[carp]

I have a SVS sub (don't know the model, it's 2 12 inch woofers in a larger than life enclosure, it cost 1000 with shipping if I remember right) that I have been using for the past 2 and a half years, and it's fantastic for movies. It also sounds very good for music if I have it calibrated to match the other speakers....


However, I enjoy a little more bass so I like to run the sub around 5db hot for music. The problems is that sometimes in order to get the feel from the bass that I want I also get bloated sounding bass. Maybe what I want doesn't exist, I want punch and feel and I want it to be quick as hell. I've never heard a sub that does it like I would want it, so like I said I may be asking for the impossible.


Lately I've seen a lot of posts about sealed subs. I am wondering if they will give me the magic bass I've been looking for. Do I have to shell out 3 grand for the JL Audio to get it?


Keep in mind that I could still use the SVS for movies and another sub for music. I usually listen to music at around 85 db and never go above 95 db (and that's rare) in my 18x23x8 room that's fully enclosed with carpet over concrete.


Is there a sub that sounds puchy, quick and not boomy even though it is hot for music? I want that "hit in the chest" feeling that I've never had with my current sub when it comes to music.


BTW, music performance is infinitely more important to me than movies.

 

[Darin]



Quote:
Originally Posted by carp /forum/post/0


Do I have to shell out 3 grand for the JL Audio to get it?

You may want to keep an eye on this thread and see what kind of conclusion he has. Granted, it's only one opinion, but it's not often we get to see direct comparisons between DIY kits and commercial subs, so it should be interesting.


I have a DIY sub based on two of the same kits he's ordering. I'd like to say I'm a purist, and listen to everything perfectly matched "as intended", but the truth is, I run my sub hot too.

To my ears, it continues to sound clean and tight even when run hot. This is in very stark contrast to my previous Sunfire, which sounded like crap when run too high. Turning it up just exaggerated the faults that I felt that sub had. That's going to be an exaggerated example, because the I think the Sunfire is poor in this area anyway. If SE-Raider's impressions mirror my own, then that may be something for you to consider, considering your goals.

 

[woodynlily]

Read the side of the box.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/408/svssa9.jpg


"Hit in the chest" feeling?



http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/mbm-12.html

 

[rockemsockem]



Quote:
Originally Posted by woodynlily /forum/post/0


Read the side of the box.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/408/svssa9.jpg


"Hit in the chest" feeling?



http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/mbm-12.html

That might be the way to go, especially for only $400.

 

[vinyl]

Two VTF-3 MK 2 in stereo configuration will do it - movies OR music!!!

 

[JEFFREY GTS]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rockemsockem /forum/post/0


That might be the way to go, especially for only $400.

I am very impressed with the low frequencies on my SVS PB12-NSD. I love it but I do feel that I am missing a little of that upper bass,"hit you in the chest" type of bass, so I am pretty much sold on the MBM. Can't wait to get one and try it out.

 

[rockemsockem]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vinyl /forum/post/0


Two VTF-3 MK 2 in stereo configuration will do it - movies OR music!!!

Vinyl, they're not ready for that! Don't hurt 'em!


I can't wait until I can make that move one day.

 

[Ethan Winer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by carp /forum/post/0


Is there a sub that sounds puchy, quick and not boomy

Boomy is usually more a function of your room than which sub you have. Most untreated rooms have excessive ringing at many different bass frequencies, and that's probably your real problem. I have an SVS dual-12 and it is extremely tight and clear with all music. But I also have a large number of bass traps.


--Ethan

 

[vinyl]

I confess to 20 acoustic panels and agree with Ethan.

Rockemsockem buddyas you have privy to the real deal

once you arrive you'll be in the upper echelon - at that time you'll be giggling when reading these sub forums

 

[carp]

Thanks for all the ideas guys. The HSU bass module looks interesting, I'll be doing some research on that.


The though of using bass traps is intimidating to me. I'm not sure where to put them, how much they cost, if they wife would finally draw the line and not allow it etc.


To be clear, when the sub is calibrated correctly it doesn't sound boomy at all. It's just that I want some more bass when I listen to music.


Sometimes I wish I could go back to what I had back in college. I was using Cerwin Vegas with 15 inch woofers, the bass boost was on, the bass and treble knobs were maxed, I was using a graphic eq with the smiley face configuration

, and damn the bass rattled me from head to toe with any type of music.


That all changed in 2000 when I did some research online for a good pair of headphones, bought some Grado's and realized that my system sounded like arse. I now have Axiom's all around could never go back to the way it was before, but there are times that I miss that feeling that the bass is going through me, and rattling my chest cavity and not the windows.

 

[cyberbri]

I agree that adding bass traps to the room would be the best place to start. Then, an eq if necessary. If something is still missing, upgrading the sub or adding something like the MBM would be warranted.


