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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey


Im thinking about buying a MBM-12 from HSU.. but im not sure if it's needed. So would be nice with some opinions on that matter..



This is my room:



I use a H/K 5550 Receiver (7x75W) with these speakers:


Klipsch RF-5 (front)

Klipsch RC-7 (center)

Klipsch RF-25 (surround)

Tannoy Mercury something (surround)


And a SVS PB12 Ultra.


As you can see from the picture, I can have 2 locations. But only one location for my Ultra, really (that is where it sounds best). The way my current setup is, I sit like 20-50cm away from the subwoofer. I got plenty of bass, I also got some chest-hitting-bass - --> but not as much I would like to have.


My 'father-in-law' rents out PA stuff for bands etc. So I've helped him set it up several times - and when the bands are practicing, they (or, we) often play with the volume etc, - when the drummer then starts playing fast... THUB THUB THUB THUB , you feel every hit in your chest. HARD...
This is what I miss, and this is what I would like. The Klipsch speakers do this, to some degree, but not as much as I would want.


Will the HSU MBM give more of that "THUB" in my chest? Will it be able to do so at HIGH volumes ? And then we have the placement/room issues.. I would have to put the MBM next to the PB12U, - would I experience lots of phase issues by doing so ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower /forum/post/0


Hey


Im thinking about buying a MBM-12 from HSU.. but im not sure if it's needed. So would be nice with some opinions on that matter..



This is my room:



I use a H/K 5550 Receiver (7x75W) with these speakers:


Klipsch RF-5 (front)

Klipsch RC-7 (center)

Klipsch RF-25 (surround)

Tannoy Mercury something (surround)


And a SVS PB12 Ultra.


As you can see from the picture, I can have 2 locations. But only one location for my Ultra, really (that is where it sounds best). The way my current setup is, I sit like 20-50cm away from the subwoofer. I got plenty of bass, I also got some chest-hitting-bass - --> but not as much I would like to have.


My 'father-in-law' rents out PA stuff for bands etc. So I've helped him set it up several times - and when the bands are practicing, they (or, we) often play with the volume etc, - when the drummer then starts playing fast... THUB THUB THUB THUB , you feel every hit in your chest. HARD...
This is what I miss, and this is what I would like. The Klipsch speakers do this, to some degree, but not as much as I would want.


Will the HSU MBM give more of that "THUB" in my chest? Will it be able to do so at HIGH volumes ? And then we have the placement/room issues.. I would have to put the MBM next to the PB12U, - would I experience lots of phase issues by doing so ?

Yes, I am wondering the same thing. It seems logical to get this if that is what you want...
 

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Personally, I don't subscribe to this whole theory of the MBM. If you measure your in room response at the listening postion and it is +/- 3 db, then you should have little or no need for anything else in the system. If your response is not within limits then try an affordable EQ solution to flatten things out.


Subwoofers by their very nature are stongest in the 30-50Hz range already, especially the SVS offerings. So, I guess I just don't understand the logic. If you have enough sub for the room then why would you need another for midbass? If you don't have enough sub you would be better served to get a better sub.


Adding another active speaker into the mix can create a whole mix of other problems as well. Besides if you want to color the sound by making the 20-50Hz range artificially high, then you can still use and EQ for that. In fact, you could use the PEQ built into to the Ultra.


Have you callibrated your system or measured the response?


That is my $.02 worth, I am sure there are others that will disagree. I just don't get it...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0


Personally, I don't subscribe to this whole theory of the MBM. If you measure your in room response at the listening postion and it is +/- 3 db, then you should have little or no need for anything else in the system. If your response is not within limits then try an affordable EQ solution to flatten things out.

I believe the purpose of the MBM is to satisfy the tastes of the consumer by providing strong output around the 50hz-100hz region. When I say tastes I mean warm midbass with high headroom. This can be done by dedicating certain frequencies to a device more capable of the ensuring the task is done with utmost accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0


Subwoofers by their very nature are stongest in the 30-50Hz range already, especially the SVS offerings. So, I guess I just don't understand the logic. If you have enough sub for the room then why would you need another for midbass? If you don't have enough sub you would be better served to get a better sub.

