[Michael W.]

So, my combo HT and game room is nearing completion. I have been on this forum for the past 6 months reading up on everything and trying to figure out what will fit my needs. Room is 23' x 18', but half of it will have a pool table, so I have 18' length x 13' width for the HT part. A single row of seats will be at 14' back from the front wall, but screen will be about 1' in front of the wall, so a 12.5' - 13' viewing distance. I was planning on going with a 110" 16:9 screen but might go with a 2.35:1 screen around the same height as the 110" 16:9.


I used to have a DLP rear projection TV and NEVER saw a single rainbow on it. Figured I was immune. A month or two ago I went to a HT store and saw an Optoma and low and behold I saw a rainbow. Then I went to a Magnolia store and saw an Optoma HD80 and not only did I see rainbows here and there but I started to feel dizzy. Last week I went to another HT store that had a Runco RS1100 Ultra running in Cinescope. I was seeing rainbows like crazy all over the screen and I had to leave after 10 minutes because I started to feel nauseous. So much for the color-wheel based DLP's...


Prior to realizing I had rainbow problems I had the Planar 8150 on my short list of projectors to go for if I wanted a good projector to last me a few years. I had the BenQ W5000 on my short list as well as a projector I can get now and upgrade in 6-8 months when some better stuff comes out after CEDIA with losing very little money. I haven't been able to see either of these to figure out if the rainbows will bother me, but frankly, I am not so sure any color wheel based projector will work for me.


So, my alternatives are 3-chip systems. DILA, SXRD, LCD, or DLP. I already ruled out LCD because of dust blobs, etc... I saw the VW40 Sony recently and while it looked OK it just wasn't fantastic, seemed somewhat dim and flat next to the Optoma HD80 in the next room. I am also very sensitive to, and hate, motion blur.


I went to Noah's house and saw his RS1 and Don's InFocus 777. Noah's RS1 looked great, but I was really captivated by the brightness and punch of the 3-chip DLP. Since my room is multi-purpose, has 3 big windows and a french door, I am also worried that I will need lots of lumens for daytime use while friends are playing pool and we want to watch sports.


Everything points to 3-chip DLP to get what I need in the lumen department while having good contrast ratio and colors. Only issue is price. No way I can justify dumping $10k+ into a projector. But... I have found that I can get a pre-owned Sim2 C3X-e 720p projector for close to the price of the Planar 8150. This would be the "e" model with the built in CMS, 10-bit processing, etc...


Any opinions on which way to go? It seems kind of backwards to be buying a 720p product when 1080p is the norm, especially spending this amount of money on it. But, it seems 3-chip DLP is what I enjoy watching the most (from what little I have seen so far), will fit my requirements best with light output, and 720p from a money perspective is my only option with this particular technology.


-- Michael

 

[video_bit_bucket]

I have a 130x55 SMX scope screen matched to an Infocus 777 and a UH380. I sit between 12 and 13 feet from the screen. You can see some panel structure in white fields especially when the anamorphic lens is in place. So if you want to see none of the panel structure you may be disappointed with the 720 PJ. However I think that the three chip DLP 777 (and presumably the Sim2 C3x-e would as well) has a certain quality I really like, and the brightness is for me. From time to time I think that perhaps I should have gotten a 1080, then I go into a HT store and go home happy again with my choice.


I personally think that the limits of our available sources (transfer quality ect) are more an issue than if you are projecting at 720 or 1080.


The 720/1080 debate has raged for quite a while as has the 1 chip/3 chip/DILA/SXRD/LCD debate just as the zoom vs lens for anamorphic projection. I would suggest if you have seen something you like go with it. I know for myself after months of looking when I saw the 777 on demo I knew that was what I wanted. I would anticipate the Sim2 would be a step up from the 777 but with the same "look", if you like it that would be the ticket.

 

[Will Binegar]

I went from an Infocus 7210 to a Sim2 C3X-e and have been very happy with the upgrade. Seating is at about 13-14 feet in a mixed use family room without total light control. The screen is a 100" diagonal (87" wide 16:9) Dalite HCCV. It's been a nice step up in pop and depth. In my setup, those extra lumens come in handy.

