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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I recently purchased an HP m9200t for the intent of saving HD Camcorder AVCHD video to blu Ray and to play BluRay/HD-DVD movies.


The PC is connected to a 65" Hitachi RP-CRT (65S500 iirc) via the DVI input to the TV. The PC is configured:

3GB RAM

750GB HDD

E8400 Core2 Duo

SuperMulti Blu-Ray burner (hd-dvd + Blu-ray playback)

8500GT

SB Xtreme Gamer Audio

Vista Home Premium


When I originally booted the box, I connected the HDMI out and the Svideo out of the 8500GT. I never saw video on either input-- though I may have goofed by not having the TV on when I hit the power. In any case, I hooked up a DVI monitor (DELL 24" flat panel) and managed to get the box through its initial boot. A few reboots later I had it configured to use my Hitachi and Svideo and had the Dell out of the picture.


Somehow it seems to be hitting a moving target, but what I *think* I've observed is this:

1) If I configure the Nvidia to do 1 montor only and select the Hitachi connected via HDMI, then I can play HD-DVD.

2) If I configure it to do dual monitor (same image to both), then I can't seem to select 1080i (actually I can select it but it keeps autoreverting to 720p). This may just be due to the resolution selected for the Svideo

3) If I try to play HD-DVD with both HDMI and Svideo active, I get HDCP compliance error

4) If I configure 1 monitor-- I can account for the overscan and see the entire desktop at 1080i, but who can read 12pt fonts from 15' away? Actually, at 1080i, it's not that easy to read up close either. Still, the computer makes for a reasonably good HD player in this configuration.

5) If I adjust my DPI to a custom level (I think I used 196), then I can actually read the fonts from the back row and it is nice and usable. However, If I play a DVD in this mode, the video shows up only in the upper left quadrant of the screen. If I try to adjust the image in this mode, the sliders for the adjustment are off-screen and I can only see the upper left quadrant of that screen.

6) If I go to 'Large Fonts' on the Vista DPI setting, then I can see the Nvidia screen size adjustment, however, it doesn't seem to work fully as I can't get the screen to adjust to the full size.


I believe my next move is to start playing Russian Roulette with Nvidia driver versions (From what I've read it seems to be rather hit-miss as to the improvements/losses I may see with any version-- this has me hesitant to go off pell mell trial/error.) So before I go down that road, I thought I'd see if anyone has any words of wisdom to offer given the above info.


I also read one post where the person indicated that if they used the DVI output instead of the HDMI output of the 8500GT, then their TV worked more reliably. I am still having the problem that if I change away from the computer eventually I will not get any video. I think If I put it in standby and out again, then it relocates the hdmi link, but maybe I've been having to reboot-- I forget.


So I think another viable option may be to connect the TV to the DVI output of the 8500GT instead of to the HDMI output. But intuitively I would have thought that the two outputs are pretty much identical with possibly some audio lines connected to the HDMI output. I'm ultra cautious about hooking up DVI directly to this TV-- I tried that with an older computer and I think a 6200 NVidia chip. I suspect the older video card was not HDCP compliant because the same day I was experimenting with that card, my upscaling DVD players stopped working with the TV. I was able to get the TV repaired (still under warrantee thankfully-- it needed a new DVI card) and now I'm just terribly gunshy about what signal I try to feed it. Hopefully because this 8500GT is HDCP compliant I'll be OK, but since I'm not really certain what went wrong the last time, I've been sticking to the HDMI output only thus far.


So-- Do I futz with Nvidia Driver versions? Do I try the DVI output instead of HDMI output? Do I just live with tiny fonts?
 

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HDMI == DVI for most purposes.


No getting around small fonts at 1080p, that's just the way it is. All the DPI/font size stuff will look like a total hack.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstelter /forum/post/14190372


2) If I configure it to do dual monitor (same image to both), then I can't seem to select 1080i (actually I can select it but it keeps autoreverting to 720p). This may just be due to the resolution selected for the Svideo

I am a bit confused here. Why are you even bothering with the Svideo output?

