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Discussion Starter #81
Too much brightness? That is pretty funny, since 99.9% of the projector owners out there, would not complain, if they had even more brightness. The JVC and Epson have a manual iris that is used, along with lamp power to adjust the brightness.
Mike, please tell me what to expect out of the JVC then.

The below is based on what you all have been saying in this thread:


1300 lumens (with filter, full wide @Javs) 28.6fL (97 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1144 lumen (1.54x zoom) 25.2fL (86 nits)

1440 lumens (with filter, full wide @Mike Garrett) 31.7fL (108 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1267 lumen (1.54x zoom) 27.9fL (95 nits)

1500 lumens (without filter, full wide), 33fL (113 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1320 lumen (1.54x zoom) 29.1fL (99 nits)

1600 lumens (without filter, full wide), 35.2fL (120 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1408 lumen (1.54x zoom) 31fL (106 nits)


You previously mentioned 1440 lumens, that's 1267 lumens (95 nits) on screen with a fresh lamp, taking my zoom into account.

That's not enough?


I know brightness is a very personal thing, more is always better etc.

But really, how much do you have, and is 95 nits like a bad purchase?


Too little brightness is the REAL problem. We rarely discuss too much brightness in here.
Please, elaborate on the above quote and response to Mike, would you say 95 nits is not enough?


There are a lot of variables in that question, it depends how you will be doing masking panels.
I will use a 2.40:1 physical screen, always project a 16:9 image but with the letterboxes masked with the projectors masking capabilities.

I will configure two modes, 1 mode which reveals the full 16:9 image, and one mode which masks down to 2.40:1.


I will always mask for 2.40:1 when watching movies, doesn't matter if they are 2.35:1 or 2.20:1.

Zooming, changing the lens by motorization, will never take place, I will zoom it once, then leave it be.


The reveal for a full 16:9 image is only done in the case of having to navigate in the bluray menus etc.

Subtitles (if any) can be changed up and down with the Panasonic, the luminance level of the subtitles can also be adjusted.


Seating cannot be changed, 2nd row is 17', 1st row is 15'.

In Europe, that seating distance combined with the 118" 2.40:1 is a MASSIVE image, most people have 65" TV's for that exact same distance.

However, those people are not on these boards, discussing...


Vitus4K there are a lot of assumptions that will change once you spend some time with the unit. It would be better to get a very cheap model instead of jumping head first into a JVC projector.
Man, you're putting up too much conflict in my head, I was just about to proceed with the JVC.

The price difference between these units is not of issue to me, this thread and my worries is basically just about black levels and brightness.

For blacks, I've been investigating whether or not the Epson will do, but after lots of back and forth between you guys and other people, I decided the JVC will avoid a let down.


For brightness, I'm still not quite sure, some say 100 nits is not needed, other say as much as possible.

My stomach tells me too much brightness could strain my eyes with bright and dark scene switching, thunders etc.

A friend of mine has mentioned 104 nits is just about right in his living room, I may end up getting 95 nits.

I could adjust the JVC to accommodate for a higher nit level, but going all the way for an Epson seems like a mistake to me.

Maybe mounting the JVC closer is a better choice, obviously.
 

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At this point I feel it's all about the brightness.

After all, I want to watch 'The Dark Knight' and not the 'The Gray Knight', no offense.

Pretty much considering the JVC at this point.

Talked to several people yesterday who indeed implied that the JVC would benefit even from a darkened living room, even more so with a high contrast screen.

I have a dealer which has the very last RS-540/X790R/X7900 in stock, trying to figure out of I should pull the trigger on this one, I'm really tempted.


Summarizing the the thread somewhat, here's what it'd look like with the JVC:

+ 108" wide screen, 1.0 gain.
I strongly suggest you increase your screen gain to something like 1.3.

My JVC can hit very high contrast and so long as the room is suitably treated, you will see it on the screen. The extra gain really helps for HDR. I would not consider 1.0 gain unless you have a light cannon. These days you need all the help you can get.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
I strongly suggest you increase your screen gain to something like 1.3.

My JVC can hit very high contrast and so long as the room is suitably treated, you will see it on the screen. The extra gain really helps for HDR. I would not consider 1.0 gain unless you have a light cannon. These days you need all the help you can get.
Can you recommend such a screen with ALR properties?
 

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Can you recommend such a screen with ALR properties?
Why do you think you need an ALR screen?

Keep in mind that screens almost all lie about the real gain, except the Stewart. All those ALR screens that claim to be 1.5, most of them are fake and are really 1.0 gain. So getting the right ALR screen is not a simple task.

You really don't want to buy the screen yet, get blackout cloth and use that temporarily and figure out the screen later. It's fairly simple to just tack blackout cloth. You're sitting so far back, the Blackout cloth will look just as good. It costs $30 and will look the same, especially from 12+ feet back. Finer screen materials and texture only make a difference when sitting closer.

You don't really NEED 1.3 gain, especially not on a new lamp. It's just nice to have for HDR that is mastered too dimly, but you don't need it.

