[Jones_Rush]

I'm sorry for this off topic, but maybe someone here knows what I should do.


I won a Radeon 9800 Pro at ebay (Bid #5125070231), on the 22/9/04. I paid the seller that same day an amount of $157 USD.


The card did not arrive in 2-3 days like it should have (sent using usps priority mail), and I kept emailing the seller, and he said that he will check it out in the post office, but didn't.


To make a long story short, today he emailed me back that the post office told him that the card definitely got lost in the mail, and since he had no insurance, it is gone.


He asked me what should he do.


What am I suppose to tell him ?. For all I know, maybe he didn't even sent the card in the first place. Is it my resonsibilty that the card will get to me ?. The seller has good rating, so maybe he tells the truth, and it is even mentioned in the bidding page that he does not offer insurance on the shipping.


Is this the end of story for me ?, have I just lost $157 ?. Is there a one sided law about what we should do in such situation ?.

 

[madpoet]

Hardly... did you pay by Paypal? Just file a claim with their satisfaction department and say you never got the item. If you paid by credit card, you can also dispute the charge on your card with the credit card company.

 

[Jones_Rush]

Yes, I paid using Paypal. But what will happen if they'll talk to him and he'll say to them that it got lost in the mail, and that it is written in the bidding page that he uses shipping with no insurance. Will I still get all my money back ?.


Is the seller the only one responsible for the item to get to me after I won and paid ?. If so, why is there a place on the bidding page where ebay asks the seller to mention if the shipping is insured or not, so the buyer will know ?. If the seller is the only one responsible for the package to arrive to the buyer, then the buyer shouldn't care at all if the seller ships it insured or not.

 

[Thrillho]

Dude, if paypal doesn't give your money back. Your credit card will. Talk to the seller first tell him you want a full refund, if he says no and pulls that shipped with no insurance i'm not liable crap, tell him that you'll get your money back wheather from him or paypal or your cc, and a refund would make it eaiser on himself. If he still won't give in talk to paypal, as a last resort dispute the charge on your CC but be aware paypal might close your acct if you do. I think $157 is worth not having a paypal acct how bout you?

 

[Jones_Rush]

$157 is definitely worth not having a paypal account under my name.


I don't think that I will get one cent from Paypal though. They are going to tell me I knew the shipping is not insured, and I decided to enjoy the low price and take the risk, so now I can't blame anyone.


My big mistake was that I didn't paid attention that he didn't offer insurance.

 

[Jeraden]

He owes you the money back, plain and simple. Having something lost in the mail is different than have it arrive to you in a damaged condition. If it came but was obviously damaged during the shipping process, then I can see how there might be some controversy. However a package that just doesn't arrive at all is not your problem and the burden falls 100% on his shoulders. The lack of insurance is not even a factor here.

 

[Widman]

I went through a similar problem earlier this year with an auction for an LCD monitor. In my case, the monitor arrived with a dead backlight. I worked with the seller to resolve the issue, but eventually he told me, "Sorry, you own it".


At that point I started the Paypal dispute process. I documented the events with them and received some very polite form letters back by email. I was told they would look into it but because of privacy concerns for the seller, I would not necessarily hear about any action they took against the seller.


I guess I could have pushed harder with Paypal, but instead I went to Citibank. They credited the full amount immediately and asked for my documentation of the events. Within three weeks I received a letter with instructions to send the monitor to Paypal.


Take what you want from my experience, but I would recommend skipping Paypal and going directly to your credit card company.


widman

 

[jeffleonard]

I agree 100% with Widman. Paypal probably won't do much, but your credit card company will.


I have dealt with some questionable charges/people directly with my credit card company, and haven't lost yet. Paypal seems to be a bit of a pacifist when it comes to disputes.

 

[Jones_Rush]

Thanks for all the answers guys!!!.

 

[setherd]

sounds like a scam to me, make sure you post negative feedback.

 

[Karyk]

I've only had limited experience with Ebay (bought a few items and tried to sell one but ran into a bad buyer and then cancelled my account). But outside the Ebay relm it is possible to have the risk of loss transfer to the buyer upon shipment. I'd presume that's possible with Ebay also, so you'd need to know the terms. If those were the terms, and he can prove it was shipped, then you'd be out the money.

 

[Jones_Rush]

Quote:

If those were the terms, and he can prove it was shipped, then you'd be out the money.

That's exactly my fear. Those are lousy terms though. Fair terms should at least obligate the seller to offer shipping insurance, if by default there is no insurance.


I emailed him the moment I won that I don't care how much the shipping will cost, I just want it to get to me on time (I needed it within 14 days), so why the heck should I care about $3 insurance ?. I even paid him more for shipping than he asked, since I wanted to make sure he will have enough money to send it in time. But I didn't specifically said "insure it", I simply didn't know he was going to send $157 worth product, with no insurance.

 

[Jones_Rush]

Update:

He offered to give a geforce fx 5700le from his system.

 

[Karyk]

BTW, I believe UPS automatically offers $100 of insurance. I don't think the USPS has the same policy, but it would be worth checking into.

 

[chrisBassOMatic]

it doesn't matter if he bothered to get insursance, the insurance is for HIM, not for YOU. He is responsible to get you the monitor, or your money back. If he had insurance, they would pay him, then he would pay you. Because he did not get insurance, he has to pay you out of his own pocket.


