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Been using madvr with my x970R for a while, and now have an NX9 and a DCR lens coming for it.

I estimate I should have up to ~44ftL available for HDR from my 1.18 actual gain screen. I only had about 25ftL available from my x970R with 1800 hrs on the bulb.

With this additional brightness, I'm wondering if I should be doing something else in how I output from madvr?

Currently tone mapping HDR but outputting SDR to the projector. Should this change now with the increased brightness?

Also, is the proper way to determine the nits value to put in the newest version of madvr to read ftL on 100IRE pattern off screen when in HDR mode/high lamp using Mascior's HDR patterns, and then convert to nits?

Finally, about madmeasureHDR given my details above - what would be the recommended settings to generate that measure file for my setup?
I have an RS1000/NX5 (115" screen/1.2gain at almost min throw) so I'm ~50ftL in high lamp give or take. With the dtm from MadVR I ended up leaving it on low lamp except when I'm watching 3D. I noticed a slight increase in brightness, but ended up deciding it wasn't worth the lamp wear. I have the projector tucked away in a closet with a port hole so noise isn't an issue. The tone mapping by MadVR is so good I just didn't think it was worth going to high lamp. I'd set it up how you want, calibrate, etc and then just flip back and forth and see how you like it. I run mine right now low lamp 0 iris and no DI. For SDR I ended up doing low lamp, -10, and auto 2(the yellowing isn't noticeable for me below -8 or so).
 

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I have an RS1000/NX5 (115" screen/1.2gain at almost min throw) so I'm ~50ftL in high lamp give or take. With the dtm from MadVR I ended up leaving it on low lamp except when I'm watching 3D. I noticed a slight increase in brightness, but ended up deciding it wasn't worth the lamp wear. I have the projector tucked away in a closet with a port hole so noise isn't an issue. The tone mapping by MadVR is so good I just didn't think it was worth going to high lamp. I'd set it up how you want, calibrate, etc and then just flip back and forth and see how you like it. I run mine right now low lamp 0 iris and no DI. For SDR I ended up doing low lamp, -10, and auto 2(the yellowing isn't noticeable for me below -8 or so).
Good idea - I will likely run in low lamp too.

What HDR output settings are you using in madvr?

Also, are you able to answer my other two questions?
 

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I have recently started playing with madVR on my 8i7NUCBEH. I am getting 4K HDR 4:2:0. Smooth playback to my eyes but madVR stats does show frame drops and performance glitches (which I cannot discern).

I am enticed by the potential of madVR, namely dynamic tone mapping after testing properly last night, I in fact prefer my Panny UB820 doing outputting the HDR PQ as SDR BT.2020 (set Panny to output SDR BR.2020). This appears to be the recommended, favourite method amongst users for the following reasons:

'If you are dong HDR>HDR with the Panny or madVR, you are double tone-mapping. You were using a custom gamma curve (in my case one of Jav's custom curves, which are great, mind) that already performs tone mapping. The UB820, and similarly madVR I would assume, are totally unaware of that, and performs its own tone mapping based only on the input signal'.

From AVS:

"I would HIGHLY recommend people using projectors use the SDR BT.2020 output. This not only does the same tone mapping, it allows you to vary the display luminance (the dynamic range slider) to better approximate the display's true luminance (it doesn't do this in HDR output mode, it only varies the steepness of the tone map). This makes a huge difference for titles that are really bright vs really dark (say The Meg vs BR2049). ON TOP OF THAT, it allows you to force a 1000 nit based tone map if the metadata is wrong, which is VERY OFTEN. This is achieved by just turning the HDR Optimizer to OFF".

I experienced the above, and my preference is SDR BT.2020 output, JVC Gamma 2.4 and HDR Optimiser off. The image is stunning. I find you gain much better colour saturation, richer colours, more tonal balance and more contrast, with lower peak brightness but still bright enough. It makes many HDR>HDR images look garish or a little cold or lifeless in comparison.

