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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, I'm assuming this thread is for all HDTV displays since Flat Panel probably means LCD, Plasma, etc and FP means Front Projection. So I can only assume that for some reason RP was left out since there has to be a thread where all display types can be compared.


I had a very bad experience at Best Buy with one of the most obnoxious, smart alec managers that swore 70-80" displays were tens of thousands of dollars and that DLP was dead.


His whole criteria for a "good display" was one that looked good in direct sunlight. Of course, all the tv's on display were cranked so far into saturation, it was hard to take.


FYI, I ran a 11.5' FP GE NTSC years ago onto a wall in my house and I loved it. Of course, the room had to be basically a photographic dark room which really sucked, but it still was visceral.


I would say that 11.5' is actually "big enough" but I don't think we're there yet.


I must say I was spoiled by the convenience of a RP 52" Pioneer NTSC which I bought new 15 years ago and still has the ability to burn my eyes with brightness. So I'm not fully in either Flat Panel or Front Proejction's camps.


Any thoughts?


Oh, forgot to mention (obviously) that I an not rich so a 110" plasma is too expensive for me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt /forum/post/16990896


First, I'm assuming this thread is for all HDTV displays since Flat Panel probably means LCD, Plasma, etc and FP means Front Projection. So I can only assume that for some reason RP was left out since there has to be a thread where all display types can be compared.


I had a very bad experience at Best Buy with one of the most obnoxious, smart alec managers that swore 70-80" displays were tens of thousands of dollars and that DLP was dead.


His whole criteria for a "good display" was one that looked good in direct sunlight. Of course, all the tv's on display were cranked so far into saturation, it was hard to take.


FYI, I ran a 11.5' FP GE NTSC years ago onto a wall in my house and I loved it. Of course, the room had to be basically a photographic dark room which really sucked, but it still was visceral.


I would say that 11.5' is actually "big enough" but I don't think we're there yet.


I must say I was spoiled by the convenience of a RP 52" Pioneer NTSC which I bought new 15 years ago and still has the ability to burn my eyes with brightness. So I'm not fully in either Flat Panel or Front Proejction's camps.


Any thoughts?


Oh, forgot to mention (obviously) that I an not rich so a 110" plasma is too expensive for me.

As much as I dislike most of the sales monkeys at BB, I have to say that this time some of what they say is true. Large 70+" flat panel TV's are very expensive, and not really cost effective. Panasonic makes the largest flat screen at 150", but they have sizes of 103", 80" and the popular 65"er. Pricing has come down, but still not where mere mortals can participate. If you want that large of a screen size, my best advice is to go Projector. There's a great Forum on here, and pay close attention to the new JVC Front Projector.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt /forum/post/16991855


Is there a Front Projector forum? Which one has the JVC?

No offense, but are you new to computing?


On AVS, click "Forums", then scroll down to "Hi-End Projectors $3000 USD MSRP & Up". You will then see many threads to investigate. I suggest you try the "JVC RS2" Thread. Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I must confess, for me, the forum categories on this site are counter intuitive.


I read the "Digital Hi-End Projectors" thread description and found it unclear and confusing.


But thank you very much for the model number!


It looks like a very good unit however, it is far beyond my price range these days. Further, my current home which I will be stuck in for the foreseeable future has a spot for a 70-80" picture which is achievable for a non-FP display. (FP is really a last resort and only a choice when a really big picture is "on the table."


Thanks again,

Tom
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt /forum/post/16992756


I must confess, for me, the forum categories on this site are counter intuitive.


I read the "Digital Hi-End Projectors" thread description and found it unclear and confusing.


But thank you very much for the model number!


It looks like a very good unit however, it is far beyond my price range these days. Further, my current home which I will be stuck in for the foreseeable future has a spot for a 70-80" picture which is achievable for a non-FP display. (FP is really a last resort and only a choice when a really big picture is "on the table."


Thanks again,

Tom

If the front projector is too expensive, I have another option for you to consider. On the RPTV Forum section there is a thread titled "Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV". Read over it and pay attention to Mr. Bob, as I consider him an expert in CRT RPTV's. This guy knows his stuff.


The gist of the thread that there are these very high end CRT RPTV's capable of still delivering the most beautiful PQ once they have a thorough lens cleaning and a professional calibration. Not just anyone can perform these tasks, but there are a few techs still out there that can, and Mr. Bob would be first on my list. The Pioneer Elites and the Mitsubishi Diamond Series were probably the very best examples of CRT RPTV. Mr. Bob himself owns a 73"er. As the country has been going crazy over flat panels, a lot of folks have been selling these TV's for pennies on the dollar just to get them out of the house. These are rather large and heavy TV's, but once put in place who moves them around anyway?


This just may be the answer to your problem, as it allows you to purchase a used large screen CRT RPTV for a maybe $400-$600, and then have it tweaked to perfection for around $400-$500, and you're setup w/a beautiful Home Theater TV for the next 7-10 years.
 

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Outside front projection you're choice is basically a 73" Mitsubishiu DLP or they did release an 82" DLP($5k MSRP). Beyond this, yeah you'd pretty much have to be rich. BTW, front projection pretty much needs a dark environment if you want a really good picture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Actually, I was just checking Craigslist and I think used will be the way I will go.


Locally I found the 70" JVC for $2000 and 3 different 65" including a Mitsu. ranging from $400-800.


I like the JVC because it has IEEE-1394 input but it is 3-4X the money for what, 5" and Firewire? Probably can't justify that.


