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HTPC BD Storage Discussion
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I got my need for extras (PIP, Internet features etc etc) out of my system with HD-DVD. For my BD collection, all I care about is being able to play the movies with as little fuss possible, as quickly as possible, with no quality loss while still being able to fit as many movies on an HD as possible. To accomplish this I use eac3to to extract the video and lossless audio, which I re-encode to flac, and wrap them up in a mkv wrapper. No loss in quality, while saving a LOT of gigs by getting rid of all the extra crap as well as what you save by converting the audio to the quite tidy flac. eac3to also strips any dialog norm that might be on the lossless track, so you could argue that the resultant audio is even better than the original.
I do basically the same procedure, but rather than convert the audio to flac, I prefer ac3 DD5.1 for several reasons so I either choose the dd5.1 track or extract/convert audio to dd51 ac3.
I was already doing something similar with my DVD's -> extracting just main movie to watch using DVDLobby, so no need for extras, PIP, etc....
As for time vs processing a DVD? It takes longer, and there isn't a single tool for it yet. eac3to works great to extract the different streams, and mkvmerge is great for remuxing the audio into the mkv container.
I was already doing something similar with my DVD's -> extracting just main movie to watch using DVDLobby, so no need for extras, PIP, etc....
As for time vs processing a DVD? It takes longer, and there isn't a single tool for it yet. eac3to works great to extract the different streams, and mkvmerge is great for remuxing the audio into the mkv container.
With DVDs I just extract the main title with the English (or any other original) soundtrack. If there are any extras worth repeat viewing, I just append them as separate titles after the movie.
HD media, however, have interactive menus, so I like to keep them, but I strip the fluff as much as possible.
To make modifications easier (and to eliminate mounting/dismounting), I rip all three formats to folders, not to ISO's. I play the high definition ones with TMT via a custom VMC library/launcher.
HD-DVDs usually don't have much fluff to begin with, and stripping a foreign DD soundtrack or two doesn't buy you much storage space anyway, so I rip everything, and just slightly edit the XPL and ACA files to get: load --> main menu --> play --> movie (no previews/warnings/anything). I've gone an extra mile on Planet Earth to combine it into a single disc image and I modified the menus accordingly (if you've read my posts on the Blu-ray section, then you understand why I have such a strong dislike for BD-J).
Blu-ray is a bit trickier, and usually has lots of fluff, so this is basically the workprocess:
- Rip the entire disc
- Identify the main menu, the main movie, and any extras to keep (at this point I usually remove only the obvious junk)
- Edit the playlists (mpls) to either skip the junk (preferable), or play it for only a single frame (if unavoidable)
- Delete junk
- I don't remux (for the time being). On one disc I've removed the extra dozen of foreign tracks, but the process was so long and cumbersome (tsmuxer, then tsremux) that I never bothered again.
The first few discs took a while to figure out and process like this, but once automated (keeping track of all the mpls, clpi, and m2ts files), it takes about 10 minutes of previewing to identify the tracks and then making the modifications.
What you get is a BD with fully functional menus, extras, and everything, yet again: load --> menu --> play --> movie. If there are any extras worth repeat viewing, you can keep them, otherwise you just remove them, and use the physical disc if you ever change your mind. The menu link just returns you the the menu.
For storage I just use a JBOD array, nothing fancy, the HTPC doubles as a server.
HD media, however, have interactive menus, so I like to keep them, but I strip the fluff as much as possible.
To make modifications easier (and to eliminate mounting/dismounting), I rip all three formats to folders, not to ISO's. I play the high definition ones with TMT via a custom VMC library/launcher.
HD-DVDs usually don't have much fluff to begin with, and stripping a foreign DD soundtrack or two doesn't buy you much storage space anyway, so I rip everything, and just slightly edit the XPL and ACA files to get: load --> main menu --> play --> movie (no previews/warnings/anything). I've gone an extra mile on Planet Earth to combine it into a single disc image and I modified the menus accordingly (if you've read my posts on the Blu-ray section, then you understand why I have such a strong dislike for BD-J).
