The sky goes from light to dark in the moment (or slightly after) the first time the white fonts appear on screen, right? The reason for that is the until the font appears for the first time, the whole scene is not very bright. So madVR tries to optimize for the limited brightness, to make the sky nicely bright. But then suddenly the font appears, and it's *MUCH* brighter than the rest of the sky. As a result, madVR has no choice than to adjust the tone mapping to account for the brighter font. An intelligent human being would say: Screw the font, continue to optimize for the sky. But madVR is a simple computer algo, so it can't possibly know if the font is very relevant or not. From madVR's view point, it *has* to optimize for the font because otherwise there'd be the risk of losing highlight detail. Consequently, the sky gets quite a bit darker, in that moment.The scene in predator should be in your sample case. On full film is right where the helicopter shows up and the sky goes from light to dark. I came by to say that the 100 target peak nits, 65% desat, 500 nits desat looks really good to me. I am getting the detail back with the pop still there for color so far from testing I've seen in motion tests.
I don't think there's much I can do about it. Actually, we were discussing maybe adjusting to brighter measurements quicker than currently. If we do that, the sky might turn darker quicker than now. Which might actually look worse in this scene. So we'll have to keep this Predator scene in mind.
I don't seem to be able to reproduce any "flash" here. Does the flash happen directly during the scene change? Is it the last frame of the previous scene which flashes, or the first frame of the following scene? And how would you describe the flash, if you step through the frames one by one. Is one frame much brighter than all the other frames? Or why does it look like a flash?See timecode above, it's in Pacific Rim, not Pacific Rim Uprising, the same scene I've used many times to test highlights and I reported it to flash with an earlier build, that's why I didn't provide more details. You have to rewind 10-15 secs before that to give the time to the measured peak to reset, otherwise you don't get the flash.
I'm more like 300-500, with 500 looking better to me than 300. But 400 might be an acceptable compromise. Which is about 200nits higher than the measured peak.I am thinking the same, I prefer a 300-400 limit based on the 2 posted comparisons.
I'd say 500-600. But I agree that the nits target doesn't seem to matter that much. The measured peak seems to be more important.One for today, I hope to have more free time tomorrow:
@378nits, clipping, reference
I would say I prefer a 400-500 limit here (but very close to 500), the nits target does not seem to matter.
What do you think?
Thanks for your feedback. FWIW, compared to the other users, 75% scaled to measured peak is a bit higher than average. Average seems to be around 65% so far.On latest test build. I am satisfied. Thanks madshi and others for this great work.
target nits: 130 nits
tone mapping curve: BT.2390
color tweaks for fire and explosions: High
highlight recovery strength: low
measure each fram's peak luminescence checked.
output video in HDR format: unchecked.
desat control: 75% scaled to measured peak
desat control- measured peak limit: 600 nits
Not sure if it's an optimal configuration for BT.709 content, but it should work fine, I guess.So I've been testing output to the JVC projector using the BT2020 colour space on the projector and madvr's basic settings that most people including Javs are using for the display settings/tone mapping settings and as a matter of interest I tested the playback of some normal BT709 blu-rays and these look surprisingly accurate to my untrained naked eye using the same settings. Can anyone tell me from their testing if normal blu-rays will show accurately using the BT2020 colour space on the projector with the BT2020 colour space and 2.4 power gamma curve selected in madvr due to the fact that the BT709 colour space effectively fits inside? My apologies if this is a silly question.
Unfortunately the log is somewhat incomplete. It starts 2 minutes after playback has started. Probably the long got shortened because it grew too big. Can you please redo it, and close the media player already like 10 seconds after playback has started? Also please zip the log before uploading, thanks.I am using Win 10, ver 1809. I have generated a debug log, please see the link below
My best guess is that when installing the latest test build, you might have accidently failed to replace the mvrSettings32/64.dll files, maybe because madVR was still running when you tried to overwrite the files? Please download the latest test build again and overwrite the files once more, with the "mad" tray icon application (madHcCtrl.exe) closed and no media player running.On my second issue where I do not get the Apply button if I want to test the new scale to peak options, I can confirm that all other controls work fine and I have only once instance of madVR with no other madVR files scattered around on my PC. Additionally, even if I reset to defaults, losing all profiles, I cannot have the scale to peak option to stick. It always reverts back to scale to 10000 nits!
