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Discussion Starter #1
So as some of you know, I built a couple dual opposed AV15H subwoofers a few years back (two ~115L boxes with 2 AV15H drivers in each with a QSC RMX-5050 amp driving it and a DCX2496). I had incorporated a PB13 in sealed tune into the mix as I didn't want to get rid of it. Fast forward a couple years later, and I recently won an SVS SB13 Ultra sealed sub (1000 watt DSP amp, ~18" cubed).


I also recently picked up an Intergra DHC80.3 which has Audyssey XT32 and SubEQ, and I also purchased a rack style 2 x 2400 watt x 4ohm amp from Funk Audio to replace my noisy QSC RMX-5050 (even modded the fan noise drove me insane). The amp uses Alldsp.com software for EQ, and is somewhat similar to MiniDSP software in functionality.












I setup my 2 AV15H subs on the Sub 1 and Sub 2 preouts on the 80.3, and calibrated them both in "2 CH" (i.e., had Audyssey calibrate each signal independently). I came up with this after playing around with the distance controls and crossing my Paradigm S2 bookshelves at 120Hz..




I've been trying to incorporate the SB13-Ultra (which is placed nearfield at the back of the room, vs the 2 AV15H subs which are located at the front flanking the Plasma and acting as "stands" for the S2's). Basically I'm using one of the RCA preouts for Sub 2 on the 80.3 (which already has Audyssey applied to it) and trying to see if I can use the DSP controls on the SVS sub (LPF, phase, room compensation, etc) to keep the FR as flat as possible.


But so far no luck. Any hints as to how I can incorporate this puppy in the best way possible to gain some headroom while improving or at worst not hurting the FR?


Given the response I'm getting, is this just a fruitless exercise? Figured I'd add it in to gain as much headroom as possible. Even though I don't really need it in a ~1800 cubic foot family room.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Not yet. I was considering using a XLR Y Cable to hook up the front 2 DIY's as "1" subwoofer, then using the second channel for the SVS SB13. I was wondering, however, if that would end up causing issues with the SB13 possibly being the "weakest" link in the chain?


One thing I hate about Audyssey Equipped processors, is that none of them allow you to save 1 or 2 sessions. I.e., I can't just revert back to the previous Audyssey session and have to rerun it. I think, anyhow!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Tried using the Y-Cable to treat the front subs as one, and the SVS sub was on the 2nd channel and reran Aud XT32. It just made things much worse, and cut off the response at 15Hz. So went back to the way it was before (and of course don't have as good a response as I did the first time around!).


I wish I recall the settings I had on my PB13 in sealed mode back when I used it to fill in the FR. Everything I do now just seems to cause cancellation issues in the FR. Hmmm... may be more trouble than it's worth.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Started to do that, but as soon as I inserted the 3rd nearfield sub into the mix everything went wonky and there seemed to be cancellations all over the place. My try again at some future date. I'm sick of the 20-25 minutes it takes every time I have to rerun Audyssey because I can't save some presets.


It's a wonder someone hasn't thought of allowing the saving of at least the previous Audyssey calibration, though maybe you can do it with the "Pro" calibration version.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics#post_22746451


Started to do that, but as soon as I inserted the 3rd nearfield sub into the mix everything went wonky and there seemed to be cancellations all over the place. My try again at some future date. I'm sick of the 20-25 minutes it takes every time I have to rerun Audyssey because I can't save some presets.

It's a wonder someone hasn't thought of allowing the saving of at least the previous Audyssey calibration, though maybe you can do it with the "Pro" calibration version.

You can save different calibrations with the Pro Audyssey kit.


I think a Pro calibration is worth it if you listen to a lot of music, can't say I heard much of a difference with movies though.
 

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Amp looks really classy. No annoying logos...and proper speaker connectors on the back.


Also, per the alldsp website it looks like they offer control software for both OSX-based machines and other stuff.


Interesting product.
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics#post_22746436


With your eq capability, can't you use REW and eq each sub. Then run xt32?

Sucks you can't recall with audessay

BTW, for the next session where I get some free time to run REW, what is the best way to dial in 3 subs (positions are what they are and can't be moved)? Dial each one as flat as possible individually and then together to see where the cancellations occur before running Aud XT32?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics#post_22748319


Tell me more about that Funk Audio rack amp. Price?

Price was ~$1700, so certainly not inexpensive and likely won't be a huge product for the DIY crowd (isn't meant to compete with the iNukes of the world for instance). I'm not even sure Nathan is going to offer it to people who have not ordered his subs. We were exchanging emails back early last year if I recall and he mentioned he was thinking of building some of these if I was interested. He finally started ordering the parts/supplies back in April/May if I recall, so it was a long time waiting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics#post_22750239


Amp looks really classy. No annoying logos...and proper speaker connectors on the back.

Also, per the alldsp website it looks like they offer control software for both OSX-based machines and other stuff.

Interesting product.

Yeah, the logo is sweet, basically just etched into the aluminum face with no colours.


You can download the software at the alldsp.com website and look at a "demo" mode for the 1800B to see the kinds of adjustments it has. Well, the UI anyhow. Unfortunately it won't let you select anything without a password for some reason, even in Demo mode. The password Nathan gave me seems specific to the unit I have. I'll upload some more pics of the interface when I get a chance.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here's what I was hoping to achieve going with the Funk Amp:


1. Eliminate the fan noise

2. Put a nicer looking component on the rack vs the QSC (stupid reason for some, but it is my family room!)

3. Gain some space on the rack by eliminating the QSC 5050 and DCX 2496 combo


All 3 were achieved, and I've sold the QSC and DCX so I'm happy. As for SQ, impossible for me to say I prefer the sound of one over the other. Pretty much the same in my opinion, except the noise floor (due to the fan noise) is heads and tails better on the Funk amp, so in fact from that perspective, the SQ is considerably better.