Quote:
3) If I try to play HD-DVD with both HDMI and Svideo active, I get HDCP compliance error
www.slysoft.com download and test out AnyDVD HD. It removes the copy protection and HDCP requirements. I know its not a perfect or free solution but in the end it works great.

Quote:
4) If I configure 1 monitor-- I can account for the overscan and see the entire desktop at 1080i, but who can read 12pt fonts from 15' away? Actually, at 1080i, it's not that easy to read up close either. Still, the computer makes for a reasonably good HD player in this configuration.

That is where a "10 foot" interface comes into play. IE Media Center, Xlobby, Meedio, Media Portal, ect... is that you have a front end gui to do everything you want, so then you have no need for a mouse, or keyboard and don't have to read small text.


Also is your TV a CRT? so 1080i is the MAX you can run?


Quote:
5) If I adjust my DPI to a custom level (I think I used 196), then I can actually read the fonts from the back row and it is nice and usable. However, If I play a DVD in this mode, the video shows up only in the upper left quadrant of the screen. If I try to adjust the image in this mode, the sliders for the adjustment are off-screen and I can only see the upper left quadrant of that screen.

What program are you using for DVD playback?


Quote:
I also read one post where the person indicated that if they used the DVI output instead of the HDMI output of the 8500GT, then their TV worked more reliably. I am still having the problem that if I change away from the computer eventually I will not get any video. I think If I put it in standby and out again, then it relocates the hdmi link, but maybe I've been having to reboot-- I forget.

Many TV's/Displays have this issue, its called EDID, so if the pc input changes or the PC goes to sleep and then wakes up from sleep mode when the pc is off or on a different input the PC doesn't see the EDID data and doesn't know that a display is connected and what the display info is. I have solved that issue by using this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


with that EDID box I now can shut off my projector, put the pc to sleep, and not have to worry about the picture ever not coming back.


Quote:
So I think another viable option may be to connect the TV to the DVI output of the 8500GT instead of to the HDMI output. But intuitively I would have thought that the two outputs are pretty much identical with possibly some audio lines connected to the HDMI output.

Some TV's handle DVI and HDMI differently. Like My old Samsung LCD had DVI and HDMI. That TV handled PC inputs perfectly via DVI, but with HDMI i couldn't get overscan fixed.


So your tv may handle DVI inputs and HDMI inputs differently. So if video quality is a concern for you, I'd say just use what works and go from there.




Quote:
I'm ultra cautious about hooking up DVI directly to this TV-- I tried that with an older computer and I think a 6200 NVidia chip. I suspect the older video card was not HDCP compliant because the same day I was experimenting with that card, my upscaling DVD players stopped working with the TV. I was able to get the TV repaired (still under warrantee thankfully-- it needed a new DVI card) and now I'm just terribly gunshy about what signal I try to feed it.

I highly doubt it was your pc that caused the DVI card to short out, my guess it could have more likely been a static discharge than you hooking up your pc to the dvi port on the tv.

Quote:
Hopefully because this 8500GT is HDCP compliant I'll be OK, but since I'm not really certain what went wrong the last time, I've been sticking to the HDMI output only thus far.

HDCP has absolutely NOTHING to do with video signals and it being "better" than non-hdcp video cards. HDCP is ONLY for copy protection and nothing else.


- Josh
 

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Discussion Starter #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by umdivx /forum/post/14192270


I am a bit confused here. Why are you even bothering with the Svideo output?

About 6 months ago I played around with hooking a PC to my TV. With a 6200 Nvidia graphics card, I could never view the taskbar in HD-- I needed the Svideo connection to see the whole desktop. I connected it as a 'failsafe' not realizing the latest Nvidia drivers for the 8500GT could solve this for me.


Quote:
That is where a "10 foot" interface comes into play. IE Media Center, Xlobby, Meedio, Media Portal, ect... is that you have a front end gui to do everything you want, so then you have no need for a mouse, or keyboard and don't have to read small text.

I have Media Center with the box, but haven't started trying to use it yet. Too many features-- too little time thus far. If it uses larger fonts that will certainly be a +. However, I really want to use the box for downloading my HD Camcorder video to burn to DVD and view. I figured I'd have to do that on Windows desktop natively, but I guess I'll go down the Media Center path and see where that takes me.

