, 2007

Comparing the two subs, they seem nearly identical except for the form factor. The LFM-1 does have an additional 100 watts. In the real world that might mean 1 dB more output. That is not a night and day difference. Very tough call. But on June 1, the subs will no longer share the same price. Outlaw says the $499 promo is over at the end of this month. Decisions....

jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #13 · May 21, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by CEGUY /forum/post/0

Comparing the two subs, they seem nearly identical except for the form factor. The LFM-1 does have an additional 100 watts. In the real world that might mean 1 dB more output. That is not a night and day difference. Very tough call. But on June 1, the subs will no longer share the same price. Outlaw says the $499 promo is over at the end of this month. Decisions....

This is why I am pushing to get replies asap. If the LFM-1 Plus goes back up in price then it is a slam dunk for the Hsu 2.3. The sale price of the Outlaw is the only thing causing this dilemma for me. Now if only I could get some performance reviews instead of just technical analysis.

It does concern me that with all of my requests for owners to brag about this sub I am ending up empty. If I started a post about an SVS or Hsu sub I wouldn't be able to read the new posts fast enough to keep up.

One way or another I'll order one of these by the end of the month. Peter reflected highly to me on himself and his company but the lack of actual customer bravado definitely concerns me. People love to brag about there equipment ( no pun intended ) especially here, but I can't even draw them out now.

To be completely fair I just realized that I haven't had any Hsu fanboys chime in yet either. I am not sure why I am being more critical of the Outlaw. Long term reputation I guess. Why is everyone being shy? If you own or have heard one or both of these subs stand up on the rooftops and shout about it. There are dollars waiting to be spent on your opinions.

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ripg0810

· #14 · May 21, 2007

Well, I'm almost in the same boat. I just pulled the trigger on the Outlaw Plus sub and it should arrive today or tomorrow. I currently have a Boston Acoustics PV 700, it has a 12" sub and a 200 watt amplifier. I will post my impressions once I run it through its paces. I hope to be satisfied but, if not I'll return the outlaw and give the HSU 3.3 a try. My room is 25x15x10.

Good Luck!

Rene

sn_85

· #15 · May 21, 2007

2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscoggin /forum/post/0

This is why I am pushing to get replies asap. If the LFM-1 Plus goes back up in price then it is a slam dunk for the Hsu 2.3. The sale price of the Outlaw is the only thing causing this dilemma for me. Now if only I could get some performance reviews instead of just technical analysis.

It does concern me that with all of my requests for owners to brag about this sub I am ending up empty. If I started a post about an SVS or Hsu sub I wouldn't be able to read the new posts fast enough to keep up.

One way or another I'll order one of these by the end of the month. Peter reflected highly to me on himself and his company but the lack of actual customer bravado definitely concerns me. People love to brag about there equipment ( no pun intended ) especially here, but I can't even draw them out now.

To be completely fair I just realized that I haven't had any Hsu fanboys chime in yet either. I am not sure why I am being more critical of the Outlaw. Long term reputation I guess. Why is everyone being shy? If you own or have heard one or both of these subs stand up on the rooftops and shout about it. There are dollars waiting to be spent on your opinions.

i would check to see if outlaw has a return policy or some risk free trial period. really i dont think you can go wrong on either one but being as the LFM1-Plus is relatively new you might not get as many responses. I would say most people associate outlaw with preamps and amps and hsu and svs are specialize in subs. So history does play a bit of a factor in people going with hsu or svs and perhaps unaware outlaw makes a great sub. these decisions make you mad sometimes huh

. I suggest stop wracking your brains over it, get the LFM-1 + and be happy

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jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 21, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by sn_85 /forum/post/0

i would check to see if outlaw has a return policy or some risk free trial period. really i dont think you can go wrong on either one but being as the LFM1-Plus is relatively new you might not get as many responses. I would say most people associate outlaw with preamps and amps and hsu and svs are specialize in subs. So history does play a bit of a factor in people going with hsu or svs and perhaps unaware outlaw makes a great sub. these decisions make you mad sometimes huh

. I suggest stop wracking your brains over it, get the LFM-1 + and be happy

Very good advice, thank you. My problem is my house won't be completed until the middle of July. My media room won't be set up until probably a couple of weeks later. If I buy now I am sure that puts me out of the return window. If I wait then it won't be on sale.