As for the Integra vs Marantz, honestly can't say I notice much if any difference in SQ. Aud XT32 compared to Aud MultiXT hasn't made any noticeable improvement in my room, which is why I had originally upgraded (numerous posts by individuals commenting on a "huge" improvement when they went to XT32, so I was curious). I didn't listen to music enough on the Marantz to say whether the Integra is an upgrade, but I am looking forward to being able to have Audyssey applied to 2.1 Channel stereo listening, which IIRC the Integra does while the Marantz doesn't.


The Marantz was a much cleaner/nicer looking face plate IMO. It was also a much cooler running unit, though as I understand it the Integra uses 140Watts vs 60 for the 7005, so this is understandable.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics/0_100#post_22750792


BTW, for the next session where I get some free time to run REW, what is the best way to dial in 3 subs (positions are what they are and can't be moved)? Dial each one as flat as possible individually and then together to see where the cancellations occur before running Aud XT32?

I've not found Audyssey to be very good at integrating subs and mains, but IMO the best way to do it if you're going to rely on Audyssey (or ARC, etc.) to do the mains/subs filtering is to start with the sub nearest the mains, and fold the other two subs in sequentially. One closest to the "main" sub first, and then the other. Use only level and delay at first. Individual EQ of each sub is tedious and IMO does not help as much as just getting the subs working together with level and phase/delay. Assuming all the subs are similarly capable, use global EQ only from 40Hz down, as that will maximize your efficiency in the "first mode" region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics/0_100#post_22750792


Price was ~$1700, so certainly not inexpensive and likely won't be a huge product for the DIY crowd (isn't meant to compete with the iNukes of the world for instance). I'm not even sure Nathan is going to offer it to people who have not ordered his subs.

That's not bad at all. It's about half the price of an ElectroVoice CPS 4.10 (which also has a pair of fans, though they're not IPR/Inuke-style screamers), and a lot cheaper than two Speakerpower Torpedo plates. Nathans amp does seem to lack the NRTL safety certification that both the EV and Speakerpower amps have, though.


I don't see a 12V trigger in, though. Are they auto-sensing or do you have to turn them on manually?
 

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Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics#post_22753331


I've not found Audyssey to be very good at integrating subs and mains, but IMO the best way to do it if you're going to rely on Audyssey (or ARC, etc.) to do the mains/subs filtering is to start with the sub nearest the mains, and fold the other two subs in sequentially. One closest to the "main" sub first, and then the other. Use only level and delay at first. Individual EQ of each sub is tedious and IMO does not help as much as just getting the subs working together with level and phase/delay. Assuming all the subs are similarly capable, use global EQ only from 40Hz down, as that will maximize your efficiency in the "first mode" region.

Will have to try that at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics#post_22753331


That's not bad at all. It's about half the price of an ElectroVoice CPS 4.10 (which also has a pair of fans, though they're not IPR/Inuke-style screamers), and a lot cheaper than two Speakerpower Torpedo plates. Nathans amp does seem to lack the NRTL safety certification that both the EV and Speakerpower amps have, though.

I don't see a 12V trigger in, though. Are they auto-sensing or do you have to turn them on manually?

I didn't think the price was that bad. But I believe some members scoffed at the idea when comparing to the pro-amps available at less than half the cost, etc. etc. It's less than 2 of these for instance ... http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore?page=shop.browse&category_id=17 , and I don't have to affix it to the sub.


Agreed, no safety cert which bugs me a bit. No 12V trigger, or for that matter, even a Power on/off switch. You basically have to plug both power cords in at the same time and leave on all the time. They have auto on/standby circuitry. Nathan mentioned for the next version he is going to go with 1 power cord vs 2 and a dedicated power on/off switch.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc  /t/1447491/implementing-a-third-sub-new-funk-audio-rack-amp-pics#post_22745857




I've been trying to incorporate the SB13-Ultra (which is placed nearfield at the back of the room, vs the 2 AV15H subs which are located at the front flanking the Plasma and acting as "stands" for the S2's). Basically I'm using one of the RCA preouts for Sub 2 on the 80.3 (which already has Audyssey applied to it) and trying to see if I can use the DSP controls on the SVS sub (LPF, phase, room compensation, etc) to keep the FR as flat as possible.

But so far no luck. Any hints as to how I can incorporate this puppy in the best way possible to gain some headroom while improving or at worst not hurting the FR?

Given the response I'm getting, is this just a fruitless exercise? Figured I'd add it in to gain as much headroom as possible. Even though I don't really need it in a ~1800 cubic foot family room.
I don't think it's a fruitless exercise at all...however it will take some time to integrate.

 

The gains in my mind would be the tactile feeling you would get with the SB13 nearfield. In my room, that is well worth the time spent trying to integrate. I run 2 FTW21 sealed cabs up front, and an FV15HP right behind my seating. The results of the nearfield ported sub is tremendous from a tactile feeling standpoint. Check out my sig.

 

The integration could take a lot of time, and you may have to rerun audyssey. As long as you have the equipment, it can be done.

 

Do you get a lot more tactile feel from the nearfield placement?
 

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I cross mine at 90 and run 3 db less than my ftws. Does you svs have a crossover function on the plate amp?


Have you tried it nearfield yet, or just contemplating? If you haven't yet, I'd just throw it in the mix uneqd and get an initial impression. I'd run at least 3 db less than your sealed so most of the sound is driven by them.
 
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