Quote:
Also is your TV a CRT? so 1080i is the MAX you can run?

Yes, the TV is old-- (2004 Rear projection CRT). It will accept 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i from the DVI interface, but will scale everything to 1080i (the native resolution)

Quote:
What program are you using for DVD playback?

Honestly, I'm not sure-- It plays BluRay, HD-DVD, and DVD-- The icon looks kind of like a capital Q. Config says it comes with HP DVD Play HD DVD/BD 2.4. I'm not at all sure what that is behind the scenes.

Quote:
Many TV's/Displays have this issue, its called EDID, so if the pc input changes or the PC goes to sleep and then wakes up from sleep mode when the pc is off or on a different input the PC doesn't see the EDID data and doesn't know that a display is connected and what the display info is. I have solved that issue by using this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


with that EDID box I now can shut off my projector, put the pc to sleep, and not have to worry about the picture ever not coming back.

This sounds relevant. I'll certainly check out your solution.

Quote:
Some TV's handle DVI and HDMI differently. Like My old Samsung LCD had DVI and HDMI. That TV handled PC inputs perfectly via DVI, but with HDMI i couldn't get overscan fixed.


So your tv may handle DVI inputs and HDMI inputs differently. So if video quality is a concern for you, I'd say just use what works and go from there.

My TV only has a DVI input-- not HDMI-- I'm using HDMI-to-DVI cable to go from the HDMI switch to the TV.



Quote:
I highly doubt it was your pc that caused the DVI card to short out, my guess it could have more likely been a static discharge than you hooking up your pc to the dvi port on the tv.

This could be too-- I know it stopped working the same day I was testing it out, but I could have sworn I had both the computer->DVI and the DVD->DVI both working at the same time. But later on that day, the DVD->DVI had stopped. I was swapping cables a lot, so static discharge is not implausible-- never had that sort of trouble before though.

Quote:
HDCP has absolutely NOTHING to do with video signals and it being "better" than non-hdcp video cards. HDCP is ONLY for copy protection and nothing else.

This I knew. However picture vs no-picture qualifies as 'better' in my book
. I'm not interested in stripping HDCP or ripping HD video or any of those topics. I'm happy to leagally play the movies I've rented or purchased via the prescribed copy protection mechanism (as long as it works).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstelter /forum/post/14192738


About 6 months ago I played around with hooking a PC to my TV. With a 6200 Nvidia graphics card, I could never view the taskbar in HD-- I needed the Svideo connection to see the whole desktop. I connected it as a 'failsafe' not realizing the latest Nvidia drivers for the 8500GT could solve this for me.

Actually the nvidia drivers for almost all of the cards solves the overscan issues.

Quote:
I have Media Center with the box, but haven't started trying to use it yet. Too many features-- too little time thus far. If it uses larger fonts that will certainly be a +. However, I really want to use the box for downloading my HD Camcorder video to burn to DVD and view. I figured I'd have to do that on Windows desktop natively, but I guess I'll go down the Media Center path and see where that takes me.

yes media center is great for movie, videos, dvr management but won't be good for pulling out HD camcorder vids as you need to use the cam corder software to do that

Quote:
Yes, the TV is old-- (2004 Rear projection CRT). It will accept 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i from the DVI interface, but will scale everything to 1080i (the native resolution)

What i've done in the past was run a 540p rez with my parents old TV (1080i CRT) which gave me the best resolution vs. text readability.


Then I used the nvidia control software to create short cut keys to do resolution changes on the fly.


So ctrl + F12 would do one resolution, and ctrl + F11 would do another.


Quote:
Honestly, I'm not sure-- It plays BluRay, HD-DVD, and DVD-- The icon looks kind of like a capital Q. Config says it comes with HP DVD Play HD DVD/BD 2.4. I'm not at all sure what that is behind the scenes.

hrm... never heard of that before. must be a re-sell of something that HP does.

Quote:
My TV only has a DVI input-- not HDMI-- I'm using HDMI-to-DVI cable to go from the HDMI switch to the TV.

