[HendersonD]

I am just starting the design on a new home theather in my basement. I will be contracting out the HVAC but wanted to get a general idea of what options are out their. Right now I have a moderate home theater in this space (14 x 19 x 8) but will be doing a complete upgrade.


One thing we have found is if more than 2 or 3 people watch a movie right now it can get hot and stuffy. Currently, I have baseboard electric heat, no ventilation, and no air condtioning in my home theater. I do have a nice forced air gas furnace that heats the upstairs of the house and central air.


I will be calling a few HVAC contractors and have them over next week. I do want to keep the room at a comfortable temperature year round and have good air circulation. What type of options are out there so I can talk intelligently with these contractors?

- duct work off my exisisting system?

- would I need to zone it given the heating and cooling load upstairs is different than in the basement?

- some type of separate system to heat, cool, and ventilate this space?

- other options?


Thanks

Dave

 

[usabrian]

That's pretty much the REAL options...the theater loads are totally different than any other rooms so you are down to zoning or separate system really.


Brian

 

[Scott Jelsma]

Dave,

I'm at the same point in the design of my HT. (Basement theater 14' X 23' X 8.75'). I've talked with a couple of HVAC people and I think I am going to go with a zoned system. The loads for my basement will be totally different than for the rest of the house.


One of my biggest concerns however is HVAC noise control and the two contractors I've talked with haven't seemed to be overly knowledgeable in that area. I'll keep researching before I make a final decision.

 

[maddogmc]

If you are happy with the rest of your home as is, upgrading to a zoned system will probably cost as much or more than a small separate system for the HT. As you both understand, the HT is a completely different environment from the rest of the home.


You may find yourself needing to cool the HT when the rest of the home is calling for heat. Residential zoned systems can't handle this situation (at least, not elegantly). This situation presents no problem for separate systems. Unless there is a significant cost benefit, I would go for a separate system.


BTW, I currently have a Carrier zoned system and occasionally wish the HT was on a system of its own.

 

[watchdoc]

Get a ductless mini split heat pump. I got my 12000 btu unit for $700 installed. They are super quiet and you won't have to hack into your existing system. Popular brands are Mitsubishi, Sanyo, Soleus, EMI, Hitachi, Carrier, Fedders, etc... They range in price from about $400-$1200 depending on brand and features.

 

[hardwired]

watchdoc,

Can you post a pic of what the mini split looks like in your theater room and the outdoor unit? I was told a mini split was not a good idea for an HT but that price is absurdly low and you mention it's super quiet. BTW what brand did you have installed and what is the SEER rating?

 

[cw_racefan]

Interesting, tell us more about this mini-split? Is yours both heating and cooling? One zone or more? 120 or 240v? What sort of electrical hookups are required? I assume a disconnect for the outside unit but does the inside just use a regular breaker? How does the condensate drain? Do you have to run a condensate line from the inside unit to a drain?


Sorry for all the questions, have never seen these until now, and it sounds like it may be just what I need! My current HVAC system is just barely heavy enough to add my basement to, and this sounds like it may be just the "boost" that it needs.


Thanks!

Craig

 

[dwightrahl]

watchdoc,


Wow - you got a great deal! I had a 9,000 btu mini-split heat pump installed in my theater, and it cost me $2,000 (not including the electrical hookup).


Mine is a Fujitsu, and the indoor unit is whisper-quiet.


The Fujitsu I have runs on a single 15 amp, 110 volt curcuit that goes outside the house to a disconnect, then from there to the outdoor unit. From the outdoor unit back into the house there are 2 copper lines for the refrigerant, and wires for both control and power to the indoor portion of the unit. The indoor unit is remote cotrolled via a handheld IR remote. I may actually get around to programming it into my universal remote control someday.


The electrical hook-up was easy; in fact, I did it myself as part of the electrical work I did in finishing my basement.


There are pictures of it in my gallery - I may paint the cover of the unit to make it match the wall someday...


Dwight

 

[watchdoc]

I learned about these things on hvac-talk.com when I asked what would be good for my HT room. I am purchasing a unit from Soleus Air which is a chinese company that uses Hitachi parts. While I would like to buy the Japanese Mitsubishi Mr. Slim or Sanyo units, they cost nearly 3 times as much plus installation. I'm also using my credit card to purchase the unit that will automatically add one full year to the warranty. I am setting up a single zone system but several companies make multizone systems that use one outside unit and up to three inside blowers. SEER ratings range from about 10-11.5 and you can get them in 115 and 230. The unit I'm getting is a 12000 btu heatpump, is 230v, and has 500watts of supplemental heat strips built in. Here are some links. I've done some research so if you have any questions, lemme know.