Blu-ray is a bit trickier, and usually has lots of fluff, so this is basically the workprocess:
- Rip the entire disc
- Identify the main menu, the main movie, and any extras to keep (at this point I usually remove only the obvious junk)
- Edit the playlists (mpls) to either skip the junk (preferable), or play it for only a single frame (if unavoidable)
- Delete junk
- I don't remux (for the time being). On one disc I've removed the extra dozen of foreign tracks, but the process was so long and cumbersome (tsmuxer, then tsremux) that I never bothered again.
The first few discs took a while to figure out and process like this, but once automated (keeping track of all the mpls, clpi, and m2ts files), it takes about 10 minutes of previewing to identify the tracks and then making the modifications.
What you get is a BD with fully functional menus, extras, and everything, yet again: load --> menu --> play --> movie. If there are any extras worth repeat viewing, you can keep them, otherwise you just remove them, and use the physical disc if you ever change your mind. The menu link just returns you the the menu.
For storage I just use a JBOD array, nothing fancy, the HTPC doubles as a server.
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101 Posts
RipBot + AnyDVD-HD will give you a painless conversion to mkv, but it takes some time. Converting 'The Dark Knight' took 19 hours on a Q6600 straight from the disc. I have found this to be the easiest method. Less than 20 mouse clicks and you only need those two programs and the results look nearly indistinguishable from the BD on an Epson 1080UB with a 100" screen.
Under two hours. Probably faster with a faster CPU, or quadcore; I just have an e7700. Depending on the size of the BD being remuxed, it takes anywhere from 25-40 minutes for eac3to to demux the audio and video to flac and mkv files, respectively. And then another 25-40 minutes for mkvmergegui to combine those files into one mkv. It's a very simple process once you get everything setup. There's a guide on the abhdtv.net forums that perfectly explains everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeutler1203 /forum/post/15481066
Sounds like a great way to acheive the highest quality while minimizing the storage needs per BD. How much longer does your process take per BD vs. say ripping an iso via AnyDVD HD?
Under two hours. Probably faster with a faster CPU, or quadcore; I just have an e7700. Depending on the size of the BD being remuxed, it takes anywhere from 25-40 minutes for eac3to to demux the audio and video to flac and mkv files, respectively. And then another 25-40 minutes for mkvmergegui to combine those files into one mkv. It's a very simple process once you get everything setup. There's a guide on the abhdtv.net forums that perfectly explains everything.
so when you do step 1 to rip the entire movie, you must be maintaining them as folders correct? Is there a way to just delete these unwanted "junk" files while still maintaining a correct BD file structure for an ISO?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ79 /forum/post/15482116
With DVDs I just extract the main title with the English (or any other original) soundtrack. If there are any extras worth repeat viewing, I just append them as separate titles after the movie.
HD media, however, have interactive menus, so I like to keep them, but I strip the fluff as much as possible.
To make modifications easier (and to eliminate mounting/dismounting), I rip all three formats to folders, not to ISO's. I play the high definition ones with TMT via a custom VMC library/launcher.
HD-DVDs usually don't have much fluff to begin with, and stripping a foreign DD soundtrack or two doesn't buy you much storage space anyway, so I rip everything, and just slightly edit the XPL and ACA files to get: load --> main menu --> play --> movie (no previews/warnings/anything). I've gone an extra mile on Planet Earth to combine it into a single disc image and I modified the menus accordingly (if you've read my posts on the Blu-ray section, then you understand why I have such a strong dislike for BD-J).
Blu-ray is a bit trickier, and usually has lots of fluff, so this is basically the workprocess:
- Rip the entire disc
- Identify the main menu, the main movie, and any extras to keep (at this point I usually remove only the obvious junk)
- Edit the playlists (mpls) to either skip the junk (preferable), or play it for only a single frame (if unavoidable)
- Delete junk
- I don't remux (for the time being). On one disc I've removed the extra dozen of foreign tracks, but the process was so long and cumbersome (tsmuxer, then tsremux) that I never bothered again.
The first few discs took a while to figure out and process like this, but once automated (keeping track of all the mpls, clpi, and m2ts files), it takes about 10 minutes of previewing to identify the tracks and then making the modifications.