Trouble is, I have not found settings to replicate outputting HDR in this method with madVR, which I find very odd. I have played with all combination of HDR settings. At this stage, regardless of the dynamic tone mapping capabilities of madVR, I would rather have what I think is a better HDR image in terms of the above qualities, outputting SDR BT.2020 with my Panny.

Another key thing to consider is that madVR was designed primarily for mapping HDR to SDR. Not sure if that has changed and what that really means, in detail and as a whole. However, madVR doing pure HDR looks the same if not slightly better than the Panny outputting as HDR BT.2020.

Does anyone know if I can achieve the same image/ method of outputting HDR as I can with the Panasonic? Has anyone else tried/ used madVR and felt the same?

I really want to keep using Kodi and madVR, also the prospect of digitising my BR and UHD library all into one really cool and slick looking layout is very exciting. And I was very much looking forward to doing so in conjunction with building a new PC to maximise use of madVR for optimal HD and 4K HDR image performance. But if I cannot achieve what I currently prefer with my Panny, I guess there might be no point in me pursuing madVR further at this stage.
 

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I have recently started playing with madVR on my 8i7NUCBEH. I am getting 4K HDR 4:2:0. Smooth playback to my eyes but madVR stats does show frame drops and performance glitches (which I cannot discern).

I am enticed by the potential of madVR, namely dynamic tone mapping after testing properly last night, I in fact prefer my Panny UB820 doing outputting the HDR PQ as SDR BT.2020 (set Panny to output SDR BR.2020). This appears to be the recommended, favourite method amongst users for the following reasons:

'If you are dong HDR>HDR with the Panny or madVR, you are double tone-mapping. You were using a custom gamma curve (in my case one of Jav's custom curves, which are great, mind) that already performs tone mapping. The UB820, and similarly madVR I would assume, are totally unaware of that, and performs its own tone mapping based only on the input signal'.

From AVS:

"I would HIGHLY recommend people using projectors use the SDR BT.2020 output. This not only does the same tone mapping, it allows you to vary the display luminance (the dynamic range slider) to better approximate the display's true luminance (it doesn't do this in HDR output mode, it only varies the steepness of the tone map). This makes a huge difference for titles that are really bright vs really dark (say The Meg vs BR2049). ON TOP OF THAT, it allows you to force a 1000 nit based tone map if the metadata is wrong, which is VERY OFTEN. This is achieved by just turning the HDR Optimizer to OFF".

I experienced the above, and my preference is SDR BT.2020 output, JVC Gamma 2.4 and HDR Optimiser off. The image is stunning. I find you gain much better colour saturation, richer colours, more tonal balance and more contrast, with lower peak brightness but still bright enough. It makes many HDR>HDR images look garish or a little cold or lifeless in comparison.

Trouble is, I have not found settings to replicate outputting HDR in this method with madVR, which I find very odd. I have played with all combination of HDR settings. At this stage, regardless of the dynamic tone mapping capabilities of madVR, I would rather have what I think is a better HDR image in terms of the above qualities, outputting SDR BT.2020 with my Panny.

Another key thing to consider is that madVR was designed primarily for mapping HDR to SDR. Not sure if that has changed and what that really means, in detail and as a whole. However, madVR doing pure HDR looks the same if not slightly better than the Panny outputting as HDR BT.2020.

Does anyone know if I can achieve the same image/ method of outputting HDR as I can with the Panasonic? Has anyone else tried/ used madVR and felt the same?

I really want to keep using Kodi and madVR, also the prospect of digitising my BR and UHD library all into one really cool and slick looking layout is very exciting. And I was very much looking forward to doing so in conjunction with building a new PC to maximise use of madVR for optimal HD and 4K HDR image performance. But if I cannot achieve what I currently prefer with my Panny, I guess there might be no point in me pursuing madVR further at this stage.
Sounds like you're still using an older version of madVR prior to the dynamic tone mapping.
 