Assuming you already have enough power and woofage for the 30-50hz region of the spectrum you could dedicate your subwoofer to only this range and below. This is done through your crossover selection. By doing this you will take away some duties that tax the subwoofer, forcing the woofer to oscillation more quickly due to higher frequencies of the crossover chosen. The MBM works with this idea by filtering all frequencies below 50hz and sending them to a sub capable of reproducing them while each speaker may maintain peak performance in their own dedicated ranges.

Ex. Use one set of woofers to move slowly (think Infinite Baffle) and have another set of woofers to move quickly (MBM) throughout the 1hz -100hz range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0


Adding another active speaker into the mix can create a whole mix of other problems as well...

I suppose if you have an ideal room you don't need to worry about this. Since most people don't....I'm curious to know how to solve this delimma.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0



Adding another active speaker into the mix can create a whole mix of other problems as well. Besides if you want to color the sound by making the 20-50Hz range artificially high, then you can still use and EQ for that. In fact, you could use the PEQ built into to the Ultra.


I don't think its a matter of making any part of the range artificially high. It has to do with making the full range more accurate and detailed.


I've had the MBM-12 for about 6 weeks now. After getting it well intergrated, I'm very pleased with it.


One intergration issue that I did come across, is that it was recommended to be placed nearfield, preferably behind the sofa. The response curve is very flat in a nearfield position. I picked up the Behringer processor to time delay the signal so that it would be in phase with everything else. I'd turn everything off except for the Behringer and the MBM-12. Played several audio tracks listening to just the MBM. Then listened to it with the Behringer out of the circuit. Turns out that the Behringer was adding some distortion. Also found that the MBM is more tuneful when laying on the port with the driver in a front firing position. Also found a couple of wires inside the MBM that were vibrating. Moved those a couple of inches and now the MBM sounds great. To get around the timing issue, I wound up placing the MBM on top of my Velodyne HGS-15. I like this better for another reason. I could always tell that I was getting some sound from the MBM from behind me that seems that should have been up front. Although I would think that each person's installation is likely to be different, you might want to set it up the way I did and use that as your point of departure. I think you'll find that it works out pretty well.


Happy listening.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0


Personally, I don't subscribe to this whole theory of the MBM. If you measure your in room response at the listening postion and it is +/- 3 db, then you should have little or no need for anything else in the system. If your response is not within limits then try an affordable EQ solution to flatten things out.

Joe, you are forgetting the advantages of much higher mid/upper bass headroom (as a point of example, MBM-12 has about +10db higher headroom vs VTF-3 HO and some other similar subwoofers, due in part to use of an ultra light cone woofer that is much more efficient for reproducing mid-bass), lower distortion (by positioning the module in the nearfield, distortion is lower for a given input level due to close proximity to the listener; also, intermodulation distortion is reduced since the mid/upper bass can no longer be modulated by the lower bass), reduced room reflections (due to higher direct-to-reflected sound ratio from nearfield positioning; note that most people who position their true subwoofer in the front corner for optimal deep bass capability tend to have some significant response irregularities often in the form of nulls in the 50-100Hz region), and wider dynamic range (letting the true subwoofer handle primarily 50Hz and below will mean that the entire low/mid/upper bass region is actually improved).


Sincerely,
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower /forum/post/0


Hey


Im thinking about buying a MBM-12 from HSU.. but im not sure if it's needed. So would be nice with some opinions on that matter..



This is my room:



I use a H/K 5550 Receiver (7x75W) with these speakers:


Klipsch RF-5 (front)

Klipsch RC-7 (center)

Klipsch RF-25 (surround)

Tannoy Mercury something (surround)


And a SVS PB12 Ultra.


