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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

I need the help of somebody that thoroughly knows crossovers, and driver matching to converse with.

If anyone is up for a challenge I could possibly use some help/insight!

 

Thanks!
 

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I'm not your XO guy, but there are guys who post here who are.


Can you state your problem/question? Maybe that will get your conversation jump started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Problem A)

Infinity Prelude MTS.

Looking at replacing drivers with quality (but different) replacements, for years and years of enjoyment.

I managed to put my front towers back together and they sound amazing.... but I have 4 other cabinets, and not enough good drivers to fill them.

 

I have a CNC router and can make new baffles. I think I can squeeze the Dayton reference 6"s and 4"s in the cabinets.

Also considering Peerless HDS, those woofers look almost identical and there's a 5.25", but no 3.5"

 

They are both 8ohm drivers... The preludes are showing 4 ohms for the mid/tweet and 5 ohms for the mid basses.

I'm also not sure about sensitivity matching the drivers, or how the impedance affects the crossover.

I'm in the air on whether to change the tweeter or not. Can if necessary.

 

Problem B)

4x pairs of Pioneer DSS-9 (or E10)

I'm looking to combine these into a gargantuan BA stereo pair. Factory crossovers have separate for mid/high and bass.

Factory, they aren't bi wire-able, but the mid/high XO feeds the bass XO. I think that should be easy enough to remedy.

Impedance shouldn't really be a big issue, because if I series/parallel these drivers, the impedance should end up at the same.

HOWEVER.... 4x the drivers. I need to beef the crossovers up so I don't fry those, I think?

They are only rated at like 85w RMS from the factory. I know they will take a little more, but.....

 

My amps (DBX BX-3's) have more than enough power to blow a pair or two. The drivers are nearly unobtanium gems.

I don't want to try this and have crossover failure leading to driver failure.... I do crank up the music!
 

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Ok, what you are suggesting is that you want to use your Infinity cabinets with different drivers, and possibly a new tweeter. The problem is that the crossover would need to be completely redesigned, as the stock crossover is going to be completely useless after upgrading the drivers. On top of that, you would probably have to design a new cabinet for the woofers as the current cabinet may or may not be suitable for those woofers, and it is more than likely not suitable for them.


This is pretty much going to be a totally new speaker due to the fact that not only will the crossover need to be a complete one-off redesign, but, if you want to do it right with new drivers, they would also need a new enclosure. The only way to know about the enclosure is to model the current, stock enclosure with these new woofers in a modeling program , such as winISD or hornsREP. If these cabinets are ported, I would bet that they would not be suitable for these different woofers.


So as you can see, this is going to be quite the battle getting everything to play nice . You can't just go connecting new drivers to the stock cabinet. & crossover and expect to only need minor cabinet & crossover mods. It just doesn't work like that. With that being said, my recommendation would be to sell the Infinity speakers and these new drivers and build an existing design . The Statements would be a much better option than this, even if you could get the necessary crossover and cabinet designed. Another option is a Seos-based build. If you really want to do a one off custom speaker with those drivers, you would need to find someone to model and design the proper enclosure, and someone to measure and design the crossover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Cabinets are sealed, and small driver.

I'm relatively comfortable in that other drivers of similar size would likely be able to work very well in these amazing cabinets.

The cabinets are staying. Back to my original message, I was looking for a crossover whiz?

I would think the crossovers can likely be mofied.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiftyone50  /t/1522178/i-need-a-crossover-wizard-please-help#post_24488322


Cabinets are sealed, and small driver.

I'm relatively comfortable in that other drivers of similar size would likely be able to work very well in these amazing cabinets.

The cabinets are staying. Back to my original message, I was looking for a crossover whiz?

I would think the crossovers can likely be mofied.

Trust me when I say that you will need a completely new crossover if you are changing out all of the drivers. From what I understood by your OP, you are planning to replace all of the drivers with the exception of the tweeter? If you want to know if this cabinet will work, then you need to model the cabinet & woofers in a modeling program such as winISD or HornsREP. I highly doubt that you are actually going to be able to use those cabinets, but you won't know for sure until you model them.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiftyone50  /t/1522178/i-need-a-crossover-wizard-please-help#post_24488322


I'm relatively comfortable in that other drivers of similar size would likely be able to work very well in these amazing cabinets.
Possibly, but there are some two dozen factors involved in matching drivers to enclosures, the driver size being only one. Spend a few hours, if not days, looking about here and you'll get an idea of how complicated this seemingly easy chore really is:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?219617-The-Speaker-Building-Bible
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007  /t/1522178/i-need-a-crossover-wizard-please-help#post_24488697



Trust me when I say that you will need a completely new crossover if you are changing out all of the drivers. From what I understood by your OP, you are planning to replace all of the drivers with the exception of the tweeter? If you want to know if this cabinet will work, then you need to model the cabinet & woofers in a modeling program such as winISD or HornsREP. I highly doubt that you are actually going to be able to use those cabinets, but you won't know for sure until you model them.
 

Tweeters are good, and clearance gets a little tight. 

