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There are benefits for mastering content at a higher range if you take a 4k video and downsample it to 1080p it looks better than a video filmed at 1080p, Dolby vision downsamples to 10 bit and looked better than 10 bit hdr.
but we're talking about 4K,aren't we?
+there are no 12-bit capable panels,and just to remember the main subject was whether HDMI 2.1 is beneficial | necessary to 10 bit panels,assuming that panels which are marketed as 10 bit are true 10 bit.
 

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Let see how they scale and deal with flaring, banding, DSE etc before we worry about zone count and which processor. Those issues have been more perceptible in actual content than the # of zones. Coding and quality of build mean more than the parts used or # of them.



When Sony and Samsung went wide viewing angle, they discovered that using very high zone counts were negated by the dispersion layer so decided to not waste the money. You can argue the value of dispersion vs contrast but that's a choice, not a downgrade.
Well, if it pushes the display further away from true blacks. I mean displays already have to tone map for black level, OLED being the odd tech out.

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Well, if it pushes the display further away from true blacks. I mean displays already have to tone map for black level, OLED being the odd tech out.

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True black is always relative on any LCD. There's always a light source behind some blacks in real world pictures as opposed to large checkerboards on any FALD. How does an FALD handle small areas of black when there is light in the same zone and it happens in all material. It's what star fields are about. No LCD can do them perfectly and it lets you know what compromises the maker chose. If it was just about backlight, IPS panels would be the rage. More tends to be better but it's often overstated. Native contrast and good backlight algorithms are equally as important.
 

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True black is always relative on any LCD. There's always a light source behind some blacks in real world pictures as opposed to large checkerboards on any FALD. How does an FALD handle small areas of black when there is light in the same zone and it happens in all material. It's what star fields are about. No LCD can do them perfectly and it lets you know what compromises the maker chose. If it was just about backlight, IPS panels would be the rage. More tends to be better but it's often overstated. Native contrast and good backlight algorithms are equally as important.
True are achievable with Dual Layer, Panasonic produced one with a IPS panel as the front layer.

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On a more Vizio focused note, I recently listened to a Webinar by MixingLight who do color grading for films, Netflix content as well as tutorials on HDR, DV, etc.

The colorist speaking and answering questions, mentioned demoing a Vizio display. With specifics on size or model year, said that it was impressive and hit 2000 nits on a 40% window.

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While we're "being honest" Vizio may seem to have a lot on paper but have they done anything to improve their reliability which has come into question in the last year or two?



Yay Vizio may have added features but when it breaks in 6 months, you might not feel so great about it, even worse if it's shortly after the warranty is over. Def. get that extended warranty, and some aspirin, for later ;)



Anyway I think the X900H is not bad in terms of improvements. HDMI 2.1 will be coming to it with VRR an HFR so I think that's enough to say they did something good there. The other models are a slightly different story but if you think about it these are mainly gamer features anyway and not everyone is a gamer and not everyone even games on their main TVs these days either.



Samsung, though I'm not really a fan, I don't feel like they really needed to do anything special with their lineup anyway as they've had these gamer features, apart from HFR, for a while now. It's a bit odd that they "stepped down" all the models but apparently the MSRPs are all in line with the previous "step downs" as well--like Q80T is the same as the [original] price of Q70R, Q70T is the price of Q60R, etc.


Hisense has improved the H8G over the H8F, it's not a huge leap and only incremental but still improvement nonetheless; have to wait and see what the H9G does. Also the XD9G should be quite something, if it even comes out this year.



TCL should have some winners, though probably not gonna see those until late in the year since they are on a different release schedule.


Can't really expect much for this year anymore anyway :|
 

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While we're "being honest" Vizio may seem to have a lot on paper but have they done anything to improve their reliability which has come into question in the last year or two?



Yay Vizio may have added features but when it breaks in 6 months, you might not feel so great about it, even worse if it's shortly after the warranty is over. Def. get that extended warranty, and some aspirin, for later ;)



Anyway I think the X900H is not bad in terms of improvements. HDMI 2.1 will be coming to it with VRR an HFR so I think that's enough to say they did something good there. The other models are a slightly different story but if you think about it these are mainly gamer features anyway and not everyone is a gamer and not everyone even games on their main TVs these days either.



Samsung, though I'm not really a fan, I don't feel like they really needed to do anything special with their lineup anyway as they've had these gamer features, apart from HFR, for a while now. It's a bit odd that they "stepped down" all the models but apparently the MSRPs are all in line with the previous "step downs" as well--like Q80T is the same as the [original] price of Q70R, Q70T is the price of Q60R, etc.


Hisense has improved the H8G over the H8F, it's not a huge leap and only incremental but still improvement nonetheless; have to wait and see what the H9G does. Also the XD9G should be quite something, if it even comes out this year.