I had a room full of Advent 7' Front Projectors (the original). At one point I think I had 3 of them. It was a service man's dream - it had about 15 replaceable circuit boards (they plugged into a "mainframe") which coincided with a circuit block diagram. Then I got some of the newer Advents in the neat walnut case. Then a Zenith and then a GE front projector. I lusted after a Sony but never got one. Runco was out there, but way out there!


I guess I could do a used swap - sell my Pioneer 52" NTSC for what.... $100-200??? and get a used CRT RP. The only thing I don't like is that the Pioneer had a full case where you could pile components on top of it to the ceiling(!) So I would have a logistic problem to solve with one of these newer units.
 

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Remember that CRT RPTVs are analog displays. You will not satisfy the requirements for the HDCP system used for Blu-Ray disks or Premium Cable Programming unless you have a digital display with an HDMI interface that has HDCP support.


Nor will the NTSC tuner on such a set ever receive anything again. That means that all such analog displays must use ATSC tuners with analog component video outputs for older analog HDTVs. That is an example of a class of device no longer being manufactured.


If you are determined to go the route of an analog HDTV, one of your available alternatives is using a PC with and HDTV tuner as your signal source. You can find an HDTV tuner here:

http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/


...you can check the HTPC Forum here at AVS for tips on using that same PC as a playback device for Blu-Ray and DVD with analog HD outputs. I did so for years before switching to conventional disk players and modern digital HDTVs. I use PCs all day long in my job, I didn't want to maintain another and tweek it and backup the data just so I could watch various forms of HD video. But HTPCs CAN be made to work.
 

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6Volt, what Gary says is true, but if you go to the Post #1 by Mr. Bob, on Page #1 (at the end his post), of the "Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV", there is a "fix" for those really older RPTV's that did not come w/DVI or HDMI. If I were to go the "used" CRT RPTV route, I would only consider the very high-end models that were made from 2002 to the end of production. In fact, I'd prefer the last model year that incorporated the highest level of CRT video tech. Also, the high-end models had better lenses and other features that make the "used" route a better deal. Mr. Bob can help you choose which of these models were the best of the best, but I know the Pioneer Elites and Mits Diamond Series were at the top.
 

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I'll mention that I am an owner of a 1st generation HD Fury. I bought it for my existing older front projector with it's VGA input. But I did NOT find it a satisfactory way to watch HDCP protected sources, it had many of the same features (or lack of features) that irritated me about HTPCs.


Truthfully even HD digital displays and real HDCP support gets irritating sometimes. Like when your new NetFlix Blu-Ray disk refuses to play until you connect your PS3 via broadband and update the firmware.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I totally forgot about all this nonsense.


IEEE-1394 (FW) was the digital interface the FCC specified in the HDTV spec.


How that got twisted into the industry HDMI is beyond me.


I'm sure the FCC could have withheld approvals for components that did not have and support a FW interface.


But they didn't.


BTW, an OTA tuner would interface with FW, right? since that is the only applicable digital spec for OTA broadcasters being that 5c broadcast flag was shot down.


Its like when EPA and Dept. of Agriculture Regs conflict - the DoAg runs away and hides while the farmer gets crusified for listening to the DoAg.


Also like Fair Use yet DCMA prohibits the construction of any device that would allow that to be exercised.
 

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6Volt, my brother-in-law has a Mits Diamond 55" CRT RPTV he bought back in early January 2003 and it has a beautiful picture. They use DirectTV, get OAR, play BluRay, and stream video movies from Netflix via a laptop on a regular basis. This pretty much covers about everything 99.9% of TV viewers could ever want. I think it's most important you buy a "high-end" used Mits or Pioneer Elite or Runco, etc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt /forum/post/17000084


I totally forgot about all this nonsense.


-snip-


BTW, an OTA tuner would interface with FW, right? since that is the only applicable digital spec for OTA broadcasters being that 5c broadcast flag was shot down.


-snip-

The current list of presently available HD Set Top Boxes is in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095


A bare few solutions support Firewire, almost all are HDMI.


There are still a few with analog interfaces but all support the copy protection schemes that in fact ARE PRESENTLY IMPLEMENTED in many if not all DSS and cable boxes. The content owner is the party that determines the copy protect setting. For example I sometimes don't get to archive DVD copies of the material in my DirecTiVo or TiVo HD because HBO or some other Premium Channel has set the copy protection ON. But I can typically take a lower quality analog VHS copy even with the CP bits set. The idea is the content owner decides if a copy can be made, and not you.


You need to decide what video sources interest you and then see if you can find a current production set top box for that in the thread above, with an analog interface.


Meanwhile if you are not wanting to go the HTPC route or use an HD Fury HDMI-to-VGA or HDMI-to-Component Video solution (and I don't like either alternative myself) then best go after a digital display. You can still buy a DVD player with analog video outputs, but if you want Blu-Ray or even upscaling DVD playback, you need a digital display with HDCP support.
 

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73" DLPs are under $1,600 (3D Capable and 120Hz), so the guy didn't really know what he was talking about. 82" DLP is under $4,000.


Your best option for over 80" is a front projection + Screen Innovations "Black Diamond II" screen which is designed for ambient light.
 

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Those look like nice sets. But for about $4K you can also get a 120Hz DLP front projector and a screen. That would allow you to have a 120" or larger image, but only in near darkness.


If you go with the DLP, remember that these RPTVs have Fresnel lenses that give narrow viewing angles, even more so than LCD panels. Of course if your room seating is already set up for an older RPTV, thats no concern.
 
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