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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys!


I am in search of some opinions, so let me know what you think of my planned home theater. I have done hours of research looking through these forums and I think I have pieced together a decent combination, but I am new to the world of home audio and some of the brands. Also, I have been looking at a HTIB and I found the Onkyo HT-S7100 7.1 Channel Receiver and Speaker Package.


The T.V. will be placed over the fireplace and the L AND R will ether be on poles next to the fireplace or in between the windows about 1' off the wall (L) and where the wall crease is on the right (R) angled down.


Budget: $1,500

Room dimensions: Open floor plan – 1000 sq. foot. The viewing area is L-25xW-16xH-18. It’s easier to just check out the pictures at the end of the post.

Listening habit- 80% HT / 20%M

Receiver – Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K @ 500.00

Info - reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers/pioneer-vsx-1019ah-k/4507-6466_7-33496205.html?tag=mncol;psum

Speakers

L/R Surrounds -ERD-1 Di/bi pole surround @ 300.00 – I need the look of these speakers.

Info – emotiva.com/erd1.shtm


• One 5.25" Woofers, two 25mm tweeters

• Sensitivity: 89db (2.83volts @ 1 Meter)

• Recommended amplifier power: 50-200 Watts RMS

• Frequency response: 80-20Khz +/-2db

• Ohms : 4 ?


• Four possible switch positions:


1. Left/Right Bipole

2. Left Dipole

3. Right Dipole

4. Left/Right Inverted Dipole


• 4.25" deep, 13" wide, 9.5" tall

• 29.5 lbs. pair (boxed) - 11 pounds each, unboxed

Front and centers –

Definitive Technology - ProCenter 1000 and the ProMonitor 800's.

ProCenter 1000 Specs:

Dimensions | Metric :14-3/4" W x 5" D x 5" H | 37.5 x 12.7 x 12.7 cm

Driver Complement :One 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter; Two 4-1/2" BDSS upper bass/midrange drivers; Two 4-1/2" pressure coupled bass radiators

Frequency Response :47 Hz – 30 kHz

Impedance :Compatible with 8 Ohms outputs

Sensitivity :90 dB

Recommended Associated Amplifier Power :10 – 200 watts

A/V Receiver Crossover Setting :80 Hz

Inputs :One pair of 5 way binding posts

Available Finishes :Gloss Black; Gloss White

Accessories :Leveler Foot; Two ¼ 20 insert cover plugs

Mounting Options :On Shelf with included leveling foot; Equipped with two ¼ 20 sized threads to accommodate on wall mounting with two ProMount 80 (available separately)

Packaging :One to a carton

Weight | Metric :6 lbs | 2.7 kg

Warranty :5 Years

ProMonitor 800 :Specifications


Dimensions | Metric :4-3/4" W x 5" D x 8-3/8" H | 12.1 x 12.7 x 23.8 cm

Driver Complement :One 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter; One 4-1/2" BDSS bass/midrange drivers; One 4-1/2" pressure coupled bass radiator

Frequency Response :57 Hz – 30 kHz

Impedance :Compatible with 8 Ohms outputs

Sensitivity :89 dB

Recommended Associated Amplifier Power :10 – 150 watts

A/V Receiver Crossover Setting :100 Hz

Inputs :One pair of 5 way binding posts

Available Finishes :Gloss Black; Gloss White

Included Accessories :Tripod Base; Two ¼ 20 insert cover plugs

Mounting Options :Vertically: On Shelf with included tripod base; Equipped with rear ¼ 20 sized thread to accommodate on wall/on ceiling mounting with aftermarket mount(available separately); Equipped with bottom ¼ 20 sized thread to accommodate ProStand 600/800 stand mounting (ProStand 600/800 available separately); Equipped with keyhole mounting slot for flush mounting

Packaging :One to a carton

Weight | Metric :4 lbs | 1.8 kg

Warranty :5 Years


Sub -

Elemental Designs: A2 - 300 Subwoofer @ $350.00
edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407


Driver Size -12"

