[Balforth]

I am building a home and have a decent sized great room/breakfast room/study/kitchen that is all open and connected and has vaulted ceilings. The great room will be used primarily for watching TV.


I've heard wonderful things about the HSU VTF3 MK3 and have decided I want to go with HSU. Originally, I wanted to spend about $450 on my sub. I was disappointed to see the cost of the VTF3 at $700, but I might be able to stretch it and get the VTF2 for $500. Are there other, less expensive places on the web to purchase these than directly from HSU?


Is there a large performance difference between these two subs? Will the VTF2 still fill a large room with decent sounding bass? Also, I ran two sub cables to two different corners of the room, so I have the option of running another sub in the future.

 

[amdeutsch]

No, the are ID. But if you watch their site at the end of the month you might be able to pick up a b-stock unit for 20% discount. Or you can call and see about b-stock availability prior to them posting it.

 

[gvg45]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Balforth /forum/post/0


I am building a home and have a decent sized great room/breakfast room/study/kitchen that is all open and connected and has vaulted ceilings. The great room will be used primarily for watching TV.


Is there a large performance difference between these two subs? Will the VTF2 still fill a large room with decent sounding bass? Also, I ran two sub cables to two different corners of the room, so I have the option of running another sub in the future.

What is the size of the room? Also is the the room sealed or open to other rooms and if so what are the size of those rooms?

 

[davidimdpt]

Let me save you some time. I just did a lot research and asked a lot of questions here and talked to a lot of members. If around $500 is your budget and you are debating between the VTF-2.3 and 3.3, I would do what I did and get something in between at the same price of the VTF-2.3. I got the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. They are on sale now till the end of the month for the same price as the VTF-2.3. This subwoofer was designed by Dr. Hsu himself and has the same amp power as the 3.3. It also has the same flexibility as the Hsu subwoofers with a variable eq. I just got mine delivered yesterday and it is amazing. No regrets!

 

[Balforth]

I knew somebody would ask that

The builders site is down, so I took about 3 minutes to draw a HIGHLY detailed and very accurate blueprint of the floorplan in paint.


I'm not sure what the actual dimensions of the rooms are (is that bad?). The great room is probably 14x20, breakfast room is probably around 14x14, study is around 14x12, kitchen is probably 12x12. The angled kitchen wall that faces the great room and the horizontal kitchen wall that faces the breakfast room are both counter-height. The rest of the kitchen walls are 8'. The hallway between the master bath and kitchen is big... probably 6' at least. The rest of the hallways are 5'.


The ceilings are vaulted, so it has as far as air space is concerned, there is a lot of open volume. The two rooms I forgot to label are the mud room and the laundry room and are not vaulted; neither are any of the bedrooms or bathrooms.


Hope this helps.

 

[gvg45]



Quote:
Originally Posted by davidimdpt /forum/post/0


with a variable eq.

I thought this was already covered and was noted that the Outlaw did not have this feature. I could be mistaken but I am fairly certain I'm not.

 

[CupCak3]

Well how far will the sub be from the sitting area? You have alot of open space so can pretty much forget about good room gain.


If I could give any advice it would be if you happen to buy a little more than you need now, you'll be happy but if your expectations aren't met, expect to spend more in the long run until you kick the upgrade bug.


Outlaw has a new sub coming out that will be an upgrade to the Plus but I've had less than good luck getting a response from Outlaw's support.

 

[gvg45]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Balforth /forum/post/0


I'm not sure what the actual dimensions of the rooms are (is that bad?). The great room is probably 14x20, breakfast room is probably around 14x14, study is around 14x12, kitchen is probably 12x12. The angled kitchen wall that faces the great room and the horizontal kitchen wall that faces the breakfast room are both counter-height. The rest of the kitchen walls are 8'. The hallway between the master bath and kitchen is big... probably 6' at least. The rest of the hallways are 5'.

Great room, breakfast room, study, and kitchen are all open to one another? I see some dotted lines in your diagram?

 

[Balforth]

The couch will be on the back wall of the great room where the big bay is, and the TV will be on the great room/master bath wall. If you were sitting on the couch, I ran sub lines to the front left and rear left corners. I could move the rear left sub anywhere from that corner on down the length of the couch.


The great room, breakfast room, study, and kitchen are all open to one another. The other diagonal lines that run through the picture are to show the vaulted ceilings. Sorry for the confusion.


I've updated the diagram with some stunning color.

 

[cneely8]



Quote:
Originally Posted by davidimdpt /forum/post/0


It also has the same flexibility as the Hsu subwoofers with a variable eq.

I didn't think the hsu has variable EQ. It has variable tuning. I don't know about the outlaw, but at $500, I would assume the poster meant variable tuning for that one too.


Tuning and EQ are different animals. Or did I miss that EQ feature on the hsu?

 

[davidimdpt]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gvg45 /forum/post/0


I thought this was already covered and was noted that the Outlaw did not have this feature. I could be mistaken but I am fairly certain I'm not.

Let me clarify. I think it's a difference in terminology. Hsu uses variable tuning and Outlaw uses special eq and variable tuning. I don't know enough to know which is more correct but in either case you can set the subwoofer to 25 hz or 20 hz for either maximum output or extension.

 

[swifty14]

I'm having the same problem. I guess the bottom line is which sub is better the VTF-2.3 or the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. I would love to get some kind of consensus.

 

[davidimdpt]

I will repost what I concluded after doing my research
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=840108&page=3


Thanks for the advice guys. I just pulled the trigger on the Outlaw LFM-1plus last night. Based on what i learned here and from craig the outlaw seemed to be the clear choice.


