[mikeguava]

Hi,


I just saw the Qualia in the Sony Store in Las Vegas - right after seeing this beauty the salerperson let me see the HS51 - yikes. The difference was huge.

I realized right away that the Qualia was in a dedicated HT room - while the HS51 had tons of ambient lightening - what I saw between the 2 was day and night.


I would love to hear form someone who saw both in comparison in perfect set-up how vast the difference is.


all my PJ experience has been from my brother's Sony CRT projector and I finally wanted to make a move on a HS51 - but after seeing the Qualia ( and of course the CRT) this seems to be the one I want ( yet can't quite afford...yet)


Thanks


mike

 

[drapp1952]

Given the price difference one would hope there's a visual difference between the image projected by the Qualia 004 and the HS51. You might save your money for an anticipated SXRD fp somewhere in the $teens by late this year or sometime next.


Dan

 

[Gary Lightfoot]

Although I would expect the Qualia to be an improvement over the HS51, seeing them in different viewing conditions isn't realy giving them a true comparison at all.


You need to see them both in the same room and conditions so then you get a much better idea of how each performs. If you'd seen the Qualia with lots of ambient and the HS50 in a dedicated room, it's quite likely you would have preferred the HS50.


Gary.

 

[Bob Sorel]

Quote:

You need to see them both in the same room and conditions so then you get a much better idea of how each performs. If you'd seen the Qualia with lots of ambient and the HS50 in a dedicated room, it's quite likely you would have preferred the HS50.

I am speechless!

 

[HTCrazy]

Hehe - there are times when conventional wisdom just isn't.

 

[thebland]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot Although I would expect the Qualia to be an improvement over the HS51, seeing them in different viewing conditions isn't realy giving them a true comparison at all. You need to see them both in the same room and conditions so then you get a much better idea of how each performs. If you'd seen the Qualia with lots of ambient and the HS50 in a dedicated room, it's quite likely you would have preferred the HS50. Gary.

Cough! Cough!

 

[DanHouck]

While I doubt that anyone would prefer the dim and lower resolution HS50 over the Qualia, the point that showing one in optimal conditions while showing the other in poor conditions will magnify the difference, is valid. Particularly in the case of the HS50 that really lacks in the lumen department, showing it with ambient light is the kiss of death.


Mike, you simply have to accept that comparing a projector that costs $3K with one that costs more that $30K is not a good idea. Unless you plan to wait until you raise all that money, you should stick to looking at projectors you can afford and picking the best one of those. You might consider upping the ante a bit and looking at some of the DLP units priced in the $5-$7K range. The gap in performance between these and the Qualia, while still considerable, is significantly less.


Dan

 

[AnthonyP]

I agree with everything said


1) you cannot expect the 51 to be the same as the Qualia, yes there is always discussion with "is expensive worth it", that is already begging the question and usually from someone that never saw a better projector and wants to comfort the choice they made.


2) seeing two projectors in two completely different environments is just not faire to the projector in the bad environment. Especially when the environment has ambient light and the projector is dim like the 51. (you need light to fight light)

 

[darinp2]

Quote:

Originally posted by thebland Cough! Cough!

If we were closer I would take you up on that. I could bring over some shop lights and we could point them at the screen and turn them on while watching the Qualia and off while watching the HS51. Then see which one people prefer.





In all seriousness, your room is not capable of having as much ambient light as many rooms, given zero windows. I have no idea how much ambient light was meant by "lots", but even the Qualia has a limit for how much it can handle. Especially for anything dark where it doesn't take a lot of ambient light to lower on/off CR to under 500:1.


--Darin

 

[TheFerret]

What dealer is facing this duality? Either they are focusing on big-money clients or they are doing a poor job and have to revert back to entry-level customers. Without proper setup for each projector to produce the best performance the entire event is flawed.


Surprised no one offered the proverbial car analogy so far.

 

[JJay]

I also don't understand the disbelief over Gary's statement. I have little doubt most people would pick the good pj (hs51) in a great room over a great pj (qualia) in a horrible room...

 

[Bob Sorel]

Quote:

Surprised no one offered the proverbial car analogy so far.

Ok, I'll be glad to oblige you.

For this analogy, Chevrolet = Sony

Quote:

I also don't understand the disbelief over Gary's statement. I have little doubt most people would pick the good pj (hs51) in a great room over a great pj (qualia) in a horrible room...

If I saw a dirty, unpolished Corvette demo'd on a bumpy dirt road I would still prefer it as an auto over a well polished Chevette cruising at top speed on a smooth, silky properly banked race track. Even though the expensive Corvette would be demo'd at its worst while the Chevette at its best, my knowledge of the two vehicles would supercede the quality of the presentations. If I didn't know the first thing about cars, then you are right, maybe I would get taken in to believe that the Chevette was the better vehicle.

 

[darinp2]

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFerret What dealer is facing this duality? Either they are focusing on big-money clients or they are doing a poor job and have to revert back to entry-level customers. Without proper setup for each projector to produce the best performance the entire event is flawed.

I agree that it was flawed. Even in correct rooms with correct setup, the last thing I would expect a dealer to do would be to demo something like "AVP - Alien vs Predator" on both.


--Darin

 

[Icon Master]

While we are talking about Sony projectors...


There is a dealer here in New Orleans that has the HS51 and the Qualia in the same demo room. I saw them both in a brief demo and in the understatement of the year, the Qualia was better - by far. It is far brighter than the HS51 and even withstood a fair amount of light in the room when I asked the dealer to turn up the lighting.