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Sounds like you're still using an older version of madVR prior to the dynamic tone mapping.
Oh, really?! But I have use pixel shaders selected and below that, I have measure each frame's peak luminance - is this not dynamic tone mapping? And during playback, in madVR's stats information, it shows the measured and avg nits.
 

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Sounds like you're still using an older version of madVR prior to the dynamic tone mapping.
I do not think it is a matter of DTM though... I just want to know the method for outputting HDR as SDR BT.2020, like I do with the Panny. I am rather confused by it all, but there must be a way.
 

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I do not think it is a matter of DTM though... I just want to know the method for outputting HDR as SDR BT.2020, like I do with the Panny. I am rather confused by it all, but there must be a way.
You use the dynamic tone mapping settings as discussed by this thread. If you have an older version of madVR you don't have dynamic tone mapping. You probably only have the static tone mapping which is similar to what the Panasonic does. This is why as you said above, the images can be dark on one content and bright on another. With the dynamic tone mapping of the later builds, you won't be thinking the panasonic looks better anymore at least on projectors.

I suggest you grab build 86 and scroll up on this page and use the screen captures neo-xp posted. That's how you get HDR as SDR BT.2020 properly.
 

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You use the dynamic tone mapping settings as discussed by this thread. If you have an older version of madVR you don't have dynamic tone mapping. You probably only have the static tone mapping which is similar to what the Panasonic does. This is why as you said above, the images can be dark on one content and bright on another. With the dynamic tone mapping of the later builds, you won't be thinking the panasonic looks better anymore at least on projectors.

I suggest you grab build 86 and scroll up on this page and use the screen captures neo-xp posted. That's how you get HDR as SDR BT.2020 properly.
The official build of madVR does have dynamic tone mapping (frame peak measured).

What makes a difference in the beta is the addition of the "dynamic target nits" which had a huge positive effect.
 

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The official build of madVR does have dynamic tone mapping (frame peak measured).

What makes a difference in the beta is the addition of the "dynamic target nits" which had a huge positive effect.
Cheers, soul night! With the help of someone on AVForums, I have realised now I do not have the latest version of madVR! Can't wait to try it tonight.
 

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I'm trying to get the feel for using madVR and was wondering if my initial numbers seem right for my setups nit levels...

I have a 5040 about 18ft away from a 150" 16:9 1.1gain white and I took measurements in 3 different settings:

Cinema medium lamp - 17ft ca = 58.25 nits
Cinema high lamp -23.22ft ca = 79.56 nits
Natural medium lamp - 29ft ca = 99.36 nits

Do those numbers sound about right for my setup? I used a phone app to get my baseline lux/ft ca numbers so it may not be 100% spot on like a real light meter.


It seems like even in Cinema and high lamp mode that it's a bit too dark overall and I'm getting black crush (that's probably pq settings issues or gamma settings I'm still figuring out too though).

Natural looks much better in brightness, but man those colors are WAY better in cinema mode!
 

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Good idea - I will likely run in low lamp too.

What HDR output settings are you using in madvr?

Also, are you able to answer my other two questions?
I do leave it as SDR output, BT.2020 for color and 2.4 gamma. The only other thing I plan on doing soon is a 3DLUT calibration for MadVR.
 

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I'm trying to get the feel for using madVR and was wondering if my initial numbers seem right for my setups nit levels...

I have a 5040 about 18ft away from a 150" 16:9 1.1gain white and I took measurements in 3 different settings:

Cinema medium lamp - 17ft ca = 58.25 nits
Cinema high lamp -23.22ft ca = 79.56 nits
Natural medium lamp - 29ft ca = 99.36 nits

Do those numbers sound about right for my setup? I used a phone app to get my baseline lux/ft ca numbers so it may not be 100% spot on like a real light meter.


It seems like even in Cinema and high lamp mode that it's a bit too dark overall and I'm getting black crush (that's probably pq settings issues or gamma settings I'm still figuring out too though).