But without bass traps and perhaps an eq, you aren't hearing the sub at its fullest potential, and any sub upgrade wouldn't necessarily fix what's wrong.


Bass traps go in the corner, and can be DIYed, or purchased from places like Real Traps or GIK Acoustics at varying price levels. The Tri-Traps at gikacoustics.com are especially non-intrusive, and you could even build similar bass traps yourself with the right research, tools and materials.



EDIT: Even a few bass traps in my corners (2x 244 panels from GIK per corner - 4 panels for about $250) greatly improved the sound of the bass. Less ringing and boominess, something I didn't even know was there till I heard it with the panels and noticed it was gone. Lets you hear the notes and texture in the bass, rather than all that being masked over by room ringing. $250 should let you treat your 2 front corners with pre-made panels and greatly improve the sound. I added a BFD ($110 incl shipping) after that, and the Velodyne SMS-1 is a more expensive but much quicker and more intuitive eq solution.

 

[ggunnell]

Carp, here's a couple reasonable cost vendors for acoustic panels:
http://www.atsacoustics.com/
http://www.gikacoustics.com/

 

[OvalNut]

I have GIK Acoustics treatments in my room. 3 dedicated bass traps and 9 panels. The improvement is not at all subtle.



Tim

 

[thehun]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/0


I agree that adding bass traps to the room would be the best place to start. Then, an eq if necessary. If something is still missing, upgrading the sub or adding something like the MBM would be warranted.


But without bass traps and perhaps an eq, you aren't hearing the sub at its fullest potential, and any sub upgrade wouldn't necessarily fix what's wrong.


Bass traps go in the corner, and can be DIYed, or purchased from places like Real Traps or GIK Acoustics at varying price levels. The Tri-Traps at gikacoustics.com are especially non-intrusive, and you could even build similar bass traps yourself with the right research, tools and materials.



EDIT: Even a few bass traps in my corners (2x 244 panels from GIK per corner - 4 panels for about $250) greatly improved the sound of the bass. Less ringing and boominess, something I didn't even know was there till I heard it with the panels and noticed it was gone. Lets you hear the notes and texture in the bass, rather than all that being masked over by room ringing. $250 should let you treat your 2 front corners with pre-made panels and greatly improve the sound. I added a BFD ($110 incl shipping) after that, and the Velodyne SMS-1 is a more expensive but much quicker and more intuitive eq solution.

I second this point by point.


Too many people are looking for a "magic wand" of product and ignore the basics.

Obtaining great bass is a not a "plug and play" scenario unfortunatelly, and basic level calibration is only the tip of the iceberg, much more needed in most cases.

 

[BrutalBodyShots]

Very off topic here, but how can anyone spend $1000+ on a subwoofer and not know what model sub they got?

 

[JEFFREY GTS]

I thought that was kind of funny myself.

 

[craigsub]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots /forum/post/0


Very off topic here, but how can anyone spend $1000+ on a subwoofer and not know what model sub they got?

Some ideas


1. He makes $250,000 per year, so the $1000 was not an issue.

2. He has a life.

3. He turned in his pocket protector after graduation.

4. it was easier to type "don't know the model, it's 2 12 inch woofers in a larger than life enclosure, it cost 1000 with shipping if I remember right" than the actual model #.

 

[Darin]

Two and a half years is a long time. I research things quite heavily before I buy them, but after that some details are fogotten. I'm not sure if I could tell you with complete certainty the model# of anything in my rack without getting up and looking. I know the brand of each item, but after a couple years the numbers tend to run together.


Oh, and I apologize for my first post in this thread - for some reason I thought I was in the DIY forum when I posted. See, I can't even keep up with which forum I'm in.

 

[hifiger]

Carp,


As soon as i read this post it seemed obvious what you need to do to acheive your goal.

Buy a BFD or other form of parametric eq and make some house curves, one for music and one for movies. The movie curve can have the low bass set up the way you want, and the music curve can have a low end rollof to give more emphasis to the midbass..say 60-140hz. These frequencies are the ones mostly responsible for the "Kick in the chest" feeling you seem to want more of. The "muddy bass" you hear, is either due to bad room resonances-which can be addressed with bass traps, and exessive output in the lower bass frequencies (

 

[flafonta]

I have the same "sub-with-the-name-I-don't-remember-because-it-was-changed-a-few-times-but-it-has-2-12-inches-woofers-and-cost-about-1000".


I had a similar feeling to what you describe. I really like to "feel" the music, but I had to put the sub too hot which was bloating the overall sound quality.


What really did it for me was the addition of tactile transducers as recomended above.


I have the Crowson Tech and I am very please with the end result. I can run my sub more neutral and still have a great kick in the chest feeling.