[hokkemirin]

Hello, I am a new member to this forum, I used to read every so often. I moved to Japan a few months ago; I was a fan of Japanese TV long before I came here. I now think I have a fairly unique problem when it comes to capturing HDTV to the PC. I humbly request help with my problem from the well-versed-in-this-sort-of-thing members of this forum.


Anyway, after some time has passed, I have acquired a Sony DST-TX1 BS tuner and there are no problems with it. I connect it to my JVC HM-DHX1 DVHS deck using one firewire cable and everything is still perfect. The signal reaches my DVHS deck as HDTV and I can record HDTV on tape.


My problem begins from this point. While I can record HDTV to DVHS tape, I cannot watch or upload it to my PC over firewire. I connected my DVHS deck's 2nd firewire port to my PC. My PC can remotely control the VCR using various programs intended to do so, but there is no visible or recordable output from my DVHS deck's firewire port. The deck is indeed working, as I can see its output on my PC using my ATI All-in-wonder 9800 pro's external s-video input. The capture programs do indeed capture .ts files, and they are reasonably sized 100MBs for 30 seconds, but they are unplayable by every program I've tried, I think because they aren't actually recording anything.


I have searched for many, many hours on how to solve my problem. Japanese chat room members in rooms who deal with this sort of thing kick me out of their channel when I ask. I have tried using various capturing programs, FAQs and tutorials, message boards, etc.


My PCs specs:

Windows XP pro

AMD Athlon 3000+

MSI K8T NEO-FIS2R motherboard with 1GB of crucial RAM

ATI All-in-wonder 9800 pro video card

[As far as I know] The latest PowerDVD and WinDVD versions [5 deluxe and 6 platinum respectively].


While I am far from an expert, here are my theories

1. The firewire ports on my DVHS machine are both output only. I thought firewire by nature goes both ways, but I could be wrong or JVC could have possibly inhibited the VTR to prevent copying. However, I read about people on 2ch who use their firewire ports to cap with no problems using the same VCR, so I doubt this is the problem.


2. The firewire port on my PC is only semi-functional. It can control the VTR remotely but it can't display its video.


3. There is something wrong with the firewire cable. Maybe one or more of the [6pin to 4pin] connections are bad, including the one(s) that carry the audio and video.


4. I need to configure the HDTV capturing program a certain way, and can't find out how. The main one I use is DVHS_Play_2.1.0.9 [aka nonotan].


Thank you so much for any help. It is so frustrating to spend all this time and money and still not being able to watch HDTV on my PC over firewire, let alone record it. Even more frustrating when people who know never explicitly help or worse, kick me away. If there's anything I can do in return for this forum, I will do my best to do so. I working in TV in the USA, but I am not terribly familiar with the consumer side of things, let alone the HTPC Japanese consumer side of things.

 

[CKNA]

There is simple answer to your problem. All digital TV in Japan, be it SD or HD is 5C copy once protected. It works on JVC DVHS, because it is 5C compliant. It will not work on any computer as no PC or MAC hardware is 5C compliant. You are out of luck. There is nothing that can be done.


In US only cable channels have 5C protection. OTA does not so it can still be recorded on PC.

 

[hokkemirin]

I don't mean to blindly go against what you're saying, but I have seen HDTV broadcasts' .ts files on filesharing networks minutes after they're done, this is as of 4 days ago, so I am pretty sure it can be done. I just don't know what their setup is. The reason I got the equipment I did is because I read it is the most compatible equipment for this purpose. Of course no one wants to explicitly say how to configure it. I thought maybe at first they're using a PC with D4 in, but from the shopping I did, I couldn' find any cards for the PC with D4 in. Maybe there is no such thing, or maybe it is an underground type of piece of equipment.


Maybe Timecop knows...Thanks for the reply.

 

[Wizziwig]

You could try loading the transport file into my repair tool. See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=1

 

[CKNA]

Quote:

Originally posted by hokkemirin I don't mean to blindly go against what you're saying, but I have seen HDTV broadcasts' .ts files on filesharing networks minutes after they're done, this is as of 4 days ago, so I am pretty sure it can be done. I just don't know what their setup is. The reason I got the equipment I did is because I read it is the most compatible equipment for this purpose. Of course no one wants to explicitly say how to configure it. I thought maybe at first they're using a PC with D4 in, but from the shopping I did, I couldn' find any cards for the PC with D4 in. Maybe there is no such thing, or maybe it is an underground type of piece of equipment. Maybe Timecop knows...Thanks for the reply.

