To use digital cable you have to use the set-top box as tuner, and change channels from the PC with an IR blaster or serial cable. You connect the set-top box to your capture card with S-Video or composite instead of coax. Note that I don't know how easily MCE handles channel changes with IR or serial because I don't use it, but other programs like Sage handle it fine so I can only assume MCE does; someone who uses MCE can perhaps let you know.
Im flippin' lost.. Digital Cable + tuner??
I've been looking into this and have gotten pretty confused in the process - so I ask you to give it to me in black and white 
I have time warner digital cable. I am building a HTPC (having MCE05 in mind), but I cant find out if/how I can tune Digital Cable with MCE. I know I could just plug the cable into the tuner on the PC and get the normal channels, but there are other channels that I am interested in (above 100). I understand HD is an issue, especially encrypted, so leave that out of the equation for now.
THanks
Jeff
I have time warner digital cable. I am building a HTPC (having MCE05 in mind), but I cant find out if/how I can tune Digital Cable with MCE. I know I could just plug the cable into the tuner on the PC and get the normal channels, but there are other channels that I am interested in (above 100). I understand HD is an issue, especially encrypted, so leave that out of the equation for now.
THanks
Jeff
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So I need two STBs to use the dual tuner feature...thats great...sigh
and a 3rd tuner to get HD, but then its OTA only...another sigh....
I've heard that MCE will record the HD but only in standard def. I dont think this is going to work for my digital tv because when you hook up to the analog output of the cable box, the HD channels dont even tune on our monitor.
When is someone coming out with a pc tuner that will do digital tv?
and a 3rd tuner to get HD, but then its OTA only...another sigh....
I've heard that MCE will record the HD but only in standard def. I dont think this is going to work for my digital tv because when you hook up to the analog output of the cable box, the HD channels dont even tune on our monitor.
When is someone coming out with a pc tuner that will do digital tv?
In theory, cable companies should start supporting cable cards (some do already). This card will allow DTVs to be used without a cable box. Instead, you plug the card in, and you're off just like an analog cable-ready TV is today. Even encrypted content like HBO will work. Unfortunately, the card is only one way, so no guide or on demand programming from your remote. The card is very similar to a laptop PC card. I'm sure there will be piracy concerns, but I don't see why a vendor couldn't make a PCI card that accepted one of these cable cards. Then, we could use the PC as our tuner. HD content may still be an issue without PCI express.
I've been struggling with a similar issue. I would love to get my digital cable signal into my HTPC so I can use dScaler on it. However, it's too much of a pain to switch around the HD content. As a result, I mostly end up watching DVDs and HD on my 100" screen. Regular TV doesn't look too good.
I've been struggling with a similar issue. I would love to get my digital cable signal into my HTPC so I can use dScaler on it. However, it's too much of a pain to switch around the HD content. As a result, I mostly end up watching DVDs and HD on my 100" screen. Regular TV doesn't look too good.
That would be nice - It would be inspiring to even hear of a company/cable provider that has this in the works. I wonder if Scientific Atlanta would take a shot at this? Anyone have any inside scoop?
Jeff
Jeff
The latest Home Theater magazine had a list of cable companies that support cable cards. I don't have the mag handy, or I would post it. I remember Comcast was one of them. When I get home, I can get the list.
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Appologies if this sounds harsh, but you're living in dreamland if you think well see a PC card with CableCard support any time soon, if ever.
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Actually it's compressed already so there are no bandwidth issues, compressed HD is about 20-40Mbps or about 4-8MB/sec.
| Originally posted by godavego In theory, cable companies should start supporting cable cards (some do already). This card will allow DTVs to be used without a cable box. Instead, you plug the card in, and you're off just like an analog cable-ready TV is today. Even encrypted content like HBO will work. |
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| Unfortunately, the card is only one way, so no guide or on demand programming from your remote. The card is very similar to a laptop PC card. I'm sure there will be piracy concerns, but I don't see why a vendor couldn't make a PCI card that accepted one of these cable cards. Then, we could use the PC as our tuner. HD content may still be an issue without PCI express. |
Just for the record I've done the research on time warner... ALL digital channels and ALL HD channels they deliver are encrypted.
Ultra lame... I might just get an over the air antenna for HD. Oddly enough, where I'm at the over the air gets more HD channels than the standard delivery from Time Warner.
Oh and not to mention the digital package costs like 10 bux a month, plust 10 bux a month PER decoder box, plus 1 dollar/month per remote control.
GRRRR.