I'm trying what I can to get original parts in working shape to put what I can back together, but not very hopeful I'll find all of what I need, to get them all back together.

I came into some blown drivers and have dismantling them figured out, considered trying to get all the chips cleaned out of the voice coil gap, and put ferrofluid in the gap to coat the magnet/lube the coil a little bit to possibly try to counteract the magnet coating breaking down further and the neo oxidizing more.

The spiders are a pain to deal with though, very thin. Several of them have separated from the voice coils on the mid-basses.

 

The cabinets are staying. I will find drivers that will work one way or another.

They are really fantastic cabinets, being that they're sealed, and rather large, I'm sure they have enough airspace for most drivers in the similar size to fit the narrow baffle to work ok.

If the whole crossover needs scrapped to go to new ones then that's what will happen.

 

FWIW, from the factory the crossover points on the MTS is: midbass 80-300Hz, midrange 300-2khz, tweet 2khz+            I can schematic these out if it might help.

I would think the mid-bass and midranges could have played a little higher, but know infinity put some homework into these speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Broke down and ordered some stuff.

After much deliberation, I believe these drivers may fit the existing baffles of the columns, and even the midrange cups.

 

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-nd140-4-5-1-4-aluminum-cone-midbass-driver-4-ohm--290-216

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-nd90-4-3-1-2-aluminum-cone-full-range-driver-4-ohm--290-208

 

I'm not super keen on using neo magnet drivers again, especially since reading some of these also have the same type of magnet coating issue... but, sigh.

Will see how quality they seem to be and sound, and how they fit.

If they're pretty decent, I'll probably order more to complete my rear columns.

 

I'm one good midrange shy of having 5 channels w/factory infinity drivers at this point. Someone suggested a midrange replacement for me I may try on this one pair.

 

After that will get into crossover tinkering. 
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Well, tried them out in one tower column.

The infinity drivers sound a fair bit more "natural" than the daytons side by side, both free air full range, and in cab using the infinity crossover as-is.

That being said, the dayton drivers sound pretty darn good too. Keep in mind, these are initial impressions, brand new drivers, not high volume listening, and not broken in yet.
 
I ended up trying these drivers because I thought they might easily be made to work with the factory baffles.
The end result there, is the stamped frame can be trimmed with good snips (wiss or such). the 5.25" will fit the baffle opening very tight and nicely.
The 3.5" midrange is on the smaller side. It's got extra space around it - I think I'm going to order the 4" to try and see how it fits.

 

They don't really have any annoying coloration that I can hear. They have substantially more well pronounced bass in the mid-basses than the infinity drivers.

They sound quite a bit fuller in the lower end with the switch set to full range and not high pass.

They don't have as tight of a "hit" to bass drum notes, but it's not any extreme difference, just a little less "real" drum sounding.

They also match well to the infinity factory tweeter. For giggles, I put a Pioneer PT-R beryllium ribbon tweeter in the loop - this combo sounded fantastic!

unfortunately, these cabs are too small to put those ribbons in. They sound much better than the infinity tweeter. (which I really don't have a problem with, but when A/B'd, it was the loser)

 

I'm considering trying a vifa ring radiator tweeter next time  I order, along with the 4" version of that neo woofer.

 

I would have liked to had stamped frame woofers, and maybe not neo magnets.... but the stamped frame allows these to be easily modified to fit the factory infinity baffle opening, and the drivers are readily available. Right at $150 for all 5 woofer drivers in one tower - Infinity originals are pretty unobtanium, and the midranges alone sell for more than that these days.

I am still considering trying HiVi or dayton reference drivers in another cabinet, but I think these are pretty close as far as fitting the factory cast aluminum baffle, without me having to make new.

 

I would definitely recommend this cheap and relatively easy swap for anyone who has/loves their preludes but has several bad drivers (which like almost all of them will  have some scratching)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ended up using infinity driver frames to mount the dayton ND series speakers into the baffle.

Not the most graceful solution, but I think it'll work.
Cut the magnets off of toast infinity drivers, cut the frame around the surround on the ND drivers, and sealed the mids to the infinity mid frame, and the woofers have the infinity woofer frame sans magnet, functioning as a clamp ring for the 5.25"s
 

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My amps (DBX BX-3's) have more than enough power to blow a pair or two. The drivers are nearly unobtanium gems.
I don't want to try this and have crossover failure leading to driver failure.... I do crank up the music!
Anyone with similar concerns should have a few of these around.

No tweeter should leave home without one. Midranges, start with these and then move up to bigger ones if they get too busy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Anyone with similar concerns should have a few of these around.

No tweeter should leave home without one. Midranges, start with these and then move up to bigger ones if they get too busy.
The factory networks on those have mid and tweeter protection. I am going to be combining 4 pairs of these speakers, at first, I'll just series/parallel them and run off a stock network at the same impedance.... and just not over feed them. Do want to look at making these bi (maybe even tri)-ampable, and beefing up the crossovers so if I feed them 400W or so, the xovers don't go up in smoke.
 
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