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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I calibrated my tv using DVE and now when I play games on my 360 I still have to adjust brightness on the game itself. (using little test boxes on games like modern warfare 2) How? My tv is calibrated right?


I played DVE on the xbox 360 with HDMI color space at ycbcr709 and reference levels expanded. I play games the same way.
 

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your TV is probably fine, i have seen a significant difference between two blu ray players, so seeing a difference between a disc player and a 360 seems pretty plausible.


This is one of the reasons that some TV's give you separate user settings from the different inputs.


-Samsung

-LG


I am sure there are more, but those are the ones that come to mind.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by djpj /forum/post/18229002


I calibrated my tv using DVE and now when I play games on my 360 I still have to adjust brightness on the game itself. (using little test boxes on games like modern warfare 2) How? My tv is calibrated right?


I played DVE on the xbox 360 with HDMI color space at ycbcr709 and reference levels expanded. I play games the same way.

Games that are not THX certified are not required to follow industry standards that DVD and BD movies must. This is also the case with TV programming (many other reasons why TV programming is not reference material also exist). If you need to use the slider in games, by all means use it. If you find the default position to be correct on the slider, then simply stick with that. It will vary from game to game and so you just need to be sure the blacks are not crushed nor washed out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U /forum/post/18229435


Games that are not THX certified are not required to follow industry standards that DVD and BD movies must. This is also the case with TV programming (many other reasons why TV programming is not reference material also exist). If you need to use the slider in games, by all means use it. If you find the default position to be correct on the slider, then simply stick with that. It will vary from game to game and so you just need to be sure the blacks are not crushed nor washed out.

So what you're saying is that every DVD that is not THX certified does not have the standards? So basically, when I watch a movie which is not THX certified the calibration would be of almost no use?
 

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No. The video standards have been in place (and been followed) far longer than THX has. THX just makes sure they follow the standards before they add their stamp of approval.

My point is that there is plenty of accurate material out there that is not THX certified, because good material has been following the standards for a long time. There is also some poorly produced or poorly duplicated material. Think of a typical low budget commercial for a local used car lot, or some video games.

But supposedly there is no material with the THX approval that does not obey the standards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Originally Posted by Chad B /forum/post/18233474


No. The video standards have been in place (and been followed) far longer than THX has. THX just makes sure they follow the standards before they add their stamp of approval.

My point is that there is plenty of accurate material out there that is not THX certified, because good material has been following the standards for a long time. There is also some poorly produced or poorly duplicated material. Think of a typical low budget commercial for a local used car lot, or some video games.

But supposedly there is no material with the THX approval that does not obey the standards.

So video games never use the standard? So the conclusion is... video games are displayed at its best once you just adjust the brightness/contrast on the game itself and use a calibrated tv?


OR can you say that calibration is not worth anything when playing games?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B /forum/post/18233474


No. The video standards have been in place (and been followed) far longer than THX has. THX just makes sure they follow the standards before they add their stamp of approval.

My point is that there is plenty of accurate material out there that is not THX certified, because good material has been following the standards for a long time. There is also some poorly produced or poorly duplicated material. Think of a typical low budget commercial for a local used car lot, or some video games.

But supposedly there is no material with the THX approval that does not obey the standards.

Are you referring to video games, movies, or TV programming?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by djpj /forum/post/18233709


So video games never use the standard? So the conclusion is... video games are displayed at its best once you just adjust the brightness/contrast on the game itself and use a calibrated tv?


OR can you say that calibration is not worth anything when playing games?

The PC industry has plenty of standards for content. Infact sRGB includes a gamma curve and viewing enviroment conditions, were HDTV does not.


The issue is really two parts though,

1) Alot of people may not know, the software industry isn't as intune with video calibration as the video industry as a whole.


2) 3D games don't just store colors and reproduce them, they simulate the entire lighting enviroment. This lighting happens in linear format and then they need to reapply the gamma compression so that it's displayed correctly on your display. That's alot to go wrong.