I am using that screen size with 1.0 gain, I still use the fixed Iris at -8 for most content. I use aperture at 0 for HDR, but it's bright enough. Would I like some HDR to be brighter, yah sometimes, but not enough to really care that much.
 

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Discussion Starter #86

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Discussion Starter #87
Why do you think you need an ALR screen?
Mate, I'm not sure, I've just considered an ALR screen because I'm in a living room.

If white is an option, I've been thinking completely wrong, then this might be easier than I first thought, much easier.
 

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Man, you're putting up too much conflict in my head, I was just about to proceed with the JVC.

The price difference between these units is not of issue to me, this thread and my worries is basically just about black levels and brightness.

For blacks, I've been investigating whether or not the Epson will do, but after lots of back and forth between you guys and other people, I decided the JVC will avoid a let down.


For brightness, I'm still not quite sure, some say 100 nits is not needed, other say as much as possible.

My stomach tells me too much brightness could strain my eyes with bright and dark scene switching, thunders etc.

A friend of mine has mentioned 104 nits is just about right in his living room, I may end up getting 95 nits.

I could adjust the JVC to accommodate for a higher nit level, but going all the way for an Epson seems like a mistake to me.

Maybe mounting the JVC closer is a better choice, obviously.
Dont worry about spending money 'right' the first time. I bought a 4K Sony for my first projector some years ago, at the time that may have been considered a bit crazy.

Regarding brightness, the JVC's radically incresse in contrast the more you stop down the iris, so ideally, you want more than enough brightness, and then adjust the iris to get say, 100 nits or so.

I currently use about 75 nits for HDR, even though I could get about 110 in high lamp, but I just use low because most of the time the tone mapping is so good you would have a hard time picking which mode you are in. The eyes get used to things very quickly. Remember a lot of us would watch SDR Bluray at about 50 nits, including when you visit the theatre, so with the headroom in HDR, you are still good to go. I watch SDR on my JVC at low lamp -10 on the iris which is just about 3/4 closed! The magic there is my contrast at that point is over 100k:1.

As I said before, increase your screen gain! thats the easiest way to get free brightness.

You dont want to run a projector full tilt and have no headroom for the lamp to age etc. So I wouldnt fixate on the brightness being too much (there is no such thing when you have an adjustable iris) so long as you could very comfortably pull off at least 75/80 nits, 100 is better. With more gain you might get even more.
 

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1.3 gain is great, but the only screen options I'm aware are the Stewart and this stuff (if you can get it in stock)
https://www.silverticketproducts.com/products/str-62wmaterial?variant=2657438979

Second options means making your own screen.

Stewart is slightly better, but it costs a LOT more.
There should be a ton of screens with near 1.3 gain.

Severtson is another option overseas, I am in Australia so we have a local manufacturer here which is good, but I wouldnt think the options are limited here, far from it.
 

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You have a living room with dark gray front and mid-gray side walls, white ceiling, and waxed floor. Get a black temp throw rug you drag out only when watching movies, even just a big piece of black cloth you can drop in front of the screen when you are watching something that needs it. Look into temp ceiling treatments, I don't know.

There is really no way for us to tell you everything to do, because it depends on your own tastes, there are options though.

Well, I'd say get the ceiling painted if possible, but I guess that kind of work would be hard to do at the moment unless you did it yourself.

ALR is hard to say, I haven't seen that many ALR screens, but the ones I have seen, I wasn't impressed. It can help slightly, but not really. It's usually just a wash or the rooms they can help are so bad in the first place, that a TV would be better.

Your only real decision would be TV vs. projector I guess, as the thread says. TV has some benefits in your case, but you said only watching at night, so you can make a projector work too.
 

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Discussion Starter #92
You really don't want to buy the screen yet, get blackout cloth and use that temporarily and figure out the screen later. It's fairly simple to just tack blackout cloth. You're sitting so far back, the Blackout cloth will look just as good. It costs $30 and will look the same, especially from 12+ feet back. Finer screen materials and texture only make a difference when sitting closer.
Just one question:

What's blackout cloth?

I Google it and it seems to be white, what's it got to do with black?
 

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There should be a ton of screens with near 1.3 gain.

Severtson is another option overseas, I am in Australia so we have a local manufacturer here which is good, but I wouldnt think the options are limited here, far from it.
There might be, but I think the Severtson is almost the same price these days, so mise well go with the Stewart. It depends on the frame you choose I guess, I don't know, but when I've looked for 1.3 gains screens in the past, there was nothing under $2000 hardly.

So I'm not aware of much else, either the quality is much lower, or they lie on the gain.
 

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Just one question:

What's blackout cloth?

I Google it and it seems to be white, what's it got to do with black?
It's a material that is commonly used for blacking out Windows. It's called blackout cloth because it doesn't let much light through, yah it is white. It has similar properties to PVC. It's not perfectly non-textured, but for $30 or so, makes a hell of a temp screen. You can also tack it straight to the wall, and if you want, you can paint it later. Walmart sells it, you can order it online in an entire roll if you need extra.