Driver Quantity-1

Driver Excursion-15.1mm

Total Driver Linear Displacement-1645.92cm³

Room Tuning -20Hz

Frequency Response (+/-3dB)-18-100Hz

Amplifier RMS Power-200W

Cabinet Type-Vented

Shipping Weight-71 lbs

Internal Size-2.45ft³

External Size-3.70ft³

Width-18.00"

Height-18.00"

Depth-21.5"

Vent Size -4"

Amplifier Voltage-115V

Included Crossover-Yes

Crossover Frequencies-40-160Hz

Phase Switch-Yes

Line Level Input-Yes

RCA Level Input-Yes

Level Control





 

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you have a very difficult room to work with, the "open look" everyone really likes today makes acoustics a true challange.


Your speaker choices are reasonable, the surrounds will probably work best in the "dipole" mode. Your front 3 could be larger to move more air in the large room, but the esthetics of the install area may preclude that. Paradigm Cinema series speakers would move the front 3 up a notch, but the cost would go up also. You might also look for an 8 ohm dipole speaker for the surrounds as the 4 ohm ERD's might be a challange for the mid-market receivers that fit your budget.


I'm not a fan of the Pioneer 1019 a/v receiver. You get a lot of features for the money, but I am very disappointed with Pioneer and the cheesy way they rate power on their VSX line. You have to go to the spec's in the manual to see they use the very outdated and obsolete FTC power rating tests that allow spec's to be shown with one channel loaded or, at most, two channels loaded. When all the channels are loaded the power per channel goes down and the THD goes up. Other options would be the Denon 1910, H/K 354, or Onkyo SR607, or any of the units "up line" from these manufacturers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/17047795


but I am very disappointed with Pioneer and the cheesy way they rate power on their VSX line.

I guess that also goes for the Elite VSX line? I noticed they rate the VSX-03thx at 7x110 Watts, but when you look at the power supply section, it only shows max power consumption of 390 Watts...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/17047795


you have a very difficult room to work with,

Yeah.


firefly466, would you consider having the TV on the wall which is to the left of the fireplace, and then the main sofa on the wall where the kitchen window opening is?


Placing the TV above fireplace, it looks like it will cause some neck strain after you're done with a movie, since it's pretty high up. I have a similar issue... the house we bought was prewired for a plasma above the fireplace, but we decided against putting the TV there due to the reason I just pointed out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
AVS members,


I am completely set on the T.V. being over the fireplace and have already ran the power, speaker wire, and HDMI over to that location; besides, once reclined the viewing angle is spot on. I can also tilt the T.V. up to 15 degrees to improve the view.


In regards to the receiver - I am not looking at the Denon 1910 in place of the Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K; however, I will need to do a more through investigation into the pioneer's power issues.


Furthermore, I figured that the 4 ohms was going to be a problem with the ERD-1 Di/bi pole surround speakers. I am now looking for alternatives.


M_vanmeter recommended the Paradigm Cinema Speakers for the L-C-F but I am not feeling the cabinets, as an alternative how about the definitive Technology ProMonitor 800's? Is there an equal comparison between the two?


Thank you so far for all of your opinions.


ProMonitor 800 :Specifications

Dimensions | Metric :4-3/4" W x 5" D x 8-3/8" H | 12.1 x 12.7 x 23.8 cm

Driver Complement :One 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter; One 4-1/2" BDSS bass/midrange drivers; One 4-1/2" pressure coupled bass radiator

Frequency Response :57 Hz - 30 kHz

Impedance :Compatible with 8 Ohms outputs

Sensitivity :89 dB

Recommended Associated Amplifier Power :10 - 150 watts

A/V Receiver Crossover Setting :100 Hz

Inputs :One pair of 5 way binding posts

Available Finishes :Gloss Black; Gloss White

Included Accessories :Tripod Base; Two ¼ 20 insert cover plugs

Mounting Options :Vertically: On Shelf with included tripod base; Equipped with rear ¼ 20 sized thread to accommodate on wall/on ceiling mounting with aftermarket mount(available separately); Equipped with bottom ¼ 20 sized thread to accommodate ProStand 600/800 stand mounting (ProStand 600/800 available separately); Equipped with keyhole mounting slot for flush mounting

