[BBS G35]

Overall not just Video.


Anyone know the answer to this?


The bluray movie bitrates are easy to find with google, but im having no such luck with HD-DVD movies.

 

[darinp2]

I haven't looked at the file sizes for Hulk, but I did a back-of-the-napkin estimate for "King Kong" at one point and figured it wasn't far from 15Mbps for an average for the video. The other things are fixed (like 1.5Mbps DD+), so if you could get those then an overall average could be estimated. As far as overall peak, I think you can pretty much count on over 90% of HD DVD's being around 30Mbps, plus maybe a little bit since they can buffer and exceed the ~30Mbps peak mux rate for short times.


--Darin

 

[azmodien]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS G35 /forum/post/0



The bluray movie bitrates are easy to find with google, but im having no such luck with HD-DVD movies.

Because it doesn't matter with HD-DVD. There hasn't been many compression related issues like with BD. Even titles with banding etc, have been found to be the fault of the master rather than the encode.

 

[BBS G35]



Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 /forum/post/0


I haven't looked at the file sizes for Hulk, but I did a back-of-the-napkin estimate for "King Kong" at one point and figured it wasn't far from 15Mbps for an average for the video. The other things are fixed (like 1.5Mbps DD+), so if you could get those then an overall average could be estimated. As far as overall peak, I think you can pretty much count on over 90% of HD DVD's being around 30Mbps, plus maybe a little bit since they can buffer and exceed the ~30Mbps peak mux rate for short times.


--Darin

Peak max rate is 32.4 right? So it can go slightly above 32.4 for a short time?

 

[IeraseU]

No hd dvd players currently display the bitrate or codec info, unlike blu-ray players, which is also the reason the blu-ray bitrate is easy to find.

 

[ryoohki]

most VC1 are from between 14mbits avg to 24mbits peak. We had Cjplay that compressed some movies for Warner and telled us the exact bitrate..

 

[BBS G35]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benes /forum/post/0


Really? Is there any evidence of this other than some obviously biased insiders word? I find it hard to believe that a master would have the level of banding we have seen on some titles. And for some strange coincidence only movies that end up being encoded with VC1 have banding on their masters.



The overall Kong bitrate is 20.59Mbps. If you subtract the audio and the size of the U-Control track you get 17.42Mbps left over for video. Its probably a little less than that when you account for overhead.

Isn't Dolby Digital Plus at least 3.0Mbps on HD-DVD??

 

[BBS G35]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benes /forum/post/0


No. All of the DD+ tracks so far are 1.5Mbps. The Japanese discs use 2Mbps.


For Kong the audio tracks are 1536Kbps, 768Kbps, 768Kbps. And you can use 32Kbps for each of the 3 subtitle tracks. And either 1.8Mbps or 2Mbps for the U-control track.


The subtitle and U-control numbers come from cjplay. He said 1.8Mbps but some folks decided 2Mbps was more accurate. He also stated 1.5Mbps for TrueHD but the same folks bumped it up to 1.8Mbps.

I see, so 20.59 - 3.8 - .2 for "overhead".


SO like 16.59 AVB?

 

[eightninesuited]

Can anyone guess why these two movies didn't come with lossless audio (True HD or PCM?) Was it disc space, bandwidth or both?

 

[Forceflow]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benes /forum/post/0


No. All of the DD+ tracks so far are 1.5Mbps. The Japanese discs use 2Mbps.

Are you sure that DD+ can do 2mbps CBR? I thought that DD+ only operated in whole block frame values (6 block-frame = 640kbps and on). With 2-block frames at 1.5mbps or 1 block frames for 3mbps? Can you get in between values?

 

[BuGsArEtAsTy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benes /forum/post/0


Doh! In my previous number I forgot to subtract the U-Control track. So it would actually be:


20.59 Mbps total bitrate

- 1.536 (DD+ English)

- 0.768 (DD+ Spanish)

- 0.768 (DD+ French)

- 0.096 (3 subtitle tracks)

- 2.000 (U-control)

---------------------

15.42 Mbps for video.


And I haven't seen any estimate for the amount of overhead on HD DVD but its safe to assume that the video bitrate is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15Mbps average.

So the 12 Mbps average as assumed in this thread is probably too low then you think? (I'm talking about VC-1 with the lastest encoder improvements.)


BTW, I wonder why subtitles need 32 Kbps. I would have guessed lower than that but I guess I'm mistaken.


And is the 1.8 Mbps for U-control based on VC-1? In that thread, the number for IME was 3.5 Mbps, but I suspect that was for MPEG2.


Do you have audio bitrates for any other movies? I wonder if any of the sync issues are related to audio bitrate. I note that the sync issues are worst with TrueHD, and are present on many big releases with DD+ to a lesser extent. However, with mono tracks and extras, as well as commentary tracks, usually they are bang-on (but not always).

 

[BBS G35]

So whats the maximum bitrate for HD-DVD? I see 32Mbps, and 36.5Mbps thrown around. Or are these two completely different numbers for two completely different things

 

[BuGsArEtAsTy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS G35 /forum/post/0


So whats the maximum bitrate for HD-DVD? I see 32Mbps, and 36.5Mbps thrown around. Or are these two completely different numbers for two completely different things

The maximum total bitrate (including all video and audio peaks) is 30.24 Mbps. The maximum video bitrate (peak) is 29.4 Mbps.