What you get is a BD with fully functional menus, extras, and everything, yet again: load --> menu --> play --> movie. If there are any extras worth repeat viewing, you can keep them, otherwise you just remove them, and use the physical disc if you ever change your mind. The menu link just returns you the the menu.
For storage I just use a JBOD array, nothing fancy, the HTPC doubles as a server.
so when you do step 1 to rip the entire movie, you must be maintaining them as folders correct? Is there a way to just delete these unwanted "junk" files while still maintaining a correct BD file structure for an ISO?
Joined
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377 Posts
my toolchain/flow (AnyDVD required):
- Rip entire disk with AnyDVD...
or
- Open live disk... (thanks AnyDVD)
- Find main movie playlist using BDInfo
- Create new BD structure with only main movie using TSMuxer (strip out languages, extras)
- Create BD iso using imgburner from above structure/folder
time: 30 - 60 mins
Playback:
- mount ISO using VirtualCloneDrive
- play 'disk' with PDVD
- Rip entire disk with AnyDVD...
or
- Open live disk... (thanks AnyDVD)
- Find main movie playlist using BDInfo
- Create new BD structure with only main movie using TSMuxer (strip out languages, extras)
- Create BD iso using imgburner from above structure/folder
time: 30 - 60 mins
Playback:
- mount ISO using VirtualCloneDrive
- play 'disk' with PDVD
Does this create a valid BD ISO that preserves the main movie as well as the HD audio formats?
Quote:
Originally Posted by protovision /forum/post/15485674
my toolchain/flow (AnyDVD required):
- Rip entire disk with AnyDVD...
or
- Open live disk... (thanks AnyDVD)
- Find main movie playlist using BDInfo
- Create new BD structure with only main movie using TSMuxer (strip out languages, extras)
- Create BD iso using imgburner from above structure/folder
time: 30 - 60 mins
Playback:
- mount ISO using VirtualCloneDrive
- play 'disk' with PDVD
Does this create a valid BD ISO that preserves the main movie as well as the HD audio formats?
Joined
·
377 Posts
As far as I can tell, yes.
I don't have a stand alone BD player to test on, just PDVD. TSMuxer will delete or leave whatever tracks you want. It even has an option to downconvert HD audio to AC3/DTS, but I've never tried it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubbs23 /forum/post/15485739
Does this create a valid BD ISO that preserves the main movie as well as the HD audio formats?
As far as I can tell, yes.
I don't have a stand alone BD player to test on, just PDVD. TSMuxer will delete or leave whatever tracks you want. It even has an option to downconvert HD audio to AC3/DTS, but I've never tried it.
Do you have the link to the main stie for TSmuxer?
Joined
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691 Posts
I don't have much time to convert BD. I use PS3 to rip the BD to iso file to my server and I use MyMovies as front end in MCE for browing the BD library. And with a click of the icon, PDVD will start (although some times it takes 20 seconds) playing BD movies. At the background, ANYDVDHD and Maemon tools are working.
Yes, I always rip to folders. However, before I switched from PDVD to TMT, I had to make ISO's, so I'd do the modifications on the hard drive, and once done, then I'd use Imgburn to make an ISO. The folder structure (and ISO's) are at all times fully BD compliant, just with the junk removed. I don't think it would be practical to rip to ISO directly, as you not only have to drop some files, but also modify others.
By the way, I use BDEdit to analyze the structure, and make some modifications with it, and others (BDEdit is not 100% editable, regardless of its name) with a hex editor (I use HxD).
If you use TsMuxer, be aware that it produces non-compliant clpi files. The effect can range from stuttering (different patterns observed on PDVD and TMT) jumping, to none at all, depending on your player. There is a tool that fixes it (Tsremux would fix it too), and as far as I'm aware, it also has issues with TrueHD tracks. I stopped using it long ago.
I've never used MKV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubbs23 /forum/post/15485449
so when you do step 1 to rip the entire movie, you must be maintaining them as folders correct? Is there a way to just delete these unwanted "junk" files while still maintaining a correct BD file structure for an ISO?