You are not out the money like karyk thinks, because as i said, the insurance is for the SENDER, not the RECEIVER.

 

[Salmoneous]

If those were the terms, and he can prove it was shipped, then you'd be out the money.


Uh, no. The guy contracted for an item. The item wasn't delivered. The buyer isn't responsible. Period. The seller is 100% responsible. That's the way the system works. Things like insurance, tracking numbers, required signatures, etc. They are seem to be for the benefit of the buyer, but they are really there or the benefit of the seller. If there seller were 100% legit in this case, it's still SOL for him since he was foolish enough to send the item the way he did.


That said, this smells highly of a scam. As far as I know, in the history of the US Postal service they have never once said that something definitively got lost in the mail.


Dude - you aren't responsible. Do everything in your power to get your money back. If the seller tries to lay a guilt trip on you or tries to get you to take some responsibility, don't. It's his fault - not to mention the fact that he's likely to be scamming you.

 

[chrisBassOMatic]

that video card is probably not as good, and not what you want, don't accept anything less than hat you want. don't be a "nice guy", fight for yourself, you are not being a jerk.


If you want to be nice , just tell him you are giong to call the credit card company today, and you want him to WIRE the money so you get it tomorrow. I f he agrees but you don't get it, then monday you are calling. if he refuses, put a bad rating up and call your CC company today. That is being nice and giving him a chance.


this kid sounds like an idiot. so what if he mailed it, he is still responsible that you get it. if the post office lost it, he can get restition from them but he still owes you.Think about it, would you accept that kind of answer from Crutchfield? no way, so you shouldn't accept it from this guy either.

 

[Karyk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Salmoneous Uh, no. The guy contracted for an item. The item wasn't delivered. The buyer isn't responsible. .

Believe me. It depends on the terms. Virtually anything can be changed by contractual terms, and this isn't something so critical that public policy would require it be only one way (although Ebay very well could have such a requirement as part of their terms).

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...9814090.htm?1c

 

[Griff1324]

I would recommend filing a claim with PayPal first! It may be a pain in the butt but you will cover your ass. Let me give you a run down of my story.


I won a furniture set on Ebay for $1800. Payed with PayPal using a credit card. The seller had a very high seller rating and had B&M stores in Tenn. She said it would take about 3 weeks for delivery, which is common for furniture stores. Three weeks go by and no furniture. After five weeks, many emails and excuses from her, and negitive feedback popping up left and right on Ebay about her, I figured that she wasn't shipping the furniture. I contact PayPal and I am told that a claim must be made within 30 days and since the 30 day limit expired they cannot do anything (This is pretty sh**ty since it was going to take 21 days before the furniture was even able to be shipped). I tell the PayPal customer service rep. that I was going to contact my credit card company and dispute the charge then. She then replied with the comment, "That is fine, but we [PayPal] then have the right to go into your account and withdrawl the money that was credited to you." I then proceeded to hang up and call my credit card company to dispute the charges.


In your PayPal TOS, you are required to contact PayPal FIRST to file a claim to dispute a charge. In the TOS that you agree to, PayPal is allowed to go into your account (even the checking account that is tied to your PayPal account) and withdrawl any returned funds from your credit card. This covers PayPal's butt. For example, you dispute a charge and get credit back from you credit card company for $200. Your credit card company then goes after PayPal to get "their" $200 that they just credited you. Now, PayPal is out $200. However, they have the right to go into your account and recover the funds that they lost. So once again, you are out $200.


About a week after I received my $1800 credit back from my credit card company (only took 2 days because I kept all transaction information and emails between the two of us), I received a nasty letter from PayPal. The letter stated that I violated their TOS because I didn't file a dispute through them (I tried this but my 30 day limit was up, remember!). It also stated that they retain the right to freeze or close my account if I continue to dispute charges with my credit card company for charge backs.


While PayPal did not close my account, nor did they attempt to recover the $1800 from me, it is pretty scary that they do have the right to do this.


Based on my experience, dispute it with PayPal first. If that doesn't get you anywhere, then dispute it with your credit card company. You should have 60 days from the transaction date to dispute the charge with your credit card company.


I continue to use PayPal because it is convienent. However, I plan on opening a free checking account somewhere and putting the min. amount of funds into the account. I will then tie that account with PayPal. That way if they attempt to recover any lost funds from me due to a charge back, there will be little money in the account recover. This would prevent them PayPal from having access to your main checking account where you keep all of your money.


On a side note, PayPal is a "third party" in your online transactions. You cannot dispute a charge with some credit card companies if a third party is involved. I am pretty certain that Discover and AMEX will not issue a charge back if PayPal was used. However, Mastercard and VISA will "back-up" your purchases through PayPal.


Sorry for the long post but I am sure a lot of you will find it helpfull. I wish I had known this information long ago. I recommend checking out Paypaysucks.com for more horror stories and information that you may not know regarding the use of PayPal.


later,


Chris

 

[Karyk]

This is a better link on risk of loss. You may need to select your state and local area (you can use Washington and King county if you like since I know that works).

http://cobrands.business.findlaw.com...BLGCHP9_e.html