Natural looks much better in brightness, but man those colors are WAY better in cinema mode!
Those numbers sound normal for a projector and a screen that size. You should be able to maximize your brightness in madVR with one of the latest test builds by inputting that exact number into madVR and using a low dynamic tuning value. The dynamic tuning value determines how high the dynamic target nits values can be during playback. The target nits will dynamically change as the movie plays, so the image will get darker or brighter as the target nits increases or decreases to add or remove contrast. The lower the targets, the brighter the image.

You'll have to have some patience before the dynamic target nits and dynamic tuning settings are optimized to work well with all scenes and titles. I'd suggest "50" as a starting point.
 

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Those numbers sound normal for a projector and a screen that size. You should be able to maximize your brightness in madVR with one of the latest test builds by inputting that exact number into madVR and using a low dynamic tuning value. The dynamic tuning value determines how high the dynamic target nits values can be during playback. The target nits will dynamically change as the movie plays, so the image will get darker or brighter as the target nits increases or decreases to add or remove contrast. The lower the targets, the brighter the image.

You'll have to have some patience before the dynamic target nits and dynamic tuning settings are optimized to work well with all scenes and titles. I'd suggest "50" as a starting point.
Thanks.

I'm using madVR with madVRhdrMeasure86 over the top - is that what I want or is there a newer/better build I should use?
 

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Thanks.

I'm using madVR with madVRhdrMeasure86 over the top - is that what I want or is there a newer/better build I should use?
The madMeasure tool overrides the majority of the settings in the current test builds. It does its own thing when combined with Soulnight's tool.
 

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The madMeasure tool overrides the majority of the settings in the current test builds. It does its own thing when combined with Soulnight's tool.
Sorry for the basic/dumb questions, but...

Would you recommend I use just madVR instead of the extra madmeasure over the top of it? When I was using just madVR it would not allow me to the correct actual nits for my setup (hdr->tone map-> real display nits: 100 is the lowest value it allows for some reason). Is the minimum of 100 nits by design?

So I went with the madmeasurehdr86 option as it appears as a better solution now that I can actually use the correct nit values.

I'm still a bit lost by all the different threads going on out there in regards to madVR and what is the most beneficial to use.

I see these options:

1. madVR
2. madVR + madmeasurehdr 40 or 86
3. madVR + madmeasurehdr dynamic optimizer


I played around with the dynamic optimizer but it seems to add to many variables and I need to better understand how to use it.
 

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If you use madMeasureHDR alone without Soulnight's tool, you don't get the benefit of a dynamic target nits. The target nits will remain static for the entire movie.

If you don't get along with Soulnight's tool, you would be better off using Build 86 and entering your real nits there. That is actually the simplest method to enjoy the dynamic tone mapping/dynamic target nits feature.

You have to check a box in that build under configuration -> files & folders labelled ignore all measurement files to disable the static measurement files and use the new live algorithm.

Use one of Neo-XP's screenshots or the default values for the other boxes as a temporary solution to other unnecessary test settings.
 

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If you use madMeasureHDR alone without Soulnight's tool, you don't get the benefit of a dynamic target nits. The target nits will remain static for the entire movie.

If you don't get along with Soulnight's tool, you would be better off using Build 86 and entering your real nits there. That is actually the simplest method to enjoy the dynamic tone mapping/dynamic target nits feature.

You have to check a box in that build under configuration -> files & folders labelled ignore all measurement files to disable the static measurement files and use the new live algorithm.

Use one of Neo-XP's screenshots or the default values for the other boxes as a temporary solution to other unnecessary test settings.

Ok.

"build 86" is madmeasurehdr86 - correct?

This is what I have been using now - madVR (0.92.17) + madmeasurehdr86



If I have madmeasurehdr86 installed (files extracted and then pasted over files inside the madvr directory) and want to use the HDR Optimizer tool instead do I need to delete/uninstall madvr/madmeasurehdr86 before I can start using the optimizer tool? Seems like it would be messed up having both of them installed at the same time...right?
 
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