Yes, I always rip to folders. However, before I switched from PDVD to TMT, I had to make ISO's, so I'd do the modifications on the hard drive, and once done, then I'd use Imgburn to make an ISO. The folder structure (and ISO's) are at all times fully BD compliant, just with the junk removed. I don't think it would be practical to rip to ISO directly, as you not only have to drop some files, but also modify others.
By the way, I use BDEdit to analyze the structure, and make some modifications with it, and others (BDEdit is not 100% editable, regardless of its name) with a hex editor (I use HxD).
If you use TsMuxer, be aware that it produces non-compliant clpi files. The effect can range from stuttering (different patterns observed on PDVD and TMT) jumping, to none at all, depending on your player. There is a tool that fixes it (Tsremux would fix it too), and as far as I'm aware, it also has issues with TrueHD tracks. I stopped using it long ago.
I've never used MKV.
This is interesting. Apparently I read through your first post too quickly. I notice now you mentinoed you rip to folders, and then make the modifications, and delete the stuff you don't want. From there you just leave the folder structure as is on the harddrive with the changes and its OK? I thought I read that you DO use TSRemux.
I'm also very interested in the custom VMC/TMT mounter/launcher you mentioned. Can you provide some more information on that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ79 /forum/post/15488360
Yes, I always rip to folders. However, before I switched from PDVD to TMT, I had to make ISO's, so I'd do the modifications on the hard drive, and once done, then I'd use Imgburn to make an ISO. The folder structure (and ISO's) are at all times fully BD compliant, just with the junk removed. I don't think it would be practical to rip to ISO directly, as you not only have to drop some files, but also modify others.
By the way, I use BDEdit to analyze the structure, and make some modifications with it, and others (BDEdit is not 100% editable, regardless of its name) with a hex editor (I use HxD).
If you use TsMuxer, be aware that it produces non-compliant clpi files. The effect can range from stuttering (different patterns observed on PDVD and TMT) jumping, to none at all, depending on your player. There is a tool that fixes it (Tsremux would fix it too), and as far as I'm aware, it also has issues with TrueHD tracks. I stopped using it long ago.
I've never used MKV.
This is interesting. Apparently I read through your first post too quickly. I notice now you mentinoed you rip to folders, and then make the modifications, and delete the stuff you don't want. From there you just leave the folder structure as is on the harddrive with the changes and its OK? I thought I read that you DO use TSRemux.
I'm also very interested in the custom VMC/TMT mounter/launcher you mentioned. Can you provide some more information on that?
Joined
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1,738 Posts
Am I reading correct that you can use BDEdit to make the movie ifteslf play right away, skipping all menus.....then delete everything but the main movie from the folders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ79 /forum/post/15488360
Yes, I always rip to folders. However, before I switched from PDVD to TMT, I had to make ISO's, so I'd do the modifications on the hard drive, and once done, then I'd use Imgburn to make an ISO. The folder structure (and ISO's) are at all times fully BD compliant, just with the junk removed. I don't think it would be practical to rip to ISO directly, as you not only have to drop some files, but also modify others.
By the way, I use BDEdit to analyze the structure, and make some modifications with it, and others (BDEdit is not 100% editable, regardless of its name) with a hex editor (I use HxD).
If you use TsMuxer, be aware that it produces non-compliant clpi files. The effect can range from stuttering (different patterns observed on PDVD and TMT) jumping, to none at all, depending on your player. There is a tool that fixes it (Tsremux would fix it too), and as far as I'm aware, it also has issues with TrueHD tracks. I stopped using it long ago.
I've never used MKV.
Am I reading correct that you can use BDEdit to make the movie ifteslf play right away, skipping all menus.....then delete everything but the main movie from the folders?
Ah, the library/launcher... It's a personal project that I manage to work on from time to time... Currently it works, but it's not very flexible (no sorting by genre, only alphabetically), and still has some quirks, the installer is not very sophisticated, so it's really not ready for sharing, but on the other hand it works well enough that it's not very high on the to do list... which is not a good thing... I have way too many half-finished programming projects.
I did use both TSRemux and TSMuxer for one disc, but not since.
