[joshmv]

Hey everybody, I just got my 46hx83 today and have a couple impressions and questions. First of all we'll start with the impressions.


My first thing I got to watch was just regular cable on stretch mode which is quite good, I'm really impressed with the picture quality, it's not awesome but I thought it would be ALOT worse. Second I watched Finding Nemo on DVD and it looked decent mostly because the colors were so good but the actual quality was not great, there was obvious pixelation and things that were in the distance were almost unrecognizable, my friends were really impressed but I know it can do much better. One last thing on this part, I have not seen any white lines on my TV but I also haven't watched a hockey game but so far I'm just glad it's not sticking out at all.


Now for the questions, First of all for the DVD problem, it is hooked up with nice monster component cables but the DVD player is not progressive scan (no bashes please, it's coming) but I didn't know if that should make a huge difference. If it's not that could it just be that it is not broken in yet or it's not calibrated very well (DVE is coming). I didn't know if I can start calibrating right away or not because one tip sight said wait like a week before you do the convergence test. I think that's my only problem with the TV, other than that it is awesome.


Thank for all your help,

Josh

 

[joshmv]

anybody?

 

[mzauher]

I have the 46h83, and I am not happy with the quality either. I went out and bought the Samsung DVI out dvd player and its still not the quality I was expecting.. I have only had the TV for about 2 days, so I am not going to hold any preconcieved notion about what it should or shouldnt look like. I live in the San Diego area and unfortunatly have not had any responce to any of the ISF calibration people ive contacted so I do not know how I am going to get it calibrated.


I sit about 7 feet away, I am wondering if this is the problem, because its on a bush stand so my eye level is a smidge under the middle of the Set picture. I notice interesting enough that if I move farther back it looks more clear.


I have my Contrast to 65, Brightness to 60, color to 25, sharpness to 50. I am on Movie Setting, Warm Color, 1080i with Film Picture Type using the "Full" screen size setting.


Basically everything looks like its VCD quality, and im using nice cables so I also dont get it because I know people with this set that are uncalibrated and it looks very clean compared to mine. The picture is blotchy, like a bad digital feed.


But MAN what a sound system, no external speakers hooked up, and thats fine because in my small living room in my apartment it fills it enough that I cant turn it up very loud anyways with out blowing the rest of the complex out.


I did notice another odd thing, that when I hook my DVR unit (Tivo cable box from Cox.net) through Svideo, the picture is COMPLETE disaster, really bad quality, but if I hook it up via the Coax, its a lot cleaner..


Sorry I couldnt give you more imput but hopefully my post lets you know your not alone. Most people are happy with the picture that come over, but I, like you expect much more..

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings


If the local ISF people won't talk to you, then you should try one of the touring guys ...


Gregg Loewen, David Abrams, Eliab, Cheezmo, etc ...


How much difference you will see from the addition of a progressive scan unit is akin to asking us how long a piece of string is.


It depends on the unit you buy ... since a $50 progressive scan unit is not exactly the same as a $1000 unit. It also depends on the quality of the current player ...


As well as your own value system of what is big and what is not. We cannot crawl into your head for that one.


Generally speaking ... the difference is small, but noticable if you know what to look for. Something like a procalibration will give you a much more noticable difference ... but of course it tends to cost more too.


Regards

 

[Paul Clancy]

Mzauher ...get that contrast down and you'll see the picture smooth out and become more detailed.

 

[mzauher]

Paul,


thank you I will try that when I get home from work. I also ordered Avia after reading through some of the things on this site. Should I only use it after a certain amount of time of having the set? I have only had it for 2-3 days now.


I finally got a responce from Greg Loewen from lionav.com, he is coming down to the San Diego area in Apr/May which if I have the 800 or so to get a full calibration done including the HDTV and Lining I am going to do that also.


Does anyone have a rule of thumb in concerns to "Color, Sharpness, Brightness and contrast" ? I realize its going to be different from Set to Set but on my Monitor (Im a computer geek not AV geek =( ) If I set my contrast to 100, and bring my brightness up slowly I get a better picture, where on the TV I know I want to keep both lower.