 

[Francis Medina]

Michael, try the Marantz VP-15s1 or VP-11s2. They put out great picture, very reliable and built like a tank.

 

[Michael W.]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Medina /forum/post/14182391


Michael, try the Marantz VP-15s1 or VP-11s2. They put out great picture, very reliable and built like a tank.

Actually, the Marantz was early on in the running, 11s2 was pushing my budget, 15s1 was better for me due to price and extra lumens. However, when the Planar came out and was comparable in performance to the 11s2 and the 15s1 price that took over. However, with my sensitivty to rainbows I have now pretty much ruled out single chip DLP.


--Michael

 

[Francis Medina]

11S2's color wheel is adjustable to eliminate the rainbows. I have the 15s1 and I rarely see the rainbows and see them only when I move my eyes side to side "real fast" on bright with dark background scenes. How much budget are you looking at?

 

[Michael W.]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Medina /forum/post/14183528


11S2's color wheel is adjustable to eliminate the rainbows. I have the 15s1 and I rarely see the rainbows and see them only when I move my eyes side to side "real fast" on bright with dark background scenes. How much budget are you looking at?

Here is the problem... I like sitting close to the front of a theater, I like the immersive experience. So, under normal viewing my eyes are moving around the screen. Furthermore, I find myself feeling sick when I watch single DLP's, during watching my eyes feel slightly strained and after 10 - 15 minutes I start feeling sick.


I think I ruled out the Marantz early on also because they won't be very good for my ambient light sports viewing.


For price, I wanted to stay below $6k or so if it was a projector that can last me a few years.

 

[Tryg]

Jvc Rs1

 

[coldmachine]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. /forum/post/14183737


Here is the problem... I like sitting close to the front of a theater, I like the immersive experience. So, under normal viewing my eyes are moving around the screen. Furthermore, I find myself feeling sick when I watch single DLP's, during watching my eyes feel slightly strained and after 10 - 15 minutes I start feeling sick.


I think I ruled out the Marantz early on also because they won't be very good for my ambient light sports viewing.


For price, I wanted to stay below $6k or so if it was a projector that can last me a few years.

I Believe Alan Gouger was, or is, running a C3Xe, Im sure he'll give his opinion if he sees this, or if you ask him.


The C3Xe is a different class of machine to the 777. If you can live with 720p as regards viewing distance, and the price is good, its a no brainer.


The C3X is a great machine and actually outperforms the C3X1080 in the lumens department.

 

[millerwill]



Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine /forum/post/14184339


... If you can live with 720p as regards viewing distance ....

This is a most relevant comment. Will Binegar above sits ~ 2.0 SW from his screen, so a 720p pj is perfectly fine; 1080 resolution would add nothing for him. But Michael W. says that he likes to sit close, probably 1.5 SW or less (I like it close too, and sit at ~ 1.3 SW), and 1080 resolution will make a real difference.

 

[Craig Peer]



Quote:
This is a most relevant comment. Will Binegar above sits ~ 2.0 SW from his screen, so a 720p pj is perfectly fine; 1080 resolution would add nothing for him. But Michael W. says that he likes to sit close, probably 1.5 SW or less (I like it close too, and sit at ~ 1.3 SW), and 1080 resolution will make a real difference.

Personally, a C3X 720p would not be my choice if I sat at 1.5 SW or less - the pixel structure would drive me nuts! It did when I saw one a couple of years ago.

 

[Citation4444]

I sit at 1.5-1.6 screen widths from my C3X 720 and it's just fine. Nobody, including me, has ever noticed SDE when watching 1.78 material. When I use my Panamorph to go 2.35, SDE is visible to me but never to others.


I would buy the C3Xe in a heartbeat.

 

[millerwill]

The above posts reinforce the idea that SDE and seating distance is an individual matter and something you need to verify for yourself. For viewing distances >/= 2.0 SW, I think most everybody would agree that 720 res is completely adequate, and for much less that 1.5 SW, 1080 is a big improvement. In between 1.5 and 2.0 seems to be where different people come to different conclusions, and I'm sure this also depends somewhat on the specific pj.