In some cases only. The easiest thing to try is to set the first play title to be the same as the main menu title (I prefer to show the menu if that's what the original disc does), but it doesn't always work, and it gets more tricky, and you have to edit other files, or mess with the assembly-like instructions, which I haven't done. In other cases AnyDVD can do it for you. And if it's BD-J, all bets are off (did I mention how I dislike it?). I keep the menu and scene navigation parts, but I usually remove the trailers, "how they filmed it," and similar stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubbs23 /forum/post/15488526
This is interesting. Apparently I read through your first post too quickly. I notice now you mentinoed you rip to folders, and then make the modifications, and delete the stuff you don't want. From there you just leave the folder structure as is on the harddrive with the changes and its OK? I thought I read that you DO use TSRemux.
I'm also very interested in the custom VMC/TMT mounter/launcher you mentioned. Can you provide some more information on that?
Ah, the library/launcher... It's a personal project that I manage to work on from time to time... Currently it works, but it's not very flexible (no sorting by genre, only alphabetically), and still has some quirks, the installer is not very sophisticated, so it's really not ready for sharing, but on the other hand it works well enough that it's not very high on the to do list... which is not a good thing... I have way too many half-finished programming projects.
I did use both TSRemux and TSMuxer for one disc, but not since.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder /forum/post/15488634
Am I reading correct that you can use BDEdit to make the movie ifteslf play right away, skipping all menus.....then delete everything but the main movie from the folders?
In some cases only. The easiest thing to try is to set the first play title to be the same as the main menu title (I prefer to show the menu if that's what the original disc does), but it doesn't always work, and it gets more tricky, and you have to edit other files, or mess with the assembly-like instructions, which I haven't done. In other cases AnyDVD can do it for you. And if it's BD-J, all bets are off (did I mention how I dislike it?). I keep the menu and scene navigation parts, but I usually remove the trailers, "how they filmed it," and similar stuff.
I just do ISO's. Keeps everything. I may not need everything, but space is cheap. 1GB is like 10 cents.
The thing is, I don't need to store my entire BD collection. Watch a movie, take it out of the rotation. Its not likely that I'm going to watch the same movie twice in the same month, or even year! LOL. When its time to put it in the rotation, rip the ISO again. No big deal. I can only watch one movie at a time. I don't need 350 movies in RAID at all times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeutler1203 /forum/post/15491793
1 gigabyte might be 10 cents but on a 1TB drive you can probably only store say 20-40 BD's. Most typical motherboards only allow for 6 SATA ports. So a base HTPC for BD playback only would be about $650 for a 1 TB system. Add another $500 for an additional 5 TB and you are at $1150 for a 6TB system. Now you are at 20 cents per gigabyte and now forced to create a NAS device or storage server for additional space. Now you are at the point of needing to install Cat5/Cat6 for transmission back to your front end.
That's my main concern on storage space. What's the average size BD iso file?
The thing is, I don't need to store my entire BD collection. Watch a movie, take it out of the rotation. Its not likely that I'm going to watch the same movie twice in the same month, or even year! LOL. When its time to put it in the rotation, rip the ISO again. No big deal. I can only watch one movie at a time. I don't need 350 movies in RAID at all times.
They range. Some are 19GB, some are 48GB. I took 30 of mine and took the total, divided by 30 and I got an average of 31GB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeutler1203 /forum/post/15491793
That's my main concern on storage space. What's the average size BD iso file?
They range. Some are 19GB, some are 48GB. I took 30 of mine and took the total, divided by 30 and I got an average of 31GB.
Joined
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1,738 Posts
It all depends on what you have around for extra stuff I have about $500 into my 3.36 TB Unraid server
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeutler1203 /forum/post/15491793
1 gigabyte might be 10 cents but on a 1TB drive you can probably only store say 20-40 BD's. Most typical motherboards only allow for 6 SATA ports. So a base HTPC for BD playback only would be about $650 for a 1 TB system. Add another $500 for an additional 5 TB and you are at $1150 for a 6TB system. Now you are at 20 cents per gigabyte and now forced to create a NAS device or storage server for additional space. Now you are at the point of needing to install Cat5/Cat6 for transmission back to your front end.
That's my main concern on storage space. What's the average size BD iso file?
It all depends on what you have around for extra stuff I have about $500 into my 3.36 TB Unraid server
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