As you can see from the picture, I can have 2 locations. But only one location for my Ultra, really (that is where it sounds best). The way my current setup is, I sit like 20-50cm away from the subwoofer. I got plenty of bass, I also got some chest-hitting-bass - --> but not as much I would like to have.


My 'father-in-law' rents out PA stuff for bands etc. So I've helped him set it up several times - and when the bands are practicing, they (or, we) often play with the volume etc, - when the drummer then starts playing fast... THUB THUB THUB THUB , you feel every hit in your chest. HARD...
This is what I miss, and this is what I would like. The Klipsch speakers do this, to some degree, but not as much as I would want.


Will the HSU MBM give more of that "THUB" in my chest? Will it be able to do so at HIGH volumes ? And then we have the placement/room issues.. I would have to put the MBM next to the PB12U, - would I experience lots of phase issues by doing so ?

Myggpower,


It would be fine to place the MBM-12 close to the deep bass subwoofer. Try to place the module close to your primary listening position, and see how that goes.


Another suggestion would be to actually move your couch/recliner/chair so that it is placed along the line that says 4.5m on your drawing. Sitting here would mean that you are looking straight at the TV in the direct North side of the picture. Keep the deep bass subwoofer where it is, and place the MBM-12 sideways behind the couch, crossed over no higher than about 80-90Hz.


Take care!
 

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Peter, can you help me with this? I contacted HSU with the dimensions of my space (about 6000^3 ft) and they recommended that I get dual 3.3's for my space. I told the person that I was planning on getting an HO and MBM combination and they still thought that dual 3.3's would be best. What do you think?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks /forum/post/0


Joe, you are forgetting the advantages of much higher mid/upper bass headroom (as a point of example, MBM-12 has about +10db higher headroom vs VTF-3 HO and some other similar subwoofers, due in part to use of an ultra light cone woofer that is much more efficient for reproducing mid-bass), lower distortion (by positioning the module in the nearfield, distortion is lower for a given input level due to close proximity to the listener; also, intermodulation distortion is reduced since the mid/upper bass can no longer be modulated by the lower bass), reduced room reflections (due to higher direct-to-reflected sound ratio from nearfield positioning; note that most people who position their true subwoofer in the front corner for optimal deep bass capability tend to have some significant response irregularities often in the form of nulls in the 50-100Hz region), and wider dynamic range (letting the true subwoofer handle primarily 50Hz and below will mean that the entire low/mid/upper bass region is actually improved).

You may indeed be correct and I may be very wrong. I am just not convinced and maybe it is just becasue I have not tried it. Like I said, I think if you have a good quality subwoofer there should be no lack of midbass.


I guess the point of room issues is a valid one though. If you have issues with a bad null then the MBM or better placement may be a viable option.


My opinion is just based on my personal experiences and others may have great success with this product. Sorry to be a distraction here. Just giving my $.02 worth.


Try it out and let us know how you make out. You will never know until you try...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0


You may indeed be correct and I may be very wrong. I am just not convinced and maybe it is just becasue I have not tried it. Like I said, I think if you have a good quality subwoofer there should be no lack of midbass.


I guess the point of room issues is a valid one though. If you have issues with a bad null then the MBM or better placement may be a viable option.


My opinion is just based on my personal experiences and others may have great success with this product. Sorry to be a distraction here. Just giving my $.02 worth.


Try it out and let us know how you make out. You will never know until you try...

Please tell us what you have in the way of a subwoofer.
 

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Along the same lines, I am in a bind as well. I can not decide between the HO with turbo/ 3.3 with mbm-12 combo, or a 3.2/2.3 with mbm12. I really want that slam in the middle. My speakers go down to 80 very well. I am jsut missing the hit in the middle. I also thought about dual pb-10's with an mbm-12. Anyone who can help would be appreciated.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP /forum/post/0


Please tell us what you have in the way of a subwoofer.