Ultra lame... I might just get an over the air antenna for HD. Oddly enough, where I'm at the over the air gets more HD channels than the standard delivery from Time Warner.
Oh and not to mention the digital package costs like 10 bux a month, plust 10 bux a month PER decoder box, plus 1 dollar/month per remote control.
GRRRR.
I'm saying Time Warner, but I keep forgetting that we are now under Brighthouse Networks. If they are ALL encrypted, that would mean that I would be analog for 1-99ish, digital box for 100+ and cable HD..then an HD tuner for OTA HD?? Can it get more botched than that???
stanger89,
Like I said, there will be piracy issues with a PC card. I'm certainly not naive to think content providers would provide a way to get their precious content into a PC without a fight. However, that doesn't mean that like the cassette tape and the VCR, it won't happen sometime -- but not anytime soon.
Then again, what's the difference between forcing cable companies to enable the firewire connection out of the cable box (or DTV with cable card) and a PC card? Either way, you can get unencrypted content into a PC for recording. Whether the content providers like it or not, people will be able to record their stuff. The only way to stop is to not broadcast it.
Like I said, there will be piracy issues with a PC card. I'm certainly not naive to think content providers would provide a way to get their precious content into a PC without a fight. However, that doesn't mean that like the cassette tape and the VCR, it won't happen sometime -- but not anytime soon.
Then again, what's the difference between forcing cable companies to enable the firewire connection out of the cable box (or DTV with cable card) and a PC card? Either way, you can get unencrypted content into a PC for recording. Whether the content providers like it or not, people will be able to record their stuff. The only way to stop is to not broadcast it.
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Well it's been years that DBS satellite has been around and all the hardware to capture it in a PC exists (even encrypted content). You can do it in Europe, but the providers here (Dish, DirecTV) have made a perposeful effort to make it such that we can't use the existing hardware.
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Uh, there's no difference between firewire and QAM cards that are available. The thing you're missing is that CableCard is what allows access to the encrypted content. A CableCard PC card would allow access to all the encrypted content you are subscribed to, that is the difference.
My understanding is that based on the CableCard spec, it's nearly, if not completely, impossible to get a PC card CableCard compliant.
| Originally posted by godavego stanger89, Like I said, there will be piracy issues with a PC card. I'm certainly not naive to think content providers would provide a way to get their precious content into a PC without a fight. However, that doesn't mean that like the cassette tape and the VCR, it won't happen sometime -- but not anytime soon. |
Well it's been years that DBS satellite has been around and all the hardware to capture it in a PC exists (even encrypted content). You can do it in Europe, but the providers here (Dish, DirecTV) have made a perposeful effort to make it such that we can't use the existing hardware.
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| Then again, what's the difference between forcing cable companies to enable the firewire connection out of the cable box (or DTV with cable card) and a PC card? Either way, you can get unencrypted content into a PC for recording. |
My understanding is that based on the CableCard spec, it's nearly, if not completely, impossible to get a PC card CableCard compliant.
Hell if they would just release the cards, I am sure someone will pick them up and make a little device which will either fit in the back of the PC in a slot or in the front where our floppies used to go, which could plug into either a firewire or usb port or even use our no longer needed parrellel ports to gain the information from it. As far as it not being compatible with the pc card, from what I have seen they aren't much different, maybe in spec's but not in interfaces. Maybe it will be something softare related which will make them interoperable.
Since we are on the subject of Digital Cable, can anyone here tell me the exact benefit you get from it besides having all those channels you won't watch anyway? I had Digital Cable for years and I finally decided to cancel it because 1. I didn't watch most of the channels, and 2. I really didn't notice any extreme quality increase over standard cable.
Now that I don't have a STB, I am thinking of getting a HD box.
Now that I don't have a STB, I am thinking of getting a HD box.
If you want any movie channels or PPV support from your cable company, you almost have to subscribe to digital cable. If you just watch networks, in many places you dont even need to have cable at all with the right setup. But cable has gotten to the point that if you want anything but the most basic programming, digital cable is the only wat to get it from a cable company. Why do you think DBS sat. service has gotten so popular in teh last few years?
O.K., can we get back to the original question. I am trying to decide between a DVR recorder and an HTPC box. I have an HD DirecTV, OTA HD, and an Onkyo Surround Sound system. All hooked up to a Hitachi 51" TV.
