AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After coming here in the past to get help, I had decided to go with a CRT projector and a 16:9 pull-down screen, because it was cheaper than a RPTV and it gave a bigger image. I am still in the process of saving money for the purchase, which is why I have not made up my mind yet. I keep going back and forth between the two.


I guess one major factor in the decision is that I live in an apartment, and will probably be living in some type of an apartment environment for years to come. It will be a long time before a house or condo is in the picture.


I guess my biggest concerns with the CRT is the size of the unit and how I am going to mount the screen. My living room is pretty big I guess, I think it's 17' x 14'. My plan is to mount the pull-down screen above the sliding glass door leading to the deck. That way I would eliminate the light source when watching movies and it could be up when I had guests over. Yes, I plan on getting black drapes to go over the blinds on the sliding-glass door to block out the most light possible. Then I was just going to place the projector on the ground the distance needed for the correct image size.


A voice inside me says not to mess with a FP setup and just get a RPTV, but when I go to budget for one of those I can't imagine spending $2500-$3000 for an image that is almost hlaf the size of FP image. I tell myself that I could upgrade speakers, etc. with the money left over from a used CRT unit.


Is the initial setup of a CRT FP that difficult? This will be my first unit of either type. I assume that I would mount the screen first seeing that this is the place I have the less room to play with, then I would adjust the projector accordingly. I don't know; I'm just kinda nervous about getting the FP. I don't know what to expect.


This post is more of just a vent than anything else. I am really excited about the chance to get an awesome setup in my apartment, and still can't believe I have the chance to get a 92" 16:9 image! I don't want to make any mistakes with money.


Thanks,

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by jamoka
Get both. Used crt projectors are dirt cheap these days.
Great advice for someone who is still saving up for the CHEAPER option. :rolleyes:


To the original poster:


Your living room is definitely big enough for a good FPTV setup. I say go for it - after you see the image you can get with a good front projector setup, you'll never go back. Take a look at the setup in my 12' by 15' living room:

http://tachyonic.net/photos


Other than the physical installation, I set it up myself after reading the AVS Forum. Convergence and registration are really not that hard to do.


Bryan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Hi Richard.


It sounds like it's the "complexity" of a CRT projector that's scaring you...? Yes, CRT projectors can be quite a job to tweak and tune, but i don't think it's some sort of rocket science :) If you are comfortable with tweaking & tuning other stuff (audio setups, TVs, computers, cars etc), you should be fine with this too, especially with the help from the people here. If you're totally not into that kind of stuff, and dont plan to be either, in other words, you like plug & play, than a CRT projector may prove to be frustrating for you, and you may end up regretting your choice. If, however, you are not afraid of the extra work that a CRT projector needs, then there's nothing to worry about then i think.


As for setup, it's not -that- big of a nightmare. Especially if you're going for a floor position for the projector you should be fine. If you were to ceiling mount, you'd have to know exactly where the projector needs to go etc, but with a floor position, you're free to slide it around until the picture fits the screen perfectly. So you don't have to worry about that i think. The drawback to floor "mounting" the projector is that the cone of space between the projector and the screen becomes "unuseable" space, as in nobody can sit there when you're watching stuff.


Something that might be important to you in your situation: a FP CRT projector, even though it's big and heavy, is nowhere near as big and heavy as a good sized widescreen RPTV. I speak from experience: i had a Toshiba 65" 16:9 widescreen HDTV, and it was a beast (400 pound and big). Moving it in and out of our house was a royal pain - it barely fit through the doorways (had to take the doors out and the screen off of it to make it work) and it was almost impossible to get that thing up and down our relatively narrow and low staircases. The CRT projector was much easier to carry and move around. So if you plan on moving in the near future, a CRT projector is a much more practical choice for sure. Also, the CRT projector takes up less space in the room than a big RPTV.


Good luck with your decision :)


Gertjan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,916 Posts
Richard,

You have someone in your neck of the woods who bought a 1271 from me, set it up and loves it. Send me a PM and I'll give you his email and you can get together with him and check out his system. I'm sure he won't mind.

After you see his system, come on down and I'll sell you a Sony as well.

Later
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah, I just needed more pushing in the FP direction. ;)


Bryan,

You have an awesome setup! I love the motorized screen too. I looked for a manual pull-down that was tensioned, but no go. They were too much money for me. I guess I'll stick with a Da-Lite Model B pull-down. Hopefully, it will work fine. BTW, how did you mount the CRT? Is it on the floor or the ceiling?


Gertjan,

I don't mind tweaking stuff. I'm a computer science guy, who loves building computers and messing with them. I don't think a projector could that much different. You're right. I never thought that the RPTV would actually be heavier than the projector. Good tip. Thanks.


Chuchuf,

I'll PM you soon. Thanks.


Thanks for the help everyone. One question...Are front projectors much different to ISF calibrate? I was planning on getting this done to get the best possible image. Do I need to have someone do this for me, or could I do this? Is it different than setting up a RPTV?


Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Richard -


It sounds like you wont have a problem with tweaking & tuning a projector then :)


As for ISF calibration - i'm not an ISF guy, but i've read quite a bit about it and had my TV ISF calibrated, so i know something about it:


A RPTV is not that much different from a FPTV - both have the 3 CRTs that throw a picture on a screen :) If anything, a FP is "easier" to calibrate because all the options for calibration are readily accessible, whereas with a RPTV, you need access to advanced menus hidden in the TV etc. Some options you just dont have access to with certain RPTVs (like Red Push on last year's Mitsubishi's - apparently you just cant get rid of that).


A FP is a professional piece of equipment, and thus the menus and settings are aimed at professionals who need to tune and tweak it. In a FP, all the important and calibration-related settings are readily available through the menus (at least with my E'home Marquee 8501LC they are).


A RPTV however is aimed at regular consumers, and thus all the advanced settings etc are hidden from the user to keep them from doing more damage than good. Yes, there are ways to get into these hidden menus. But it's considered "hacking" and often will void your warranty on the set. And it's kinda adventurous because it's not a nice user interface hat tells you what you're doing - often it's just a bunch of hex registers that you're changing values in. And if you change the wrong register, you may turn your RPTV into a very expensive doorstop :eek:


Anyway - the point is that FP can be very well ISF calibrated, probably more effectively so than a RPTV even. Can you do it yourself or do you need somebody to do it for you? That depends on if you have the knowledge and equipment. To do a proper setup, you need to get the grey scale right, and you need a specialized piece of equipment to help you with that, AND you need to know how to use it / interpret its readings properly. You can rent such a color analyser for about $150 per week i believe. Beyond the grey scale calibration, i believe all tweaks are doable by yourself, if you hve the knowledge and patience. A good ISF guy is trained to do this stuff and has the experience to do it right the first time, so he saves you time and frustration. However, part of the fun (at least for me) of "HT-ing" is the tweaking and learning etc :) By doing as much as possible yourself you appreciate all the tweaks and the resulting picture that much more.


My advice would be to wait with getting your setup ISFed for a while, and first play and tweak to your hearts delight, using all the info and help you can find here on this forum. You know you will be doing that out of curiousity anyways :) That way you'll learn what all is possible, what ll the different settings do, and you'll also learn what you cannot do. Then you can get a professional calibrator to do those things that you cannot do yourself. It'd be a waste of your money if you got a ISF guy to come in and tweak the grey scale for you and then you go and mess with the FP's settings and potentially have to redo the grey scale again.


Also check out www.***************.com, the people over there talk about tweaking and tuning their RPTVs a lot, and much of the stuff applies in some form or fashion to a FP as well. You'll learn a lot there.


Have fun :)


Gertjan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,464 Posts
No new ground here. RP is dictated over FP when room lighting can not be totally controlled. The inside of the box is dark. FP easily wins when you can control room lighting, i.e., when you can get the room dark and keep any light from other than the projector from hitting the screen. FP can use a much bigger screen. Further many but not all FPs are superior to the quality of the projectors used in RPTV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by mark haflich
No new ground here. RP is dictated over FP when room lighting can not be totally controlled. The inside of the box is dark. FP easily wins when you can control room lighting, i.e., when you can get the room dark and keep any light from other than the projector from hitting the screen. FP can use a much bigger screen. Further many but not all FPs are superior to the quality of the projectors used in RPTV.
Being a newbie, I have a silly question. Is this true even with today's high Lumen-rated FP sets?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,886 Posts
I have also been torn between another RPTV or an FP.

What other equipment do you need to get a HDTV picture and

watch OTA channels also (not necessary HDTV)?


I have a 43" Sony now and was also wondering how much would

a used FP setup to watch DVD's or Directv?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,959 Posts
ISF: Learning how to operate the controls on the FP that the ISF technician would operate is easy. (At least on my ECP series FP). Getting the color balance correct without the tools and knowledge to use them is tough though. However, since having an ISF technician tune me up would have cost as much as my projector itself, I just eyeballed it! I bet its not exactly right, but I bet it would be really tough for someone to be able to tell the difference. It looks great to me (and my friends) so that's good enough. I wouldn't worry about this part. Set it up yourself and if you're unhappy, do it again. If you're *still* unhappy, then maybe you can call someone to dial it in nicely for you (but I bet you'll eventually get it to where you love it by yourself).


Equipment needed: I'm going to keep this relative to a 7" CRT projector because I have one and good ones are cheap.


Bare minimum you need the projector, a screen, a progressive scan DVD player, and a line-doubler to convert your interlaced sources (Satellite, VCR, etc) to progressive scan. You could replace the DVD player and line-doubler with a PC however. With a DIY screen you could easily accomplish the above for less than $2000 and be happier than if you had brought home an RPTV.


Cary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeke013



Being a newbie, I have a silly question. Is this true even with today's high Lumen-rated FP sets?
To a certain extend, yes. The ambient light in the room washes out the picture, no matter how much light your projector can throw onto the screen. To put it simply: the darkest areas in the picture can only be shown as dark as the screen is in the room. Since the screen is white, any ambient light will "light up" the screen, and hence the darkest areas in the picture will be as light as the screen is in the ambient light. If you have bright sunlight in the room, making your white screen nicely lit up, then no matter how bright your projector is, the picture will appear washed out because it lacks the dark tones.