I used Roclon 1.0 BO Cloth (white not ivory), and I was so happy with it, that I still use it as one of multiple screens. It looks exactly the same as a Draper screen I own texture-wise, it's not perfectly zero texture like the Silver Ticker material or Stewart or Severtson, but if you are sitting that far back, it will look identical. Doesn't develop waves, if you tack it correctly.

There is also Spandex, but it's too negative gain (like 0.7 gain), BO cloth is around 0.9 to 0.95, basically 1.0... Works fine.
 

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There might be, but I think the Severtson is almost the same price these days, so mise well go with the Stewart. It depends on the frame you choose I guess, I don't know, but when I've looked for 1.3 gains screens in the past, there was nothing under $2000 hardly.

So I'm not aware of much else, either the quality is much lower, or they lie on the gain.

Screens tend to have more longevity than projectors or electronics. Seems like a good idea to get a great screen that will carry you through several projector upgrades.


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Screens tend to have more longevity than projectors or electronics. Seems like a good idea to get a great screen that will carry you through several projector upgrades.
There are a lot of variables, will a person be moving?
Do they want to change screen sizes?

I would definitely not buy a screen right off the bat on my first projector purchase...

I would get a cheap screen, Silver Ticket pre-made, Silver Ticket DiY material to make my own, or use Blackout Cloth.
Spending $2000+ on a screen as a first-time projector buyer is a slip.

At 12'+ away, other than gain difference, these screens offer no benefit over tacked blackout cloth. At 15'+, it's not even possible to see any difference at all.
 

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There are a lot of variables, will a person be moving?
Do they want to change screen sizes?

I would definitely not buy a screen right off the bat on my first projector purchase...

I would get a cheap screen, Silver Ticket pre-made, Silver Ticket DiY material to make my own, or use Blackout Cloth.
Spending $2000+ on a screen as a first-time projector buyer is a slip.

At 12'+ away, other than gain difference, these screens offer no benefit over tacked blackout cloth. At 15'+, it's not even possible to see any difference at all.

This is true. I also went cheap at first and then upgraded. I’ll also say that if you’re sitting that far away where you can’t tell the difference ... you MIGHT also not be able to tell the difference between projectors or resolution.


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This is true. I also went cheap at first and then upgraded. I’ll also say that if you’re sitting that far away where you can’t tell the difference ... you MIGHT also not be able to tell the difference between projectors or resolution.
That's true on resolution, but the cheaper projectors just have such horrid black levels. Like at least with TV's you can get some cheapish TV's with 5000:1 Native or somewhere around there. With projectors, there is no middleground, the Epson is the only middleground really.
 

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Discussion Starter #99
It's a material that is commonly used for blacking out Windows. It's called blackout cloth because it doesn't let much light through, yah it is white. It has similar properties to PVC. It's not perfectly non-textured, but for $30 or so, makes a hell of a temp screen. You can also tack it straight to the wall, and if you want, you can paint it later. Walmart sells it, you can order it online in an entire roll if you need extra.

I used Roclon 1.0 BO Cloth (white not ivory), and I was so happy with it, that I still use it as one of multiple screens. It looks exactly the same as a Draper screen I own texture-wise, it's not perfectly zero texture like the Silver Ticker material or Stewart or Severtson, but if you are sitting that far back, it will look identical. Doesn't develop waves, if you tack it correctly.

There is also Spandex, but it's too negative gain (like 0.7 gain), BO cloth is around 0.9 to 0.95, basically 1.0... Works fine.
Thanks for the lesson.

I don't get why you'd paint that, though?

Wouldn't that mess up the gain?


Elite Screens 'Designers Cut' is very cheap, CineGrey 5D is $173 for 118" 2.40:1, frame is just a couple of bucks in my local woodyard or w.e.

It'd be the same gain as your blackout cloth, but also gray in favor of my wife's taste from the start, no need to paint anything.

White could be troublesome, but it would sure be up for consideration if it yields that much of a better image.


I ordered Carlofet's gray pack and white pack for samples, not sure what gains the white pack is, if you know you could share.


I think a good lesson for me is just firing up that JVC and see what kind of brightness to expect.

I have a really nice deal, I'm allowed to open up the box and try it out, as long as I don't put 20 hours on the lamp.

Free return, no loss in funds for unboxing and testing.

I'll have my samples ready by the time the projector is delivered.
 

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Generally speaking, aesthetically, white screens always look better in rooms than darker gray screens just from aesthetics. That is my opinion though, I'm not a decorator, to me gray screens look ugly. If you have an aesthetics issue though, you need an electric screen. Electric screens are much much better for that.

CineGrey 5D is a decent material, I have seen it both in a showroom and had a full-sized sample at home I've used (2'x2' I got from a dealer). I also have the little mini-sample packs you get on Amazon, those aren't big enough to use though, cannot tell much. The thing I don't like about gray is the way it looks just sitting there when the projector is turned off. I believe the CineGrey 5D is 1.0 gain, not 1.5, as with the others, mostly all lies.

You can probably still get the Elite sample pack online if you want to see the materials.

The ST 1.3 gain DIY material would be my pick. Dominic uses this, the only downside is it's always sold out and it's very fragile and easy to tear if you don't get it mounted correctly the first time.
 
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