I currently get all networks in HD (when broadcast), and am getting really spoiled. Right now only HD HBO from DirecTV. I would LOVE to get some DVR functionality, mostly timeshifting HD content received over my OTA antenna, and recording regular definition channels from DirecTV. I'd also like to record one program while watching something else (Watch OTA, record DirecTV). Some of these I want to burn on DVD for the kids (not HD). I also read that upscaling DVD or regular definition signals works well with a PC. I just don't see spending $1000 for an HD Tivo, and I can't see how I would get this functionality in a regular DVR. I also think it is a benefit to be able to upgrade individual components in a PC instead of being stuck with a DVR - even one with a big Hard Disk.
So, I think this is what I need. I'll get an OTA Tuner card that is HD capable. I'll feed the output from the DirecTV receiver to a Capture card. I'll use an IR blaster with my DirecTV receiver. Sounds basic, but I do have some questions...
- My current hookup from my DirecTV HD receiver is via DVI. Does a tuner card provide this?
- I assume there is one connection from the PC to the TV. How is the feeds from the capture card and OTA tuner card combined?
- How would I hook up my Surround Sound System?
- Since this will all be controlled through a PC; I was wondering if most users here keep their PC on all the time since it does take some time to power-up.
- What is the failure rate on components. Seems like the Hard Disk would be the most problematic (my laptops HD crashed last week)
I apologize for these questions if they sound simple. I read through some of the FAQs (some of these don't work anymore) and threads. I would also appreciate any links or suggestions on components. I have build a couple of PCs before (O.K., that was a few years ago, but it hasn't changed much), and am willing to spend in the $1200 - $1500 range.
Thanks.
I currently get all networks in HD (when broadcast), and am getting really spoiled. Right now only HD HBO from DirecTV. I would LOVE to get some DVR functionality, mostly timeshifting HD content received over my OTA antenna, and recording regular definition channels from DirecTV. I'd also like to record one program while watching something else (Watch OTA, record DirecTV). Some of these I want to burn on DVD for the kids (not HD). I also read that upscaling DVD or regular definition signals works well with a PC. I just don't see spending $1000 for an HD Tivo, and I can't see how I would get this functionality in a regular DVR. I also think it is a benefit to be able to upgrade individual components in a PC instead of being stuck with a DVR - even one with a big Hard Disk.
So, I think this is what I need. I'll get an OTA Tuner card that is HD capable. I'll feed the output from the DirecTV receiver to a Capture card. I'll use an IR blaster with my DirecTV receiver. Sounds basic, but I do have some questions...
- My current hookup from my DirecTV HD receiver is via DVI. Does a tuner card provide this?
- I assume there is one connection from the PC to the TV. How is the feeds from the capture card and OTA tuner card combined?
- How would I hook up my Surround Sound System?
- Since this will all be controlled through a PC; I was wondering if most users here keep their PC on all the time since it does take some time to power-up.
- What is the failure rate on components. Seems like the Hard Disk would be the most problematic (my laptops HD crashed last week)
I apologize for these questions if they sound simple. I read through some of the FAQs (some of these don't work anymore) and threads. I would also appreciate any links or suggestions on components. I have build a couple of PCs before (O.K., that was a few years ago, but it hasn't changed much), and am willing to spend in the $1200 - $1500 range.
Thanks.
afaik, there is no way to get any hd content into a computer except for OTA. any digital output for HDTV from a cable box or direct tv is required to be encrypted and protected (i.e. HDCP). unless the receiving display is also HDCP compliant, the output will be limited to 720x480. i think some of the early adopters of plasma and other devices are feeling this pinch, but most new tvs that have dvi or firewire are HDCP compliant.
the 'analog hole' (component) is about the only potential exception, as that signal cannot be encrypted. however, i think it is illegal to create a device or tuner that can receive HD signals in through analog component. so as Sergie mentioned, you are pretty much limited to s-video from your cable or DBS service. gotta love the DMCA act.
the 'analog hole' (component) is about the only potential exception, as that signal cannot be encrypted. however, i think it is illegal to create a device or tuner that can receive HD signals in through analog component. so as Sergie mentioned, you are pretty much limited to s-video from your cable or DBS service. gotta love the DMCA act.
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elGato is supporting Common Interface cards for Europe with their PVRs. I wouldn't be surprised to see a US cable card product next year.
| My understanding is that based on the CableCard spec, it's nearly, if not completely, impossible to get a PC card CableCard compliant. |
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Are you meaning a *recording device*? I don't know the laws myself, but we have plenty of TVs that can receive HD signals through a component cable.