When you're talking about just a small amount of ambient light, then a high lumens projector like a LCD or DLP projector will probably do ok, because the brightness of the light areas kinda compensates for the lack of dark. But if you're watching a movie with lotsa dim scenes, then it's gonna look like crap no matter what.


A RPTV can do better in these situations because the inside of the box and hence the screen are dark, even in pretty light rooms.


It remains best to have a darkened room to watch movies in with either setup (FP or RPTV).


Gertjan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I can cotrol the light input of the room to the point where no external light comes in. There is only the sliding glass door, which the screen will cover up. I also plan to have black shades in front of the glass door as well. However, my room is painted a beige color and has beige carpet. I was planning on getting a dark rug, but there isn't much I can do about the paint. I live in an apartment. So, will this be a problem then?


Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Richard -


Our home theater room has a white ceiling and a light carpet, and the picture suffered from it because light coming off of the screen was reflected back onto the screen by the white ceiling and light colored carpet, and thus washing out the picture (dark areas werent really dark). The walls contributed to this as well, but to a lesser extend since they were a dark red.


What i ended up doing was getting a lot of black felt from the fabric store (72" wide, 20ft long) and stapled it to the wall and ceiling, and put a strip on the floor in front of the screen as well. Now the screen is "boxed in" by the black felt, and the picture looks much better.


You could perhaps do something similar. Stapling the felt to the wall and ceiling is pretty non-destructive, so you could get away with that in an apartment. Then a black / dark rug or something would be good too probably to put on the floor to minimize the light being reflected back to the screen.


Good luck :)


Gertjan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by RichardW
Bryan,

You have an awesome setup! I love the motorized screen too. I looked for a manual pull-down that was tensioned, but no go. They were too much money for me. I guess I'll stick with a Da-Lite Model B pull-down. Hopefully, it will work fine. BTW, how did you mount the CRT? Is it on the floor or the ceiling?
My projector is ceiling mounted. That's the only part of the projector installation that I didn't do myself. I wanted that done by someone who knew what he was doing because my viewing position is right under the projector.


Another (important) note:


Don't count on the projector screen to blow out light from your glass sliding door. First of all, the screen may not be 100% opaque so you might see it being lit from behind. Stewart, for example, will put extra backing material if you specify it. Second, if light leaks from the side of the screen it will be enough to ruin the picture.


You'll probably need curtains in front of the glass door if it's bright.


Bryan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Bryan,

My post may have been unclear, but I was planning on getting some black drapes to between the screen and the glass door when watching movies.


Hummm...So, maybe I should just be happy with a RPTV then? Not that a RPTV would be a bad thing? I would love to have the chance to own either. But I have beige walls and beige carpet plus a white ceiling (with those specs/dimples sprayed on it). Maybe my living situation isn't going to provide for a good FP setup afterall.


I would hate to have black drapes hanging all over the place. Granted it would help for movie watching, but it would not look so good during regular lounging in the living room. I have to ponder this some more, but it looks like the RPTV route will be the best then.


Crap!:(


Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,916 Posts
rgathtright,

To watch HD on a projector, I use a Dish 6000 receiver and take the SVGA output via a breakout cable, and run it directly to the G-70 projector. The 6000 outputs 720p (in my case) or 1080i and is selectable. You can also watch the SDTV channels this way and they are very good (depending on the material, and not as good as the HD stuff). Another words the 6000 is scaling the SDTV to 800 x 600. I also have an OTA module for the over the aor local channels. So that takes care of the HD and TV.

Now for DVD playback a simple and cost effective solution is to get a regular DVD player (not progressive scan) and hook up the SVideo output to a DVDO IScan, which will output 480p (progressive) directly to the projector. Even on a G-70 the picture looks good, and works very well on a 1271 or 1272.

Total cost is reasonable and you get a lot more bang for the buck than you will out of a HD RPTV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
618 Posts
I chose a 50" rear projector for my living room because I wanted to be able to watch broadcast TV as well as DVDs, and to do so during the day without totally disrupting the household with blackout curtains. The RPTV I have is a Barco Retrographics, which is essentially a Barco 801s chassis inside a RP box. It _is_ possible to get rear projection whose quality is comparable to FP.


The downsides are the visibility of the texture of the Fresnel screen and its relatively small size (50"). However, I am one of those people who prefers sitting at a distance of about 2.5x the screen diagonal in order to see a sharp picture with minimal artifacting. I appreciate the viewpoint of those who prefer the envelopment of a larger picture, but I've always found the artifacts to be very irritating and distracting. (I also insist on sitting about 2/3 of the way back in a movie theater, which mystifies some of my friends no end...)


--Robert
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't think I could live with myself, knowing I could have spent half of what I would pay for a RPTV and gotten something better.


I guess I can look into some drapes along the walls, where I could manually slide them out when watching a movie and put them back when doing anything else. But that will only solve for one wall. The other side wall is actually a protruding fireplace. So, no drapes for that wall then. Man this sucks.


Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top