Those ts files of shows are from what channels?. Give me names and how they are delivered. Maybe some sat channels do not use 5C yet. D4 is just Japanese connector for analog 1080i. You can't use it to capture anything. TS files come from capturing mpeg2 transport stream directly.

 

[hokkemirin]

The show in question was on BS-Fuji. As far as I know, all HDTV here is encrypted with something called DTCP digitally and CPRM wen using analog. It is designed to only allow copying once. However, the way to get .ts files, accoridng to what I and others have read at numerous places, is to record them to DVHS and then capture them on your PC using firewire.


One of the reasons this is so difficult is all of these systems are unique to Japan I think, and while I have studied Japanese for about 7 years, there are still many technical terms I don't know, and I have an even harder time when they're written down.

 

[CKNA]

Quote:

Originally posted by hokkemirin The show in question was on BS-Fuji. As far as I know, all HDTV here is encrypted with something called DTCP digitally and CPRM wen using analog. It is designed to only allow copying once. However, the way to get .ts files, accoridng to what I and others have read at numerous places, is to record them to DVHS and then capture them on your PC using firewire. One of the reasons this is so difficult is all of these systems are unique to Japan I think, and while I have studied Japanese for about 7 years, there are still many technical terms I don't know, and I have an even harder time when they're written down.

DTCP is the same as 5C and is not unique to Japan. 5C is and will be used everywhere. As I said you can't record to PC becuase DTCP encryptes the ts. You will get a file on PC but it is just corrupted data. DVHS records it but it is still encrypted when going out on firewire.

5C has not been cracked. They must be using PC sat card to capture the stream. What exactly is BS-Fuji? Is it premium channel or basic?. Did you try recording BS-Fuji youself?. Maybe they are not using DTCP on some shows. That is what Wowow used to do. They only encrypted turned on DTCP on certain movies.

 

[hokkemirin]

The BS in BS-Fuji stands for broadcast satellite. It is free for anyone with a BS-tuner. All shows to my knowledge are encrypted here using DTCP, and this show is no different, but its ts was shared. There are so many tutorials that I don't want to believe all of them are red herrings. But I've tried them all and none of them work, so I continue to think either I haven't configured something correctly or something I have is broken...

 

[CKNA]

Did you download that ts file of that show?. Did you try to play it on your PC?. If you have, did it work?.


And again did you try recording to your PC a show from BS-Fuji?. You did not answer that question.

 

[hokkemirin]

Yes I tried to make my own .ts file of shows from BS-Fuji, as usual I was able to make a big file with nothing in it that is unplayable. But the fact that it creates a .ts and it isn't 0bytes makes me think it's possible somehow.


I did download the .ts of that show and it plays perfectly on my PC.

 

[GoTimothy]

quote>>>>>>>>>>>>My problem begins from this point. While I can record HDTV to DVHS tape, I cannot watch or upload it to my PC over firewire. I connected my DVHS deck's 2nd firewire port to my PC. My PC can remotely control the VCR using various programs intended to do so, but there is no visible or recordable output from my DVHS deck's firewire port. The deck is indeed working, as I can see its output on my PC using my ATI All-in-wonder 9800 pro's external s-video input. The capture programs do indeed capture .ts files, and they are reasonably sized 100MBs for 30 seconds, but they are unplayable by every program I've tried, I think because they aren't actually recording anything.>>>>>>>>>


various programs intended to do so?


Did you try CAPDVHS or DVHSTOOLS to capture the streem to hard drive?


You can only get them here and neither program, allows you to view the video while captureing the streem. You can see the hard drive light cranking, if its capturing.


CAPDVHS is better, you can capure the streem to hard drive, then send the streem back to the JVC for viewing on TV threw the JVC. DVHSTOOLS will do the same, but you have to have a tape in the machine to send the streem. No need for a tape to play the streem with CapDvhs.


Or use VLC to watch & play .ts streems on your Computer & monitor.


Do not hook both fire ports to the same computer, it's a no no.


Use HDTV2Mpg to trim the files if you like and cut them into files you can burn on DVD or CD.

 

[hokkemirin]

The "various programs intended to do so" can all control the VCR remotely, but none of them can record from the VCR. The programs are DVHSTools, CapDVHS, Nonotan [aka D_VHS_Play] and Murdoc. When it records, all I get is a black screen. Using Nonotan, when I click on the TV function to simply view my DVHS deck over firewire, I still get a black screen. When recorded, the file is indeed a .ts and it's .ts sized, but nothing can play it. If it is DTCP interfering with me and there is nothing I can do, then I'll just be very sad that I wasted all this money on a DVHS deck. At least I can record things on tape, but I'll never be able to watch HDTV, which is what I bought it for.


I only have one firewire cable plugged into my computer.