There was a developer from I think ravensoft on here a while ago talking about how they were trying to step up their color accuracy. Also someone posted a pdf of a presentation Gabe Newell from valve did about handling the lighting and gamma and how they had to compensate because of differences in the xbox, ps3 and PC.


So games are basically like cable, the best you can do is calibrate to the standard, and the Olympics/HBO/Prime time TV will look right and the local car commercial, the 12 year old sitcom and the random low level cable show will look wrong.
 

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Also look at Doom3 where they made a very concious choise to make the levels very dark.


Gamers didn't agree and lots turned the brightness and ingame gamma up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/18234451


The PC industry has plenty of standards for content. Infact sRGB includes a gamma curve and viewing enviroment conditions, were HDTV does not.


The issue is really two parts though,

1) Alot of people may not know, the software industry isn't as intune with video calibration as the video industry as a whole.


2) 3D games don't just store colors and reproduce them, they simulate the entire lighting enviroment. This lighting happens in linear format and then they need to reapply the gamma compression so that it's displayed correctly on your display. That's alot to go wrong.


There was a developer from I think ravensoft on here a while ago talking about how they were trying to step up their color accuracy. Also someone posted a pdf of a presentation Gabe Newell from valve did about handling the lighting and gamma and how they had to compensate because of differences in the xbox, ps3 and PC.


So games are basically like cable, the best you can do is calibrate to the standard, and the Olympics/HBO/Prime time TV will look right and the local car commercial, the 12 year old sitcom and the random low level cable show will look wrong.

Ok thanks for the help,
 

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Yea MW2 is in RGB which has a wider parameter than ycbcr. So yes the way you have it set, and not knowing if ur tv can pass super black you will have to adjust it. Now, to the question of is your tv calibrated right... no its not. Those disks can only do a tiny bit of adjustment. There is no real calibration without involving good equipment. The i1 d2 is okay, but I would recommend something better if you want it to be balanced.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/18234575


Also look at Doom3 where they made a very concious choise to make the levels very dark.

Gamers didn't agree and lots turned the brightness and ingame gamma up.

This cannot be emphasized enough when talking about calibration and gaming. There is what's accurate, and then there is what you want to play. These are not necessarily the same, and gamers used to "seeing in the dark" generally won't like it when the brightness and gamma are set correctly.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/18234451


The PC industry has plenty of standards for content. Infact sRGB includes a gamma curve and viewing enviroment conditions, were [where?] HDTV does not.

There are definite recommendations for both gamma and viewing conditions for HDTV in broadcast and program production: see-EBU Tech 3320 'User Requirements for Video Monitors in Television Production;' Rec. ITU-R BT.500 'Methodology for the Subjective Assessment of the Quality of Television Pictures;' Rec. ITU-R BT.710-4 'Subjective Assessment Methods for Image Quality in High-Definition Television;' for some examples.


While imaging industry standards, engineering guidelines, and recommended practices are widely known, there are persistent lapses of understanding and disciplined implementation in program production communities. This can be due to many factors. Dominant ones are budgetary pressures and human frailties. THX, Ltd. offers services as a consultant and quality control supervisor for companies who lack their expertise internally. They are not perfect, nor are the companies who hire them. However, their involvement signifies a serious focus on standards and excellence. The ISF is a similar case.


My direct exposure to various levels of the digital motion graphics and electronic games community has revealed a more widespread failure to adhere to industry best practices in maintaining quality control and uniformity. These are newer entities compared to the television and film communities. Those older industries have a much better foundation in a standards based approach to quality control. Each generation of technicians must be educated to value image fidelity, program consistency, and artistic integrity. They also must be taught to value attention to detail, a passion for excellence, and disciplined adherence to industry standards and recommended practices. Failure in this process results in the kind of confusion and frustration expressed in this thread and throughout this forum.


Best regards and beautiful pictures,

G. Alan Brown, President

CinemaQuest, Inc.

A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate


"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
 
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