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I'm back after a 12-15 year absense, so I need some help

1092 Views 9 Replies 5 Participants Last post by HDTimeShifter, Aug 6, 2009

HenryPercy

Discussion Starter · Jul 15, 2009

I currently have an old Dolby ProLogic HT setup using 4 speakers (i.e. a phantom front center channel). My main (front) speakers are older but fairly expense (and pretty good, I think) tower models, and the brand is no longer made.

I have ordered a Yamaha RX-V863 which of course has Dolby 5.1. Since I would have difficulty finding a sonically matched center channel speaker, is it possible to use Dolby 5.1 in a phantom front center channel mode until I can afford to replace all the speakers?

Thanks for any help. I've fallen pretty far behind the times in my knowledge of audio.

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ClarkeBar

· #2 · Jul 15, 2009

With most modern receivers, when you play any DD or DTS source and you have no CC, the center content will pass to the Fronts. But you should still get the rear surround as long as rear speakers are indicated in setup. So you should have in effect a Phantom mode even if none is listed in the Soundfield selections. You will be running basically a 4.0 system or 4.1 with a sub.

There are also Center channel speakers available with adjustable tweeter attenuators which help to blend with mismatched speaker sets. If you really like your current speakers you might want to go this route. Not the best way to go but certainly less expensive by far.

What are the speakers? Enquiring minds want to know.

If we can get an idea of speaker composition, we may be able to make an appropriate suggestion or two for a CC.

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HenryPercy

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 15, 2009

My main speakers are dbx 1a, which have a pretty usual design. Each cabinet has 4 10" woofers, 4 midrange speakers, and 4 tweeters. They also have a dedicated equalizer. The units are about 47" tall, so technically maybe not towers.

The sound is very open, smooth and detailed. Tests back in the day showed them to be very accurate. Bass is very taught and deep. I used an NHT One for the center for a while, but decided I liked it better in phantom mode. The NHT was a better match than a number of others I tried, but I don't remember what they were - KEF was one. I wish the NHT Super One had been available then - I think it might have had a closer tonal quality.

The rear surrounds are also NHT Ones.

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HenryPercy

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 15, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar /forum/post/16827706

With most modern receivers, when you play any DD or DTS source and you have no CC, the center content will pass to the Fronts.

I wonder if that would have the same effect as the phantom center in Pro Logic?

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ClarkeBar

· #5 · Jul 15, 2009

Then perhaps it is time to think about new speakers after all. I know it can be difficult to move on from speakers to which you've grown accustomed and appreciate for certain qualities. I love my Emerald 97s but would trade them out for PSB Synchronys any day. But a new speaker set with matching tonal qualities all around might suit you better in the long run. A quality subwoofer will replace all of those 10" Bass drivers quite effectively, at least for HT. Music might be a different consideration. I suspect the directionality of sound in HT will improve as well.

You didn't mention what your usage preferences are in terms of Music /HT ratio.

I believe the Yamaha will have any number of Soundfields and processing to achieve what you had with the Phantom Mode. It is all guided by speaker setup info with matrixing achieved virtually anywhere there are speakers using one Mode or another.

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sdurani

· #6 · Jul 15, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryPercy /forum/post/16827894

I wonder if that would have the same effect as the phantom center in Pro Logic?

It's exactly the same effect: centre channel content is reproduced equally by your front L/R speakers so it phantom images at the centre of the soundstage.

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mbyrnes

· #7 · Jul 15, 2009

Newer AVRs have room correction which might help get a center closer to matching your fronts. It's not magic but can help. Once you get your new AVR try putting the Super One back in and see what happens.

In the long run you may want to upgrade all of your speakers. The front three really need to be tonally matched for a seamless front sound stage.

You could always set up a 2 channel system in another room for music listening with your DBX speakers. They seem pretty awesome from what I could get off the internet. $3000 in the mid 80's was a LOT of money. It is a lot of money today!

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HenryPercy

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 15, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani /forum/post/16828181

It's exactly the same effect: centre channel content is reproduced equally by your front L/R speakers so it phantom images at the centre of the soundstage.

Thanks. That's very helpful to know.

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HenryPercy

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 15, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes /forum/post/16828968

Newer AVRs have room correction which might help get a center closer to matching your fronts. It's not magic but can help. Once you get your new AVR try putting the Super One back in and see what happens.

In the long run you may want to upgrade all of your speakers. The front three really need to be tonally matched for a seamless front sound stage.

You could always set up a 2 channel system in another room for music listening with your DBX speakers. They seem pretty awesome from what I could get off the internet. $3000 in the mid 80's was a LOT of money. It is a lot of money today!

In the long run I plan to upgrade all of the speakers, but not right now. I paid a lot less the $3000 for the dbxs, but they were still expensive. I love the sound, and they have plenty of kick too. But if I had foreseen the coming of the multichannel setups, I doubt if I would have bought them.

One thing I learned in my first attempt to supplement or replace them is that auditioning speakers is a lot of work. Before the internet, I read what few audio magazines were available and then drove 50 miles in various directions listening to speakers, and bringing home the ones I liked best. Most were in the range of $1000 per pair. I ultimately returned all of them except for a pair of NHT Ones (used in a different room) a NHT 10" powered subwoofer, and the Super One.

Somewhat to my surprise, the NHT sub didn't compare to the dbxs. The dbxs played much lower, cleaner, and louder.

At least things are now much easier to learn about with the internet. BTW, I use my system about equally for music and DVDs, but I don't usually watch movies with a lot of car chases, crashing and banging, etc. OTOH, a lot of music has very deep bass, the quality of which varies significantly with the speakers. But I'm sure you guys know all this.

I really appreciate the replies. Looks like I found a great forum.

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HDTimeShifter

· #10 · Aug 6, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryPercy /forum/post/16827877

My main speakers are dbx 1a, which have a pretty usual design. Each cabinet has 4 10" woofers, 4 midrange speakers, and 4 tweeters. They also have a dedicated equalizer. The units are about 47" tall, so technically maybe not towers.

The sound is very open, smooth and detailed. Tests back in the day showed them to be very accurate. Bass is very taught and deep.

I remember when these came out. They were revolutionary at the time - almost perfect omni-wave pattern across the room. I wouldn't call them "usual design" as most speakers at the time only had 2-3 forward facing active drivers, Bose being the exception, but I never liked Bose's muddy sound quality. The best quality of the dbx was the dispersion where it didn't matter where you were in the room and yet hear good balanced stereo imaging. These were the closest thing to a multi-speaker setup out of only 2 speakers. My only complaint was that they seemed overly bright.

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