[TechNovice]

Hi folks - I'm not sure if this is the best area to post this question, but as a HTPC could be the best solution to my problem, thought I'd give it a shot!


Firstly, please go easy on me! I've got a background in PC tech, and dabble in consumer electronics, but my knowledge of professional AV gear is non-existent. It'd be greatly appreciated if you could use language that mere mortals can understand.

Now on to my request for information - thanks in advance if you can help!


I need to capture video and audio of Xbox 360, PS3 and PC games, to use on a gaming website .This will be used for reviews, previews, etc. Note that the video player for this site is still under development. We currently use Final Cut Pro for our video edits. The maximum resolution we'll support is probably going to be 720p, but most users will probably want to watch an even lower resolution due to speed constraints.


I'd like to be able to do this capturing in our regular gaming testing environment. This is comprised of:


Display: Sanyo PLV-Z2000 projector (1080p), connected via HDMI switch box to inputs

Audio: Samsung HT-BD2 7.1 surround sound/Blu-ray, connected via Toslink switch box to inputs

Inputs: Xbox 360, PS3,Gaming PC - all using HDMI for video, Toslink for audio


We may also need to capture Nintendo Wii footage - I believe this uses component out and RCA audio connectors?


I would love your recommendations on the easiest way to capture video and audio for our needs. Again, please note we don't need broadcast quality captures - we're looking to equal the quality of sites like Gametrailers.com. And as my editor uses Final Cut Pro, the format should be easy to use in this program if possible.


Money is also an issue - we simply can't afford to blow $20k on a custom built box to do this. However, note that we do have great HD cameras, so I was thinking that a low tech version of capturing footage could be directly off screen using a camera, and buying a new amp that could output sound to the camera? Would the image quality be acceptable though?


Or is there a device I can buy that will do this, or will I need to build a custom PC for this task? Or is there no way to do it on the above setup, and I'll need to use other cabling other than HDMI and Toslink?


Hope that you guys can help out, even if it's just pointing me to some resources where I can find the answers!

 

[zicoz]

I'd swing by justin.tv, there are alot of people using capturing devices for their consoles for direct streaming to the web. Their quality might not be 720p on the site, but I'm pretty sure some of them have 720p capturing.


But my guess is that you need something like this:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...linkhdextreme/


Or perhaps this:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

 

[Digital_Snacks]

Since your setup is in HDMI, you need to be careful with the HDCP DRM. The HDMI output from your devices are HDCP protected. The alternative is to switch all your video outputs from the consoles to 1080i component (RGB), switch them then connect them to a capture card


One alternative is to use a 5in x 2out HDMI switcher (check out the gefen units at gefen.com), then you'll need an HDFury (HDFury.com) from one of the HDMI out from the switch, using a breakout cable to RGB to a capture like Blackmagic (as suggested by zicoz). Blackmagic has drivers compatible with FCP for capture controls directly from FCP.

 

[TechNovice]

Thanks for the tips guys.


Digital Snacks - as far as I'm aware, it's only when watching films on 360 or PS3 that HDCP is enabled. Games don't use it (apparently - I've googled it, and that seemed to be the consensus).


Does this mean I could simply capture the HDMI output without needing the HD Fury? (is the HDFury used for getting rid of HDCP protection?)


Secondly, will your method allow me to capture the audio over HDMI as well?

 

[MSmith83]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TechNovice /forum/post/16893770


Digital Snacks - as far as I'm aware, it's only when watching films on 360 or PS3 that HDCP is enabled. Games don't use it (apparently - I've googled it, and that seemed to be the consensus).

The Xbox 360 does not use HDCP for games, but my video processor confirms that the PS3 does.

 

[mr007]

for pc games all u need is fraps, u can record video with a press of a button.

 

[TechNovice]

Doh, so the PS3 uses HDCP? Will the HD Fury get around this problem?

 

[Tinker]

just thght, using the Hauppauge HD-PVR might work. If you can split the console video source into two such as one (component) going to the HD-PVR then PC and the other to the other display. There are switches that allow you to go that. Check Gefen and such. You can cap using the PC while still playing on the other display. The delay in the PC cap's don't really matter. You shld be able to get no delay on the other display for playing the game while the PC is cap'ing. You can then edit the PC caps after.

 

[DJWikiera]

The Hauppauge has video pass-through via component, you don't need a switch. There is a 1 second difference going to the PC over USB and doesn't affect the pass-through. You can still watch TV or whatever with the unit off also.

 

[TechNovice]

Guys, from what I've heard, a HTPC with a blackmagic Intensity Pro, will do the job for me - using HDMI.


I just need to double check that the HDFury will strip out the HDCP protection and I'll be good to go.

 

[Digital_Snacks]

TechNovice,


Yes, the Blackmagic Intensity / Pro is a good choice and and good value.