So how do the anime otaku do it? The must either solder something or have a hacked B-cas card or something.

 

[hokkemirin]

BTW what is a PC sat card, is it readily available to the public and how much is it?

 

[robena]

Quote:

Originally posted by hokkemirin Yes I tried to make my own .ts file of shows from BS-Fuji, as usual I was able to make a big file with nothing in it that is unplayable. But the fact that it creates a .ts and it isn't 0bytes makes me think it's possible somehow.

I have tried several times to dump Wowow recordings to PC, and it always make a big meaningless file.


I think that the show you downloaded must have been dumped with a hacked set top box allowing direct dump to a PC.


Once a TS file is on the PC, it's easy to remove the 5C flag. TStoATSC does that for example.


But once it's on a tape, it's (to my knowledge) impossible.


It might be possible in theory that somebody hacked a DVHS VCR to make it ignore the 5C flag. If you find out that's the case, PM me...

 

[hokkemirin]

Thanks, I'll try this program. Truthfully, I'd rather record directly to PC and skip the DVHS deck entirely, but I read DVHS was necessary since they implemented the DTCP encryption in April.


As for PC Sat Cards, I just looked a bit...I wonder if that would solve my problem, I don't know, but would I need a special one for Japan? Or is Japan's DTCP the same as everyone else's 5C? If so, hopefully people around the wrld can crack it. Or maybe Real will spill the beans again.


OK, I tried both TStoATSC and TStoATSC3 and both programs closed immediately upon opening them. Then I thought maybe they are drag and drop programs as in drag your .ts onto the icon on your desktop and it messes with it, but as far as I know, it didn't do anything. I read both readme files and it looks like maybe a command line program that I don't understand...


Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[robena]

Quote:

Originally posted by hokkemirin OK, I tried both TStoATSC and TStoATSC3 and both programs closed immediately upon opening them.

The file you have on drive is blank, no program can do anything with it.


TStoATSC will be useful only if you find a way to directly record on your PC without using your DVHS deck.

 

[hokkemirin]

OK, I don't know why I never thought of this before, but:


Now I can get a playable .ts [when recording unencrypted, non HDTV NHK] using either nonotan or capDVHS...but still neither can handle an encrypted HDTV source. This does reassure me that I have everything set up correctly, the thing stopping me is the encryption and not a problem on my end. I'll work on that...


BTW how do you use TStoATSC? The program closes immediately upon opening. Before I can load anything into it, it's already closed. Does it have a line in its programming to not work after a certain date?

 

[robena]

Quote:

Originally posted by hokkemirin BTW how do you use TStoATSC? The program closes immediately upon opening. Before I can load anything into it, it's already closed. Does it have a line in its programming to not work after a certain date?

Click on the readme.html file to see how to use it.


It's a command line tool, you have to run it manually in a DOS window, and pass to it file names and PID values.


To find out about the PID values in a TS file, you can use HDTVtoMPEG2.


I modified TStoATSC to avoid having to pass it the PID values. If you want the modified version, PM me with your e-mail address.

 

[CKNA]

Quote:

Originally posted by hokkemirin Thanks, I'll try this program. Truthfully, I'd rather record directly to PC and skip the DVHS deck entirely, but I read DVHS was necessary since they implemented the DTCP encryption in April. As for PC Sat Cards, I just looked a bit...I wonder if that would solve my problem, I don't know, but would I need a special one for Japan? Or is Japan's DTCP the same as everyone else's 5C? If so, hopefully people around the wrld can crack it. Or maybe Real will spill the beans again. OK, I tried both TStoATSC and TStoATSC3 and both programs closed immediately upon opening them. Then I thought maybe they are drag and drop programs as in drag your .ts onto the icon on your desktop and it messes with it, but as far as I know, it didn't do anything. I read both readme files and it looks like maybe a command line program that I don't understand... Thanks for the suggestion though.

Yes you need special sat card for Japan. DVB card that works in US or Europe will not work in Japan since they use ISDB-S. I have never seen one but they might have come out with now.

 

[CKNA]

Quote:

Originally posted by hokkemirin OK, I don't know why I never thought of this before, but: Now I can get a playable .ts [when recording unencrypted, non HDTV NHK] using either nonotan or capDVHS...but still neither can handle an encrypted HDTV source. This does reassure me that I have everything set up correctly, the thing stopping me is the encryption and not a problem on my end. I'll work on that... BTW how do you use TStoATSC? The program closes immediately upon opening. Before I can load anything into it, it's already closed. Does it have a line in its programming to not work after a certain date?

There is no hack for DTCP. I am sure of that. You can search all you want but I know you will not find it.