Soleus Air

Mitsubishi Mr Slim

Friedrich Dustless Split

GenieAc... wholesale prices

AJ Madison.... lots of mini splits here

This is the unit i bought...... I got it for $499 plus shipping

 

[mich5]

How do you run the outside unit when it's 10F outside?

 

[watchdoc]

since it's a heat pump, the heating capacity will have deminishing returns starting at about 40 degrees F. The Soleus indoor unit I bought has 500 watts of heating strips to help take up some of the slack and the outdoor unit has a defrost mode. Obviously, this isn't ideal but here in eastern North Carolina, it simply doesn't stay that cold for extended amounts of time. If it were really really cold and the unit doesn't perform, I would simply use a space heater for the evening. I guess everything is a compromise at some point and there's no free lunches!!

 

[mich5]

I was wondering about cooling for HT during cold winter nights, not heating. I read here that sometimes HT needs A/C to cool down in winter.

 

[watchdoc]

I'm not sure about the Soleus brand but several brands do offer 0 degree cooling options for server rooms etc. They will keep cooling at very low temps. Check some of the link and look for that option. I believe Friedrich and Mitsubishi offer that option.

 

[ElCid]

What about a comparison of noise levels? I know the pros usually cringe at noise from mini-splits in a home theaters, but I'm struggling with this as an option as I'll likely need to cool my 12-ft (ish) by 17-ft (ish) theater in the winter while the rest of the house needs heat (gas).


Basic specs from a similar sized Panasonic Whisperbreeze as compared to Mits Slim:


Panny:

cooling 12,000 btu/hr

heating 13,500 btu/hr

noise 39dB Hi / 29 dB Lo


Mits:

cooling 12,900 btu/hr

heating 13,500 btu/hr

noise 42dB Hi / 36 dB Lo


Any other brands in the same size range that claim to be quieter?

 

[watchdoc]

I believe anything below 40db is considered "wisper" quiet. Every mini split I've seen was very quiet and most home theater contractors I've spoken with weren't even familiar with them although most HVAC installers are.

 

[Marc Ye]

I agree with Maddogmc in purchasing a separate system if you can swing it. I don't agree with Watchdog using a mini split system. Though a mini split system may be the "cheaper" way to go, the noise criteria for that type of system is too high for a theater. Noise floor is critical in home theaters. If you want to hear detail in the film, an NC rating of 20 (considered an excellent listening condition) which has a dba rating of less than 30dba. A dba level of about 42-47 will result in a NC rating of 35-40 which is considered moderately good listening condition.


Using a zoned system from the already installed system has it's inherent problems as well. The compressor is the culprit in which cold starts below 40 degree's Fahrenheit may reduce the life of the unit significantly, unless you install an ambient kit to the unit. Just a few thoughts to consider.

 

[Dennis Erskine]

Any mini-split with an NR or NC of greater than 20 is NOT a good system for a Home Theater. I know of no mini-split that can meet these requirements.

 

[watchdoc]

It's watchdoc... not watchdog... I'm a watchmaker not a securty dog.


Anyway, if you can afford a complete system, go for it. Mini-Splits are much quieter than window units or PTAC's. Personally, I couldn't tell that it was any louder than my in home split system.


Like many people on this board, I can't afford to spend $2,500 for a split system installed in a 500 sq ft room that I only plan to use once or twice a week. The $700 installed mini split is a perfect fit for me and the noise level is still whisper quiet. If I had a huge budget, I'd be happy to give a deigner like Dennis my money to do everything to the Nth degree to achieve the lowest sound floor possible. His designs and advice are certainly worth every penny..... if you have the extra pennies that is.


My suggestion to everyone trying to weigh the options would be to listen to one for yourself.

 

[maddogmc]

I agree that Mini-splits are quieter than window units but, as Dennis says, that isn't quiet enough for most HT environments. If a mini-split is the only economic option, you might be able to silence it somewhat by building it into a soffit and extending some duct work/diffusers from the unit before venting it into the room. Plan carefully if you decide to do this so as not to restrict the airflow.


Good Luck!

 

[HendersonD]

Has anyboydy used one of the high velocity air conditioning units made by Unico or Spacepak for a home theater, particularly in a basement? These unit have add on heaters and are said to be very quiet.

http://www.spacepak.com/
http://www.unicosystem.com/


The other option I have thought about is baseboard electric (I know it does not look great) coupled with a Heat or Energy Recovery Ventilator. The problem with my current home theater is it gets stuffy when I have more than 4 people in it for a 2 hour movie. Since it is below grade (basement) I thought if I could get better air circulation with a heat or energy recovery ventilator then maybe I could save on the expense of air conditioning this space and installing another complete system to do it. Baseboard electric is very cheap to install and an HRV or ERV costs about $700 or $800

http://energyoutlet.com/res/hrv/


Any thoughts on either of these options?


Dave