Tech specs on the black-magic.com site.

And yes, it captures audio (2ch) through HDMI.


And FCP / Premiere should more than cover your editing needs. A cheaper alternative is the Pinnacle Studio, a great choice for PC editing enthusiasts.


I'm not sure about the HDCP DRM across your platforms. Best is first to try each console i guess or seek the specs. However, if only ONE console uses HDCP on games, you'll need an HDfury on one of the HDMI switch output, or you'll have to disconnect/reconnect the HDMI cables every time...

 

[Tinker]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DJWikiera /forum/post/16898489


The Hauppauge has video pass-through via component, you don't need a switch. There is a 1 second difference going to the PC over USB and doesn't affect the pass-through. You can still watch TV or whatever with the unit off also.

Not talking about the HD-PVR pass thru. I am talking about the split from the source, the console end. Not sure if the HD-PVR will delay even the pass thru since its going thru its circuits. By splitting at the source, there wil be no delay with the gaming side. But if the pass thru does the trick, then great. I have the HD PVR and never even used the pass thru...I guess I shld RTFM sometime....LOL

 

[cybrsage]

I plugged my Wii into the HTPC once, but there was a time lag when going through it to the TV...so it became impossible to play.

 

[sneals2000]

The HD-PVR has an analogue component pass-through, and will introduce no lag via this route - so you can play games with no lag if you watch the pass-through feed.


The HD-PVR will also compress this 720p or 1080i HD component input to H264 (which will delay it as H264 requires multiple frames to analyse), the H264 is passed over USB, and then can be decoded back in the PC. The decoding also requires multiple frames to be buffered so will add more delay. Thus the PC will show decoded video with considerable lag - hence the requirement to play watching the pass-through, undelayed feed, rather than the PC decoded feed.


Think the HD-PVR may be the easiest solution as it avoids HDCP.

 

[Jackal55]

In the old days I would use a video splitter switch and feed the footage into my camcorder while playing back in real time to the TV. Then I could capture the video to my PC and then edit it when I was ready.


Now I'm also looking into the Intensity Pro now. Then I can use HDMI ports or Component for capturing game footage. I would also use a splitter in this set up too.

 

[TechNovice]

Thank you all very much for your suggestions. I've decided on the following setup, which theoretically *should* allow me to capture HDMI signals from the PS3 and 360.


1.) I'll replace my existing HDMI switch (4in/1out) with a new 4 in/2 out HDMI Switch.

2.) Goodbye to the shoddy Samsung integrated Amp/Blu-ray player, and in with an amp that can handle HDMI audio (any suggestions that will work with the Sammy's slightly cheap speakers, and give me 7.1?)

3.) All Audio and Video will be transmitted via HDMI

4.) One output from the HDMI switch will go direct to my projector.

5.) The other output from the HDMI switch will go into a HD Fury dongle, to strip any HDCP protection.

5.) The HD Fury will then be passed to a Home Theatre PC, using a Blackmagic Intensity Pro to capture at 720p, with two channel audio.

6.) If and when we need it, we'll also be able to use the HTPC to capture Wii footage. PC footage will be captured using Fraps.


And there you have it! Voila, a relatively simple system which allows me to stick with HDMI and still grab footage. My only concern is the HD Fury - there's a chance Sony or Microsoft may release a firmware which negates this, but from what I can tell this is unlikely.


Thank you all so much for your kind assistance - you've saved me from spending thousands on a video capture system that I didn't need and probably wouldn't work. If you've got any other advice, please feel free to add to this thread. And thanks again - it's folks like you that make the Net such an amazing place to be.

 

[TechNovice]

Ok, just hit a slight hitch after speaking to the supplier of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro. The HD Fury doesn't output in HDMI, instead using a VGA output.


Am I ok to just use a VGA to Component adaptor to enable the HD Fury to plug into the Intensity Pro? And in this case, what happens to my audio?


Bah, I knew it was all sounding too good to be true =(

 

[TechNovice]

Hmm, just had an idea - is there a HDCP stripper that outputs in HDMI that you guys can recommend?

 

[DJWikiera]

If you look at the specs they say it outputs HDMI, the HDFury doesn't output in HDMI neither does the AVFury.


Your better of with the Hauppauge HDPVR 1212, less hassles and great capabilities compaired to anything else you can buy. Over the years I've tried them all from ATI -Canopus and it can't be beat for the price and performance.

 

[TechNovice]

Hey DJWikiera - sorry, there was a typo in my most recent post. I meant to say "The HD Fury doesn't output in HDMI, instead using a VGA output."


I've since fixed the typo.


The hauppage box looks great, especially due to the Toslink input. Does it pass through the signal, so I can record while playing?