1. LFM-1plus has 100 more amp power

2. Same price and footprint of the 2.3

3. 2.3 is not upgradable to turbo later anyway (at this time)

4. Both are not beauties but the Outlaw seems a little more WAF friendly

5. Port holes are on the bottom which makes it harder for little hands to stick things into

If I had heard this would have hindered audio quality I may have reconsidered

6 THe Outlaw has a little more customization available due to the single band parametric EQ

7. Hard to resist a great sale


Thanks for the great advice. Now I just have to wait for this baby!


In the end I came to the conclusion that the 3.3 was the best out of the group but it was larger than I wanted to go and it was significantly more than the 2.3 and outlaw. If I had to choose bw the outlaw before the sale and 3.3 I would have gotten the 3.3 eventhough it is a little larger. The main point though is that it is on sale and for the same price, it offers more than the 2.3 but not as much as the 3.3.

 

[Macfan424]



Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty14 /forum/post/0


I'm having the same problem. I guess the bottom line is which sub is better the VTF-2.3 or the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. I would love to get some kind of consensus.

There is only a small difference. The Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is the fraternal twin of the now discontinued Hsu VTF-3.2. Hsu says the new VTF-2.3 has the same performance as the old 3.2, other than the amp, which is rated 100 watts less, not as much difference as it sounds (~1dB maximum output).


Still, you get a little more with the LFM-1 Plus, which, for the same price, makes it a slightly better value. Moreover, many think the Outlaw has a cosmetic edge, too, including its down-firing ports. And it's on sale. (I'm a sucker for a sale.

)


davidimdpt mentions a parametric EQ, but no one else seems to be aware of it. It is not mentioned in the manual nor are there any controls for it visible in pictures of the amp. I don't think it should be a factor, but if it is, the Outlaw is not ever likely to be upgradeable with a turbo due to its down-firing ports. The VTF-2.3 has been upgraded by some, although it apparently takes a little effort.


Bottom line, they are both excellent values. Many will choose based on brand name preference. Either way, you won't make a mistake. You'll be very happy with either.

 

[gvg45]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Balforth /forum/post/0


The couch will be on the back wall of the great room where the big bay is, and the TV will be on the great room/master bath wall. If you were sitting on the couch, I ran sub lines to the front left and rear left corners. I could move the rear left sub anywhere from that corner on down the length of the couch.


The great room, breakfast room, study, and kitchen are all open to one another. The other diagonal lines that run through the picture are to show the vaulted ceilings. Sorry for the confusion.


I've updated the diagram with some stunning color.

IMO, that is one large open floor plan for a VTF2.3 to fill. Running the sub nearfield (sub 2 location) may help. What I suggest you do is wait and try and save up for the VTF3.3. I feel there is large performance difference between the two and the 3.3 would definitely do better in your room, given the size. And at some point further down the road, if you decide you want more, you can add another VTF3.3 and have some headroom.

 

[spyboy]

Hi


I think the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is enough for your room. Down the line you can add something else called the HSU MBM.


All the Best

 

[Balforth]

Maybe I don't need a subwoofer. I went out to look at the house this morning and the drywallers MANGLED both of my Monster subwoofer cables when they tried to cut around the electrical box!!!


So, I definitely cannot afford the hsu 3.3 right now. The Outlaw seems to be the best bang for the buck, which is critical to me right now (building a new house is freaking expensive!!!). If it's not enough, I suppose down the road I can add another Outlaw, or maybe even the 3.3... If they're all so similar, these should be able to be paired up without too much hassle, no?

 

[spyboy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Balforth /forum/post/0


Maybe I don't need a subwoofer. I went out to look at the house this morning and the drywallers MANGLED both of my Monster subwoofer cables when they tried to cut around the electrical box!!!


So, I definitely cannot afford the hsu 3.3 right now. The Outlaw seems to be the best bang for the buck, which is critical to me right now (building a new house is freaking expensive!!!). If it's not enough, I suppose down the road I can add another Outlaw, or maybe even the 3.3... If they're all so similar, these should be able to be paired up without too much hassle, no?

Hi


I used my Cerwin-Vega HT-12 PWR with an SVS 20-39PCi in the same room with great satisfaction. I think that getting the Outlaw is a great idea and you can add something else later on.


All the Best

 

[CupCak3]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Balforth /forum/post/0


Maybe I don't need a subwoofer. I went out to look at the house this morning and the drywallers MANGLED both of my Monster subwoofer cables when they tried to cut around the electrical box!!!


So, I definitely cannot afford the hsu 3.3 right now. The Outlaw seems to be the best bang for the buck, which is critical to me right now (building a new house is freaking expensive!!!). If it's not enough, I suppose down the road I can add another Outlaw, or maybe even the 3.3... If they're all so similar, these should be able to be paired up without too much hassle, no?

well make the dry wallers pay for new cables to be ran...

 

[Balforth]

LOL The builders said there is some kind of honesty policy between contractors... if one contractor screws something up, the other contractor has to come out and fix it at their own cost. I guess this is because contractors would purposefully screw up their own work, claim somebody else did it, then charge to come back out and fix it.


Since I ran the wiring myself, I'm screwed. So I spent the weekend ripping out drywall and rerunning much cheaper subwoofer cables because my I can't afford to buy a second set of monster cables!


By the way, I went with the Outlaw for $499. If it's not enough, I'll add second down the road. Thanks for all the responses and help.