Then if your still using the same, one and only input on the TV ie the DVI input, in which it is the DVI card that was replaced before then there is absolutely NO difference between any setup you do, it only matters if you are changing the input on the TV, but if your doing HDMI to DVI input on the tv then there is no difference at all.


Quote:
This I knew. However picture vs no-picture qualifies as 'better' in my book
. I'm not interested in stripping HDCP or ripping HD video or any of those topics. I'm happy to leagally play the movies I've rented or purchased via the prescribed copy protection mechanism (as long as it works).

again this has nothing to do with anything BUT hd dvd and blu ray playback. Currently only HD DVD and Blu Ray require HDCP compliance (well maybe cable card but thats a whole nother story there). DVD, or any other video source NEVER uses HDCP at all.


For me I'd rather be able to play the content and not have to screw around with HDCP if all it does it prevent me from playing the said content I paid for so I am more than happy and willing to run AnyDVD HD to remove HDCP requirements that are forced upon us for playing back HD DVD and Blu Ray movies.


- Josh
 

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Discussion Starter #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by umdivx /forum/post/14193593


Actually the nvidia drivers for almost all of the cards solves the overscan issues.

And perhaps the 6200 driver did-- but this other PC I was playing with was Win 2K and for whatever reason I never found any such adjustment, but I came to it almost immediately with this new box. Is that because I overlooked it, or it wasn't as accessible in the win2k driver or it wasn't in the 6200 driver? I'm not going to bother trying to answer that question. All I know is I was frustrated ~6 months ago because I saw no advantage in trying to use the DVI link to my TV-- I stuck with Svideo at the time. But that box was old and didn't even have a DVD player in it-- I was hooking it up primarily as another video device for a network game my kids were trying to play so I really never tried to solve it very hard.


But none of that is to the point-- it is meerly to answer your question about why I was trying to include Svideo at all.

Quote:
yes media center is great for movie, videos, dvr management but won't be good for pulling out HD camcorder vids as you need to use the cam corder software to do that

I played with it a bit last night-- Seems to work fine for me and does solve the readability problem for what it offers. I'll be getting to the camcorder software later this week so that's another hurdle when I get to it.

Quote:
What i've done in the past was run a 540p rez with my parents old TV (1080i CRT) which gave me the best resolution vs. text readability.


Then I used the nvidia control software to create short cut keys to do resolution changes on the fly.


So ctrl + F12 would do one resolution, and ctrl + F11 would do another.

This sounds like a workable solution for my situation. I have to review my TV doc-- I recall it talking about 540p, but not in which contex. So 540p is what-- 540 lines fulll frame progressive every 60th of a second which is the same rate as 1080i only a full frame each time instead of a half a frame each time? So most 1080i sets can display 540p by not interlacing the frames? (I'll look it up).

Quote:
Then if your still using the same, one and only input on the TV ie the DVI input, in which it is the DVI card that was replaced before then there is absolutely NO difference between any setup you do, it only matters if you are changing the input on the TV, but if your doing HDMI to DVI input on the tv then there is no difference at all.

I'm not sure of your point here. My original query was if I hook a cable up to the HDMI output of an 8500GT as opposed to the DVI output, should there be a difference (And I realize that may be an impossible question to answer without knowing which manufacturers card it is). I think you're confirming my intuition that there should be no difference, but I'm not really sure if that's what you're trying to say or not.


But you've been a great help to me--

1) I can look into buying an EDID preserver so the computer will be happy if I change inputs on the HDMI switch or turn the TV off. Workaround for me now is to always shut down the computer and not boot it until the TV/HDMI switch are properly set. Works for me, but not so much for the wife/kids.

2) Going DVI -> HDMI switch -> DVI of TV should be a viable alternative for me to try. Especially if I assume that some sort of static discharge frotzed my TV's DVI card last time rather than the 6200 graphic card.

3) I can see how the TV works in 540p mode for using the computer in 'computer' mode

4) Media center makes for a reasonable interface for using the computer as a glorified DVD player/recorder/internet Video/etc..


Thanks much for the info.
 
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