Packaging :One to a carton

Weight | Metric :4 lbs | 1.8 kg

Warranty :5 Years



Paradigm Cinema 110

2 x Right/left channel speaker - 2-way - 120 - 20000 Hz - 8 Ohm - Wired , 1 x Center channel speaker - 2-way - 120 - 20000 Hz - 8 Ohm - Wired , 2 x Right/left rear channel
 

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both Paradigm and Def Tech are outstanding manufacturers - you will do fine with either, as it is doubtful you could actually audition both in your house.


you can not actually rate the amplifier output on a receiver to the AC line input wattage - there is a relationship, directly concerning the AC power transformer that produces the internal voltages for the circuitry, but it is not linear.


I believe, if my poor remaining brain cells are correct, the Pioneer Elite series receivers are actually rated with all channels loaded. The 1019 and its smaller brethren are rated using the two channels loaded FTC requirement. In most "normal" rooms you might not ever notice the difference unless you watch movies at ear-bleed levels. But when you need the "headroom" of amplifier power for very dynamic audio, the differences in how the receiver is rated and performes can be noticeable. Frankly, the use of powered subwoofers and excellent cross-over circuits has helped considerably with how the a/v receivers power output is used. When the very heavy lifting of handling low frequency sound is channeled to a different amplifier, the work load on the receiver is considerably reduced.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/17060048


I believe, if my poor remaining brain cells are correct, the Pioneer Elite series receivers are actually rated with all channels loaded. The 1019 and its smaller brethren are rated using the two channels loaded FTC requirement.

Sorry for the hi-jack, but just wanted to comment on this. It looks like this year's Elite VSX models are rated with all channels driven while the last year's Elite VSX models were rated according to FTC.
 

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Denons are rated with all channels driven - and I believe H/K are as well. I did not know that about Pioneer - although I have heard a lot of good things about their Elite line.


The 4 ohm surrounds shouldn't be an issue with the Denon. First, surround channels just don't get that much pushed to them - and unless you are pushing the limits of the receiver you aren't going to have issues with running speakers rated for a lower nominal resistance anyway - even on the front channels.


With speaker placement where I think it will end up - less than 10' from your LP - I sorta doubt even with that open room that you'll end up pushing any modern low-to-mid grade receiver to its limits. If your fronts were all 4ohm rated and known to be hard to drive - then I would worry. Not with the speakers you are picking out though.


I personally have a Denon 788 and PSB T55s up front - those are rated at 6ohms. I can turn it up far louder than I can stand and my receiver doesn't really heat up too much - but I do have a small listening area. My speakers are about 8' from my LP.


If you are going to go looking for a receiver or amp rated to handle 4ohm loads with a $500 budget - you might as well give up now. I was looking at this before I decided my next upgrade would be to separates to really take advantage of the speakers I have.


Also - I must say I think you're making a critical mistake here. You have budgeted half of your money for your receiver and half for the speakers. I would suggest 2:1 or 3:1 for the speakers side of it. If you want to buy a $500 receiver, then I think your speaker budget should be $1k to really take better advantage of all the equipment.


That said - on the budget-end I have heard good things about TSC recently, and I like your choice of the eD sub. I think you're on the right track in general.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hey guys:


I have done some research on some dipole speakers and have found three speakers (rated at 8 ohms), from different manufactures, that match my budget and aesthetic needs. Let me know what you think about the brands and their ability to perform with the definitive technology’s Pro cinema speakers.

The axioms are nice but are pushing the budget, which means I will have to put the purchase off a month or two. Is the quad-polar design worth the wait?

Also, I have included the original dipole speaker choice at 4 ohms.

Original plan:
ERD-1 Di/bi pole surround @ 300.00 – I need the look of these speakers.