Thanks. That's near to what the majority of users have voted for, so atm I think it will be 65%. Not completely sure on the limit yet, though.I didn't had too much time for testing but far on latest test build my preferences are
target nits: 250 nits
desat control: 60% scaled to measured peak
desat control- measured peak limit: 500 nits
Those settings works for me so far.
I like have a little bit more saturation but desat control: 65% scaled to measured peak also works and it gives you a little more highlights.
For the highlights/saturation balance my choice is often desat control- measured peak limit: target nits +300 mostly. If desat control- measured peak limit higher more saturation is added. Looks like orange or orange-like colors affected most but i see on red,yellow and green. For my eyes blue change is minimal. Skin tones also affected.
Also less saturation have good efect on some scenes such as sun light on the rocks like samsung wonderland demo.
If highlights on the rocks more saturated you get less hdr efect because two color diffrence is less. So desat control: 65% scaled to measured peak is better here.
Thanks.I haven't had too much time to test this week but I concur with the 65% desat and 500 limit. I tested that out over the weekend with Ant-man and the Wasp and it looks damn good. Did not get to take screenshots.
Here's another good example (I think)
From Murder on the Orient Express (look at the saturation level of the yellow lamp shade)
Reference 222 clipping
My preference is around 500.
My lowest limit would be 400 here, but I might prefer 500.That is strange, my highest limit would be 400 here, with probably a balanced result around 350.
The ideal limit for me seems to be the measured peak + x, but I am not 100% sure.
I agree that we will probably end up using "limit = measured peak + x". I'm not sure yet what "x" will be. I feel that using a higher number would be "safer". After all, the original "scale to measured peak" was always using a limit of 600nits, and it looked fine. I'm thinking "x" may end up something like 222nits...
I'm not completely sure how to understand your comment. Is looking like an older kind of film good or bad? If it's bad, then which other settings combination would you suggest instead?I would say try to check out 2fast 2furious if anyone of you can. Settings at 100 target peak nits, 65% desat, 500 desat some of the films looks like an older kind of film in some shots. Looks good in others, but some look like an old film reel in some shots. Also, I'm not sure if this setting is losing contrast or not.
I neither like nor recommend YCbCr output. I always strongly recommend RGB. But in the end, every TV is different. Some TVs may not handle RGB signals as well as they should. So maybe there's a good reason to use YCbCr output. In any case, unless you send me your TV for testing, I don't know what to recommend to you. You're in the best position to test this yourself and pick the settings combination which looks best for you.Sorry if this question is off topic, wasn't sure where to ask it, but its related to MADVR. I have always ran my PC and all my consoles at Full Range RGB and calibrated the projector to expect full range RGB. But with HDR games needing limited range 10bit to achieve @ 60hz I am guessing I need to now calibrate to limited range to accommodate that.
Movies using MADVR will run at 24HZ 4:4:4 10bit Y’CbCr
PC desktop will run at 60HZ 4:4:4 8bit Y’CbCr
PC NON HDRgames will run at 60hz 4:4:4 8bit Y’CbCr
Console game will run at 60hz 4:2:0(2) 10bit Y’CbCr
PC HDR games will run at 60hz 4:2:0(2) 10bit Y’CbCr (force through fullscreen game mode)
So wouldn't I need to calibrate the projector at Y’CbCr range (limited) and have to use Y’CbCr 4:4:4 output for the GPU on the PC? For MADVR would I output RGB Full and let the GPU do the conversion at this point?
In any case, this doesn't seem to be a topic related to improving madVR's tone mapping algorithm? Which is what this thread is all about. So I'd kindly ask you to follow-up on this on another madVR related thread here on AVSForum or doom9, so we can keep this thread dedicated to improving madVR's tone mapping algorithm. Thanks!