However I will say that the HS51 was a pretty decent performer in a direct "true" comparison to what arguably is the best projector on the market today under identical near ideal viewing conditions. I however recently took the plunge on a another Sony unit that I do not believe has been discussed here previously and likely won't be since there is a snobbery toward 4:3 LCD units here, but I will still toss it out for you guys to dismiss.


Sony had a relatively new model projector that is tiny (12"x9"x2.5"), weighs six pounds and is rated at 2500 lumens. The model number is VPL-CX75. I allow a fair amount of ambient light in my viewing area (by design) and the high output of this unit works exceedingly well on my 11' Stewart 1.3 screen. In fact I have to run the Sony unit in econo mode which makes it practically silent and brings the lumens down to 2000 and the lamp life up to 3000 hours. Sony states that this unit uses the same cooling scheme as the Qualia. The case is gray-white in color and the Sony ceiling mount bracket is white. With the quiet fans (there are actually two small fans) and white color scheme I have a bright wall of 11 foot 4:3 standard video output and 10 foot 16:9 HiDef video output that seems to come from nowhere.


Other features of this projector irrelevant to home theater but are neat and worth mentioning are its ability to handle WiFi wireless input from PC's only (Sorry no Mac drivers) and it can read CF and Sony Memory stick cards. It has electronic zoom/focus and even motor driven front legs. The lens has a cover over it that opens and closes when the unit is powered on and off. It has an instant off and unplug feature. When you are finished your viewing you can quite literally turn it off and unplug it immediately from the wall. The fans keep on running for a couple of minutes to finish the bulb cool down while the unit is unplugged. And all of this comes from a quiet projector that is no larger than the average yellow page city class phone book.


Like the typical bright LCD unit it has the screen door effect but that can easily be toned down with a bit of defocussing which is a technique I also saw used by the dealer here selling the HS51 and Qualia units. The blacks are "blacker" on the HS51 compared to my CX75 but I love huge theater class output. I had a 6 foot Sony forward projector for more than twenty years and the 6' to 8' screens typically used with the nominal 1000 lumen DLP units touted here are to me not much more than the big ugly monolithic rear projection units.


I continue to contend that while this knowledgeable but possibly too lenient group puts up with 1000 lumen units that require near totally dark rooms and are willing to pay ten to twenty thousand bucks for the top models we will not see that true HiDef video wall in our home theaters most of us secretly dream of having. Other than the Qualia which is huge in size and currently way too costly there is not really much new coming out except the forthcoming LCOS Canon unit which preliminarily appears to have flaws but much promise.


Unfortunately many here are making their livings selling what is available now so they accept what is currently out there. I contend that we could possibly force faster progress in true home theater 16:9 units if we told our suppliers we want brighter and better than what they are offering us now. How do we do that? By not buying their overpriced under lumen'ed models and find ways to utilize the cheaper business class units where you get far more bang for the buck. Vote no for low (lumens) with your dollars!


I'll live with my not quite so dark blacks and buy a new, better business class unit every year or two and still be way ahead financially and screen size wise than folks that adore their phenomenally dark blacks on "huge" seven foot screens.

 

[JHouse]

Ambient light can make any projector, even a mega light canon, look low contrast, washed out, low color saturation and essentially unwatchable. (It's just a little harder with a light canon).


It would probably be pretty easy for a dealer to set up a good room (REALLY dark and unreflective) that would allow you to quickly A/B the projectors (using lens caps? - you can't watch the two projectors side by side at the same time because the light of the brighter projector would give it a clear superiority in contrast over the dimmer one) that made the average guy wonder about the cost/benefit of the Qualia.


But maybe there is enough profit in the Qualia to justify running off a few 51 purchasers in order to convince more people to stretch for the Qualia.

 

[usabrian]

Well somebody mentioned wanting the car analogy so:


Hey guys I was at my Chevy dealer today and saw the Chevi Cobalt and Corvette. It wasn't even close! Those commercials where the cars are pushing around the basketball sure are deceiving! The Cobalt cannot even keep up with the Corvette. Well I was driving the Cobalt in rush hour and the Corvette on Road Atlanta, but still!


Ok, its not quite right. For one thing the Corvette only costs about 4-times the Cobalt. Versus the Qualia being about 9X the HS51.


Brian

 

[kelliot]

Lots of nice car analogies, but cars are in a different sensory space. A comparison between a Qualia and a Corvette would be pretty subjective, but maybe as relevant.

 

[Semisentient]

Icon Master,


Back in my digital days I had a "nominal 1000 lumen DLP unit". Because I wanted the best picture possible I ensured my theatre was as dark as possible - no ambient light and black walls. I also had a 10'+ screen. If you care about contrast ratio at all, this is the only way to go. I can't imagine using any projector with ambient light for watching movies. For sports I could handle quite a bit of ambient light. A light cannon projector would not have suited my needs at all! I can only imagine fade to "black" scenes bright enough to read by...


James

 

[Jay M]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelliot Lots of nice car analogies, but cars are in a different sensory space. A comparison between a Qualia and a Corvette would be pretty subjective, but maybe as relevant.

LOL


I think I would choose a used corvette AND and an HS51 over a Qualia and a Coablt


~Jay

 

[triodeuser]

Quote:

Originally posted by Icon Master I will still toss it out for you guys to dismiss..........

Umm, well - I'm doing a similar thing with an NEC MT1060.


I bought mine to also use for business purposes 8 or ten days a year.


I figure that I can use it for HT a couple of years and then use something else for HT, but still keep the 1060 for presentations.


As you indicate, it's a little weak on the blacks.


Looked great on the Daytona 500 today - that was with some ambient light.


Nice not to have to worry so much about ambient light.


Regards


Ken L