If a recording device is what you DO mean, that is really bad if that is law, not that I hadn't heard about it before. I'd like to see where specifically it is law, if somebody knows.
Can I assume that this is why we don't see any devices with component-in for the computer?
Are there any devices for the computer with VGA-in? Yes, it would be analog, but if we had this we could always capture HDTV that way, through a component->VGA box->computer (which would encode the HD to MPEG2 or the like). The only problem here is that compressing an uncompressed (albeit, analog) HDTV singal like that in realtime would be very processor-intensive, wouldn't it?
| however, i think it is illegal to create a device or tuner that can receive HD signals in through analog component. |
If a recording device is what you DO mean, that is really bad if that is law, not that I hadn't heard about it before. I'd like to see where specifically it is law, if somebody knows.
Can I assume that this is why we don't see any devices with component-in for the computer?
Are there any devices for the computer with VGA-in? Yes, it would be analog, but if we had this we could always capture HDTV that way, through a component->VGA box->computer (which would encode the HD to MPEG2 or the like). The only problem here is that compressing an uncompressed (albeit, analog) HDTV singal like that in realtime would be very processor-intensive, wouldn't it?
To answer the original question, MCE 2005 will
- record from your cable or sat box over composite or S-video. It will control the receiver box via IR emitter, which comes with the MCE remote (available from NewEgg). Recordings are in standard DVD resolution. You do get all channels.
- record OTA HDTV via an HDTV card. Currently the ATI HDTV Wonder and vbox cards have drivers available for MCE. Recordings are in full HDTV resolution.
- record from your cable or sat box over composite or S-video. It will control the receiver box via IR emitter, which comes with the MCE remote (available from NewEgg). Recordings are in standard DVD resolution. You do get all channels.
- record OTA HDTV via an HDTV card. Currently the ATI HDTV Wonder and vbox cards have drivers available for MCE. Recordings are in full HDTV resolution.
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No, AFIAK it's perfectly legal. In fact there is alread one device that records HD Component, it's a W-VHS deck IIRC, it records analog HD component in analog format on a special tape. Not really helpful to us, but shows it's legal.
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The reason is that it's very hard to capture video at HD resolutions, make that it's really expensive.
Uncompressed HD is approximately 1.5Gbps, or about 150% of the PCI bus' theoretical bandwidth. Also uncompressed HD is about 600GB/hour so storing it is completely impractical.
To get around the bandwidth/storage issues it's necessary to encode the video, but at 6x the resolution of SD, it's far to much for current PCs to do in software in realtime, and no one has made a cheap HD MPEG 2 encoder (ala the Conexant CX23416) yet.
It is possible to capture component though. To do it now you need:
HD Component to HD-SDI converter (~$1000)
HD-SDI capture card (~$1000)
PCI-X/64bit PCI board and CPU(s) (expensive)
Massive/Fast RAID array (expensive)
So it can be done, but not for under about $5000. And realtime hardware MPEG encoders exist too (HDTVExpress) but that's about $20000 last time I checked.
So it's possible to capture HD component, but until someone releases a cheap MPEG2/4/WM9 encoder chip, we won't see analog HD capture on a PC.
| Originally posted by mmortal03 If a recording device is what you DO mean, that is really bad if that is law, not that I hadn't heard about it before. I'd like to see where specifically it is law, if somebody knows. |
No, AFIAK it's perfectly legal. In fact there is alread one device that records HD Component, it's a W-VHS deck IIRC, it records analog HD component in analog format on a special tape. Not really helpful to us, but shows it's legal.
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| Can I assume that this is why we don't see any devices with component-in for the computer? |
Uncompressed HD is approximately 1.5Gbps, or about 150% of the PCI bus' theoretical bandwidth. Also uncompressed HD is about 600GB/hour so storing it is completely impractical.
To get around the bandwidth/storage issues it's necessary to encode the video, but at 6x the resolution of SD, it's far to much for current PCs to do in software in realtime, and no one has made a cheap HD MPEG 2 encoder (ala the Conexant CX23416) yet.
It is possible to capture component though. To do it now you need:
HD Component to HD-SDI converter (~$1000)
HD-SDI capture card (~$1000)
PCI-X/64bit PCI board and CPU(s) (expensive)
Massive/Fast RAID array (expensive)
So it can be done, but not for under about $5000. And realtime hardware MPEG encoders exist too (HDTVExpress) but that's about $20000 last time I checked.
So it's possible to capture HD component, but until someone releases a cheap MPEG2/4/WM9 encoder chip, we won't see analog HD capture on a PC.
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