 

[Andrikos]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg /forum/post/14184114


Jvc Rs1

The TrygBot at work again...

Do you not tire spamming everybody's threads?

Just put "Buy RS1" in your sig and be done with it.


The OP already saw a perfectly setup RS1 and he'd rather buy something else.

Wrap your 2 remaining neurons around that...

 

[Alan Gouger]



Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine /forum/post/14184339


I Believe Alan Gouger was, or is, running a C3Xe, Im sure he'll give his opinion if he sees this, or if you ask him.


The C3Xe is a different class of machine to the 777. If you can live with 720p as regards viewing distance, and the price is good, its a no brainer.


The C3X is a great machine and actually outperforms the C3X1080 in the lumens department.

The 720 C3X is indeed a great performer. Better yet there are some other Sim2 options avail for limited time. PM sent

 

[hrd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger /forum/post/14191214


The 720 C3X is indeed a great performer. Better yet there are some other Sim2 options avail for limited time. PM sent

A special deal for forum members only, Alan?

 

[Jason Turk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. /forum/post/14181826


So, my combo HT and game room is nearing completion. I have been on this forum for the past 6 months reading up on everything and trying to figure out what will fit my needs. Room is 23' x 18', but half of it will have a pool table, so I have 18' length x 13' width for the HT part. A single row of seats will be at 14' back from the front wall, but screen will be about 1' in front of the wall, so a 12.5' - 13' viewing distance. I was planning on going with a 110" 16:9 screen but might go with a 2.35:1 screen around the same height as the 110" 16:9.


I used to have a DLP rear projection TV and NEVER saw a single rainbow on it. Figured I was immune. A month or two ago I went to a HT store and saw an Optoma and low and behold I saw a rainbow. Then I went to a Magnolia store and saw an Optoma HD80 and not only did I see rainbows here and there but I started to feel dizzy. Last week I went to another HT store that had a Runco RS1100 Ultra running in Cinescope. I was seeing rainbows like crazy all over the screen and I had to leave after 10 minutes because I started to feel nauseous. So much for the color-wheel based DLP's...


Prior to realizing I had rainbow problems I had the Planar 8150 on my short list of projectors to go for if I wanted a good projector to last me a few years. I had the BenQ W5000 on my short list as well as a projector I can get now and upgrade in 6-8 months when some better stuff comes out after CEDIA with losing very little money. I haven't been able to see either of these to figure out if the rainbows will bother me, but frankly, I am not so sure any color wheel based projector will work for me.


So, my alternatives are 3-chip systems. DILA, SXRD, LCD, or DLP. I already ruled out LCD because of dust blobs, etc... I saw the VW40 Sony recently and while it looked OK it just wasn't fantastic, seemed somewhat dim and flat next to the Optoma HD80 in the next room. I am also very sensitive to, and hate, motion blur.


I went to Noah's house and saw his RS1 and Don's InFocus 777. Noah's RS1 looked great, but I was really captivated by the brightness and punch of the 3-chip DLP. Since my room is multi-purpose, has 3 big windows and a french door, I am also worried that I will need lots of lumens for daytime use while friends are playing pool and we want to watch sports.


Everything points to 3-chip DLP to get what I need in the lumen department while having good contrast ratio and colors. Only issue is price. No way I can justify dumping $10k+ into a projector. But... I have found that I can get a pre-owned Sim2 C3X-e 720p projector for close to the price of the Planar 8150. This would be the "e" model with the built in CMS, 10-bit processing, etc...


Any opinions on which way to go? It seems kind of backwards to be buying a 720p product when 1080p is the norm, especially spending this amount of money on it. But, it seems 3-chip DLP is what I enjoy watching the most (from what little I have seen so far), will fit my requirements best with light output, and 720p from a money perspective is my only option with this particular technology.


-- Michael

Generally, most 3 chip DLP's...720 or not...will have some advantages. The key thing to make sure is that you aren't A) too close to them for the given screen size or B) make sure you don't mind some pixel structure. If those are not the case, then considering them is a no brainer as an option.