TCL should have some winners, though probably not gonna see those until late in the year since they are on a different release schedule.


Can't really expect much for this year anymore anyway :|
If TCL can get the TVs made, they’ll release them if they aren’t the 8k Vidriian models. I expect the Vidrians to be delayed to next year. The non-8K comes out when it’s ready because TCL needs income to advance Vidrian and beyond tech.

TCL released the smartphones somewhat as expected so even though it’s a terrible time to release new phones.
 

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Vizio TCL really are 2021 companies. I do t know if fair to call them 2020 companies with everything out there in the ether.
 

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True are achievable with Dual Layer, Panasonic produced one with a IPS panel as the front layer.

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Great! Let me know when I can buy one in 75" or what that has to do with this fald zone count discussion. That and it's also not pixel level. The rear contrast panel is 1080. That's plenty good enough for me but there will still be black pixels not reaching true black.

Nice to see them using IPS for the front panel. I had questioned why Hisense didn't do this in their dual layer prototype.
 

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Great! Let me know when I can buy one in 75" or what that has to do with this fald zone count discussion. That and it's also not pixel level. The rear contrast panel is 1080. That's plenty good enough for me but there will still be black pixels not reaching true black.



Nice to see them using IPS for the front panel. I had questioned why Hisense didn't do this in their dual layer prototype.
Well, to be on topic. Its true, a 120 zone FALD display can outperform a 480 or 792 zone FALD display. Its the algorithm, that determines how well FALD performs.

Professional color grading monitor developer Flanders Scientific representative in a interview with Mixing Light said as much. Vizio released the first DV capable consumer displays, and has been at this FALD game longer than most.

So we will see where Vizio 2020 land once they are in consumers and reviewers hands.

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I've had my 2016 P series for 4 years.

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Still have my 2014 P series, going strong. The LD has been acting kind of goofy lately, but I haven't done a factory reset either. Still love the set.
Yeah that's fine and all but it's not the 4 and 6 year old models that have had the reliability issues.
 

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Yeah that's fine and all but it's not the 4 and 6 year old models that have had the reliability issues.

Totally agree, I have no experience with newer Vizio products. Simply responding to a comment.


That being said, I'm anxiously awaiting the new Vizio offerings, as I'm long overdue for an upgrade.
 

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Well, to be on topic. Its true, a 120 zone FALD display can outperform a 480 or 792 zone FALD display. Its the algorithm, that determines how well FALD performs.

Professional color grading monitor developer Flanders Scientific representative in a interview with Mixing Light said as much. Vizio released the first DV capable consumer displays, and has been at this FALD game longer than most.

So we will see where Vizio 2020 land once they are in consumers and reviewers hands.

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Well, my point was that there is more to LCD TVs than number of zones. Race car specs don't often give you the best daily driver, at least not at budget prices.

We hear this every year from Vizio and some of their sets represent good value but look at last year, their top set had odd flaring, not as good scaling, poorer gradients, more screen lottery and quirks than the giants they are trying to kill. Measure great in static contrast tests but until they offer a more finished product with fewer quirks, the idea that they're a better TV only due to more zones is a bit much. Their niche is value and calling card FALD which is fine. Maybe Vizio scaling, motion, artifact handling etc will be competitive this year but until they are, it's pick your poison and they are not better for everyone simply due to having more zones. This is the same convo here every year before release. A few mo later, they are no longer considered giant killers and have threads that are mostly about quirks. Some very happy customers and some not so much.
 

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Well, my point was that there is more to LCD TVs than number of zones. Race car specs don't often give you the best daily driver, at least not at budget prices.



We hear this every year from Vizio and some of their sets represent good value but look at last year, their top set had odd flaring, not as good scaling, poorer gradients, more screen lottery and quirks than the giants they are trying to kill. Measure great in static contrast tests but until they offer a more finished product with fewer quirks, the idea that they're a better TV only due to more zones is a bit much. Their niche is value and calling card FALD which is fine. Maybe Vizio scaling, motion, artifact handling etc will be competitive this year but until they are, it's pick your poison and they are not better for everyone simply due to having more zones. This is the same convo here every year before release. A few mo later, they are no longer considered giant killers and have threads that are mostly about quirks. Some very happy customers and some not so much.
I think the panel lottery will continue to be there, at least until everyone adopts Mura Correction for uniformity. Sony and Panasonic currently use it as far as I know. Vizio may still be using "by eye" QC which is obviously subjective, and leaves room for what is the panel lottery. So all we can do, is hope Vizio is using it and the cost doesn't affect consumer price.

The color banding issue, I've been wondering if its a nits issue. To much light for a 10 bit panel, or Vizio was shoveling out 8bit+FRC.

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