I was using two SVS PB-10s. ( Immediately before that I was using SVS PB Ultra /2)


Now I am using a DIY TC Sounds 18" LMS-5400 in a 3.5 cube box with about 2000 watts. No real big difference at the typical listening levels, just a touch more articulation with the sealed enclosure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The SVS was sold, before I got the MBM-12. So I never got to test it properly, having the mains as small (crossed at 80 or 100hz), using the MBM from 50-80 (or 100hz), and the Ultra from 50hz and down.


The way my setup is now, I run my mains as large+ LFE (MBM).


The MBM does indeed give me the punch I was looking for, but, on some songs, it just becomes to much.. it becomes kind of "boomy" (even when I have my mains as small, cut at 80/100hz). But please take this with a big grain of salt, since I don't have it set up properly, - I will wait until I get a new subwoofer before I do so. Then I will calibrate both subs, having the mains cut at 80 (or wherever I feel it sounds best), and the SUBwoofer cut at 50hz. Hopefully everything will be smooth then
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0


I was using two SVS PB-10s. ( Immediately before that I was using SVS PB Ultra /2)


Now I am using a DIY TC Sounds 18" LMS-5400 in a 3.5 cube box with about 2000 watts. No real big difference at the typical listening levels, just a touch more articulation with the sealed enclosure.

Whaaat?! Where is your construction thread?
 

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Sorry Richard, I have not started one yet. I have most of the pics ready. But, my wife has the camers with all the pics at her work. So, I am SOL for the time being. I will start the thread when I have time to do some more testing. I need to physically move some things around and get it equalized to my liking. I will get some screen shots as well. Hopefully, by the end of the week/early next week I will post it all. I am still experimenting with amplification as well.....
 

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Will the 3.3 pack enough punch for a room with 19 X 27 X 7 dedicated HT? The Dr. recommended the 3.3 over the HO and turbo models. I really want that slam in the middle. WIll the mbm-12 be necessary with the 3.3 ? Would it be better to add the mbm to the 2.3 or 3.2?
 

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Good evening Kevin,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 /forum/post/0


Peter, can you help me with this? I contacted HSU with the dimensions of my space (about 6000^3 ft) and they recommended that I get dual 3.3's for my space. I told the person that I was planning on getting an HO and MBM combination and they still thought that dual 3.3's would be best. What do you think?

Did you receive that response from techsupport email? If so, then you should have no worries, because that is Dr. Hsu's recommendation



In your very large room, it might make sense to look at dual VTF-3 Mk3 at the price point below $1500. That is a lot of volume for a single subwoofer to fill. In this instance, I agree with the recommendation. If one had a smaller room, then the VTF-3 HO + MBM-12 would work great. Note that you can always add an MBM-12 down the road to a dual VTF-3 Mk3 setup. In fact, I would highly recommend it. We used dual -3 Mk3 farfield + single MBM-12 nearfield at T.H.E SHOW. in Vegas earlier in the year.


Cheers
 

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Everything you are asking is subjective for each listener. So, you have to try it to find out. Chances are you will not need the MBM. But, each person's priorities and tastes are different.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarzoo /forum/post/0


Will the 3.3 pack enough punch for a room with 19 X 27 X 7 dedicated HT? The Dr. recommended the 3.3 over the HO and turbo models. I really want that slam in the middle. WIll the mbm-12 be necessary with the 3.3 ? Would it be better to add the mbm to the 2.3 or 3.2?

Absolutely ccarzoo, you should have plenty of subwoofer for that room with those choices. You can always add an MBM down the road, which will give you an even higher performance system.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks /forum/post/0


Absolutely ccarzoo, you should have plenty of subwoofer for that room with those choices. You can always add an MBM down the road, which will give you an even higher performance system.

money is not an issue. He picked the 3.3 for my room. I would really like to get the mbm at a discount while it's all being shipped. Which option would be more feasable? Opting for a lighter sub than the 3.3 and adding the mbm, or getting the 3.3 plus the mbm and not worrying about anything again?
 
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