The LFM-1 Plus really isn't that new. They already even have a replacement for it in the wings. As mentioned before I am sure it's a good sub and I'd be happy with it. The question is if I'd be more happy with the 2.3.

jeffrey r

· #17 · May 21, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscoggin /forum/post/0

This is why I am pushing to get replies asap. If the LFM-1 Plus goes back up in price then it is a slam dunk for the Hsu 2.3. The sale price of the Outlaw is the only thing causing this dilemma for me. Now if only I could get some performance reviews instead of just technical analysis.

The reality is, you're not likely to get a definitive answer either way, and there may not be many people who have heard both subs. On the other hand, it's not like you're comparing a Kenwood HTIB sub with a Hsu. You're comparing a Hsu-designed sub from a great company, Outlaw, and a Hsu sub from Hsu.

Being an SVS owner, I've never heard a Hsu or Outlaw sub, but safe to say, they'll both sound great. If you buy the Outlaw, and never hear the Hsu, I'd be quite surprised if you ever felt you got a less than stellar sub. And vice versa.

Being that I'll be in the market for a new sub in the coming months, I've looked at Outlaw, Hsu, and of course SVS. I know how good my SVS sub is, but I'd feel very comfortable going with Outlaw or Hsu based on the reports of owners. I'll miss this $499 sale due to my timing, but the LFM-1 Plus would be a definite contender for me.

Anyway, good luck getting the answers you want, but like most of us, you'll end up taking a leap of faith without definitive answers (and will surely end up satisfied either way).

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lvisneau

· #18 · May 22, 2007

jmscoggin said:
If the LFM-1 Plus goes back up in price then it is a slam dunk for the Hsu 2.3. The sale price of the Outlaw is the only thing causing this dilemma for me.

it sounds to me like you feel that the hsu is the better sub. if you buy the outlaw will you wish you got the hsu? will you miss the few dollars more you spent for that long? those are things that would drive me crazy. i had a similar dillema, i ended up w/ the hsu 3.3 and it exceeds all my needs. yes it shakes my house. i'm waiting for the neighbors to come a knockin. you can't go wrong w/ these subs. hsu and svs have a great reputation around here for a reason, they are real performance for the $. i would go with your gut felling. whats that saying about the sweetness of low price? (i'm not knockin outlaw here).

jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #19 · May 22, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvisneau /forum/post/0

it sounds to me like you feel that the hsu is the better sub. if you buy the outlaw will you wish you got the hsu? will you miss the few dollars more you spent for that long? those are things that would drive me crazy. i had a similar dillema, i ended up w/ the hsu 3.3 and it exceeds all my needs. yes it shakes my house. i'm waiting for the neighbors to come a knockin. you can't go wrong w/ these subs. hsu and svs have a great reputation around here for a reason, they are real performance for the $. i would go with your gut felling. whats that saying about the sweetness of low price? (i'm not knockin outlaw here).

You are right, I do feel the Hsu is a better sub. The reality is that it's strictly a feeling that got develpoped by trolling this site. I have never heard a sub from either company. From what I gather there shouldn't be any remorse down the road. For the money they should both perform admirably for my needs. I know the outlaw's sale price is better but in reality the subs should probably be priced about the same anyways. The 2.3 has the newer design while the LFM-1 Plus has more power.

I know the power is negligable but every increment step down however small adds up. If my space allowed it I would buy the Hsu 3.3. Therefore, I am already dropping down a lot so the difference is just that much more.

There has to be a reason that after designing the LFM-1 Plus and the Hsu 3.2 that Dr. Hsu decided to change the design. He wouldn't have changed it if it wasn't an improvement.

No knock on Outlaw from me either. Peter has represented himself greatly and the sub was designed by Dr. Hsu so in reality I have no concerns from that direction. It really comes down 100% on performance and my mind tells me that newer technology is usually better.

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jmscoggin

Discussion Starter · #20 · May 22, 2007

Great, I know it doesn't fit in my space very neatly but I just noticed the Hsu 3.3 is on sale. Like I needed more to think about.

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