Info – emotiva.com/erd1.shtm


• One 5.25" Woofers, two 25mm tweeters

• Sensitivity: 89db (2.83volts @ 1 Meter)

• Recommended amplifier power: 50-200 Watts RMS

• Frequency response: 80-20Khz +/-2db

• Ohms : 4 ?

• Four possible switch positions:


1. Left/Right Bipole

2. Left Dipole

3. Right Dipole

4. Left/Right Inverted Dipole


• 4.25" deep, 13" wide, 9.5" tall

• 29.5 lbs. pair (boxed) - 11 pounds each, unboxed

Cambridge SoundWorks : Price 350.00 Pair

Detailed Specifications:

SPEAKER TYPE:SURROUND

ENCLOSURE TYPE: ACOUSTIC SUSPENSION

CABINET FINISH :MIDNIGHT BLACK, WHITE

FREQUENCY RESPONSE :80HZ-22KHZ DIR. / 80HZ-16 KHZ DIPL. BIPL. MIN/MAX POWER :10 WATTS / 100 WATTS

SENSITIVITY : 86dB

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE :8 OHMS

MAGNETICALLY SHIELDED : NO

TWEETER SIZE :1" TWEETER

TYPE
OME TWEETER

FERROFLUID COOLING :YES

TWEETER MATERIAL :ALUMINUM

MID-RANGE SIZE :2 1/2" x 2 MID-RANGE

TYPE N/A

MID-RANGE MATERIAL :NATURAL FIBER

WOOFER SIZE :4"

WOOFER TYPE N/A

WOOFER MATERIAL :GRAPHITE-REINFORCED COMP.

CONNECTORS :GOLD PLATED BINDING POSTS

MOUNTING BRACKETS :WALL ANCHORS/SCRWS INCL SPEAKER DIMENSIONS :7"H X 11"W X 5 3/4"D

WEIGHT :6 LBS

WARRANTY :5 YRS


Axiom QS4 v2 Surround Speakers: Price – 430.00 Pair


Specs

QS4

Enclosure:

Acoustic Suspension

Max Amp Power:

175 Watts

Min Amp Power:

10 Watts

Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz):

100 - 22 kHz

Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz):

80 - 22 kHz

Impedance (Ohms):

8 Ohms

SPL in Room1w/1m(dB):

94 dB

SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(dB):

90 dB

X-Over

4.3 kHz

Tweeter:

Dual 1"

Woofer:

Dual 4 "

Sub Woofer:

-

Dimens. H W D (inches):

6.25" x 9.5" x 6"

Dimens. H W D (mm):

159 x 241 x 152

Weight (lbs) each

9.4 lbs

Weight (kg) each

4.264 kg

All Axiom Millennia Surround Speakers feature:

Twin Titanium Tweeters

Dual Aluminum Woofers, top and bottom

Anti-Standing-Wave Cabinets

Quadpolar Technology

24 karat 5-way gold-plated binding posts

The Speaker Company TSS 5.25" Dipolar 2 Way Surround Sound Speakers: Price – 170.00 Pair (Nice price but too good to be true?)


General

Type 2-way DiPole Reflex Surround Priced As Pair Woofer(s) 5.25" Aluminum Midrange Driver(s) Tweeter Type 1" HiCell High Efficiency Dome (x2) Magnetic Shielding No Performance

Frequency Response

80-20KHz

Crossover Frequency

Impedance in Ohms 8

Power handling (watts) 15-150

Sensitivity 89 dB

Dimensions

Height 12" Width 14.25 Depth 4.5"

Weight per speaker 18.757lbs

Finish White with white cloth grille


Again, thank you all for your input!
 

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TSC speakers...."too good to be true"......

not really - surround speakers for movie soundtracks are for ambient and positional audio effects, they carry very little actual information compared to the front 3 and subwoofer, therefore they do not need to have the overall performance of the other speakers in the system.


One way to address the problem of choice...get everything else ready to go and have the wiring in place for the surrounds. THEN order the TSC speakers and try them for the 30 day trial period. If you don't like the results, send them back and try some of the much more expensive models.
 
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