EDIT: Wanted to thank Gregg, out of the 8 people I contacted for ISF information he is the only one who got back to me, and he got back to me with in 4 hours of my original email, the others are going on 3 days. Wonder if he would let me trade Calibration for staying at my apartment in the spare bedroom with food while he is down south /laugh.

 

[joshmv]

anybody have a response for mzauher? I was kind of wondering the same things.


Josh

 

[Kevin Golding]

You want to keep Contrast under 50 to maximize the life of your CRTs. The settings will vary from set to set (and room - ambient lighting, etc.), but my settings for DVDs are:


Contrast 41

Brightness 42

Color 47

Tint -10

Sharpness 32


YMMV.

 

[Paul Clancy]

At minimum get a thx dvd like monsters inc or starwars2 and use the thx video setup portion to set contrast and brightness. This will get you in the ballpark. Avia and DVE have more advanced material. Greg is one of the highest regarded isf guys so you're doing VERY well with a cal from him ....well worth the $$. Your sharpness on the tosh should be in the 25-35 range to reduce noise and ringing. 7ft viewing distance should be fine for a set that size. You will see the flaws in the source so only judge the set with high quality dvd or hd material.

 

[mzauher]

Thank you,


With the information in this post my overall PQ has improved both on DVD and Standard Cable. I have one more question, I am using the default DVI cable given to you with the Samsung DVI DVD player, my question is, that although I know the quality would be better with a cable from like Monster Cable, on a CRT RPTV will the difference be enough to warrent the 60ish+ dollars that cable costs, or would the difference only be really noticable with a DLP/LCD etc etc etc.


Also, With that samsung, If I use DVI I am select 1080i, obviously in theory that should look better then using Component with progressive scan enabled, but on my TV the 46H83 is that still true? The reason I ask is that I read here the picture quality between dvi / component on a CRT is really not noticable, and I am not sure if the 1080i is an upconversion or a native resloution.. if that makes sense?


EDIT: And btw I ordered Avia today, so hopefully I can get it going and save enough for when gregg hits SD to pay for a total calibration.

 

[Randi]

I've got the 46HX83 as well, but alas no copy of Finding Nemo


When we were looking for sets most of the stores had the ubiquitous Nemo playing, and I observed pixelation on every on every set they had. I presume this is due to the common feed they were using. Stores like to use cartoons or sports shows like football, as they consist of a small number of actual colors. Some lower quality (not necessarily lower priced) plasma displays have a limited color palette, which will be obvious if a normal cinematic scene is being shown. Some will take in a HD signal and then down grade it for the number of pixels actual in the display. Loss of detail isn't obvious when you're looking at a cartoon image. For this reason, I would hesitate to use a cartoon as a standard for performance.


I've recently picked up the Moto 5100 from Comcast, and I have to say some of the documentaries on INHD are stunning. The movies look good too, but I think that some of these are just DVD quality and not true HD.


I've found that the Comcast box runs brighter than the tuner in the Toshiba, so I've found that the image is better when turned down. I've been running with the automatic contrast (AVS), which appears lower than 50 when compared. I set brightness at 45 and color at 40. The resulting picture is well balanced and works well in the living room, which in this case is north facing with fairly low ambient lighting. YMMV


I keep the set in 3:2 pull-down mode all the time, as it should default to video mode when the cadence is off. In all, I can't say that I've seen pixelation problems as you've described. If you can't get your set adjusted to a satisfactory PQ, you may need to exchange it.


Best of luck

 

[Paul Clancy]

mzhauer,

Skip the monstor cable...not worth it. The samsung is doing the scaling when outputting 1080i. The native resolution of dvd is 480i so anything above that is upconverted/scaled. Your choice with your setup is do you want the sammy to scale or the tosh or both. Theory says the best picture would be the samsung outputting 1080i via dvi but you'll need to experiment to find the best combination with your player/tv setup.

 

[mzauher]

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Clancy mzhauer, Skip the monstor cable...not worth it. The samsung is doing the scaling when outputting 1080i. The native resolution of dvd is 480i so anything above that is upconverted/scaled. Your choice with your setup is do you want the sammy to scale or the tosh or both. Theory says the best picture would be the samsung outputting 1080i via dvi but you'll need to experiment to find the best combination with your player/tv setup.

Thank you Paul, Ill go home after work today and play with it to see which displays the better picture.

 

[nakenergy]

mzhauer,


I would like to know as to what you see.

with the Sammy HD 931. I have the Tosh 51 H83 with DVI and am eager to find out.


Please update with your results.

 

[mzauher]

Well,


I hooked up the Component cables and put on progressive scan, I can say that the colors look more defined, the black levels dont drown out the rest of the picture, and its a tiny bit fuzzier then with the DVI.


The DVI on the other hand is a tiny bit clearer (I think I am expecting to much from DVD's... I just didnt think there would be a hint of ANY noise using this TV with a dvd player like the sammy 931) but with DVI, I am having problems finding that sweet spot where the darks arnt too dark and the bright isnt too bright. I dont know I think it might just be me expecting a tons more out of a 1700 RPTV then I should because I have never had one and im so used to a 27 inch Sony.


I decided to stay with the DVI output, Avia should be at my doorstep tomorrow, and I just wont watch the TV until it gets here and I can run through the test patterns. I honestly am a bit bumbed out overall because I expected so much more..


Hopefully I just am a tard and do not have the settings correct.


Two last questions:


#1 Burn in issue: Yes I know its a problem, but I do not understand one thing.. does the burn in come strictly from light source, or will the "black lines" from watching a dvd cause the same thing? Reason I ask is the Sammy 931 has a S.FIT function that stretches the screen (Which I cant do in 1080i with the toshiba) but the picture quality is a bit lower because of it. I can live with the PQ if the burn in will occur with those black lines.


#2 I know its different from set to set, but When I hear you guys say Turn down the brightness / contrast to help with Burn in / PQ, I think from 100 bieng too high, 50 is still to high, and It should be at 30ish for both, is this a "Safe" assumption, or would 50ish level - like a 70ish level be acceptable?


Thanks all for the help and I hope I am just bieng a turd and avia is going to magically make my set more clear / less drowned out with black because it will do test patterns the SW episode2 doesnt / wont do.

 

[Paul Clancy]

Brightness is not the burn in culprit...contrast is. I found high brightness settings ~60-70 were somewhat normal on last years Tosh to overcome black crush(add shadow detail).

 

[mzauher]

Paul,


Great that will help out a bunch then because I had my contrast and brightness down to 37-42ish on my 46H83 and I swear it was like watching half my screen not showing up =).


Also will burn in happen if the full complete picture isnt "stretched" or am I relativly safe watching a DVD with the little black lines at the top and bottom? I dont mind Screen Fitting it, as it just makes thing a tiny bit more out of focus but over all I would rather have a somewhat less perfect picture, and a tv that doesnt have perma black lines =)

 

[WaltA]

Quote:

Originally posted by joshmv If it's not that could it just be that it is not broken in yet or it's not calibrated very well (DVE is coming). I didn't know if I can start calibrating right away or not because one tip sight said wait like a week before you do the convergence test. I think that's my only problem with the TV, other than that it is awesome.

My 46HX83 was quite out of convergence. Personally, I would not wait. I would go the full 56-point convergence from Service Mode. At worse, you might need to do it again in a few weeks.

 

[WaltA]

Quote:

Originally posted by mzauher But MAN what a sound system, no external speakers hooked up, and thats fine because in my small living room in my apartment it fills it enough that I cant turn it up very loud anyways with out blowing the rest of the complex out.

I have to agree with that. Matter of fact, I am using the set's "Center Channel Input" feature to replace my actual center speaker.


I have read all over the 'net that one should never do this because the resulting sound quality is so very poor. Well, that wasn't my findings. The sound quality is actually better! I am quite pleased with using it setup this way.

 

[Paul Clancy]

I always watch watch 2.35:1 material with the bars and wouldn't consider zooming and losing both material on the side and picture quality. You bought the set to enjoy dvd so enjoy it in its origonal aspect. With contrast reigned in and a balance of material with and without bars you aren't at risk.