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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've just seen the LG 55LW9500 next to the Samsung 55D8000 at the shops. Playing the same aerial photography documentary ("Human Planet"?). Whales, cities, glaciers, lagoons, etc.. Now the Samsung had pop. I mean POP!! The picture was almost 3D. Both are glossy, but the LG looked boring and its glass front took away the "immediacy" of the picture. But then I noticed something. The Samsung absolutely crushed all dark detail. The bright stuff stood out because the dim stuff turned into a black pit. On the LG you could see the little waves shimmer, the small folds in the rocks, small details of atolls, and all this with minimal color shifts when viewed at an angle. Not so on the Sammy.


I know the sets are not calibrated, fed a questionable signal... But I saw both sets at a different store 6 weeks ago side by side, playing the same stuff and the impression was similar. It's just that this time around I looked more carefully at the "small print" in the picture.


Now the question is what does this bode for the future? The D8000 is the most eye-catching TV in the store bar none (plasmas are even more disadvantaged by their low brightness). It manages this feat with edge lighting. Do full LED backlit TVs and accurate colors (and Plasma for that matter) have a future?


P.S.

I took a long time to decide between a Samsung Galaxy S II and an iPhone 4. The most important thing for me was that the screen would be good for reading. The iPhone has higher pixel density. The SGSII has infinite contrast. Since I like to read white text on a black background, I chose the latter. Now the Galaxy screen pops like crazy. The colours are ridiculously oversaturated...
 

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The TV's in stores are typically set to retail mode which put the TV in 'torch' mode or retina burn mode. Others call it the moth to flame effect, I like it when I go to stores and watch people who are drawn to the Sammy's like zombies because its so bright and has cartoon colors.
 

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yes, I know what you mean. I ended up with D7000 when I started with plan to buy the VT30 Plasma. It is possible to calibrate the set to prevent crushed black. The images do look spectacular. The problem has been flashlighting and edge light bleed visible in pitchblack room with dark material. It is mitigated by calibration but it never fully goes away.

However, In a lighted room, the picture is very very good.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblackkeys /forum/post/20806245


The TV's in stores are typically set to retail mode which put the TV in 'torch' mode or retina burn mode. Others call it the moth to flame effect, I like it when I go to stores and watch people who are drawn to the Sammy's like zombies because its so bright and has cartoon colors.

I enjoy more pop then perfect color with movie/warm2 settings on samsung, but you would not believe the BDwise settings the TV and Bluray player for samsung come up with watching BD's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblackkeys /forum/post/20806245


The TV's in stores are typically set to retail mode which put the TV in 'torch' mode or retina burn mode. Others call it the moth to flame effect, I like it when I go to stores and watch people who are drawn to the Sammy's like zombies because its so bright and has cartoon colors.

Since most people judge by the first impression and don't play with the settings, the one with the best torch mode wins? My parents' LG 55LX6500's torch mode is just garish.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Benign /forum/post/20806332


Since most people judge by the first impression and don't play with the settings, the one with the best torch mode wins? My parents' LG t55LX6500's torch mode is just garish.

hey guys, Frank .. l'm more.. of the aforesaid zombies/moths.. type (ie The blackkeys):

First off this small thread, so far, nails it for me. I'm Like anismo, l started looking at vt30 ( best ever,) bla, bla.. color, blacks, etc and it is an "excellent" panel choice..for some. Then the LG with more "shimmer","small folds", "details" in the picture, and, l get this,.. and ..lets not forget the passive 3d, l now, much more prefer.. But, the almost 3d in 2d POP!! Of samsung..as referred t o_0. Now that's visceral "eye candy" that I want on my display panel. I would rather know it's there/ capable of being produced in the display as the "POP".. as a picture option, and back it off to get more "shi_mmer and details, with less "black crush", etc" when I want the option. Frank, droozy?? Can LG panny do this with piture adjustments?

Then not having it as an option because of what ever reason. Does any one know how to "eye candy" ka "Pop" the LG passive 3d?o

And approach samsung's. Pop? On a lw 6500 or lw 5600? I've been waiting for this lw9800 nano, maybe it can eye candy me. But i am thinking its more the panel and or technology in the respective companies approach to the display science The videophlles and calibration appreciating people are correct as an apple to oranges starting point... the basics. The benchmark reference point. Then again Henry Ford "et al" had basics too.. and might, probley? say, riding in a Lamborghini or Ferrari or vette , implementing of the " basics" " you can't enjoy the countryside, the natural colors,the sounds, you are missing the natural pace of life " with this speed and the reference color of the transport is black you must adhere to the original parameters. ( l suggest, the extras and "POP"is there (in today's super cars and today's super panels)You don't have to use THEM, but its nice to have there as an option) analogy just to convey visceral feeling, not literal analogy of science of the two, or from straying from the reference [email protected] I'm sure riding in a black model t is fun too. Riding in a Lamborghini and watching friends mouth drop open and eyes pop is fun too, tho ..might be a reason for samsungs appeal to the senses/masses??
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
To my eye, high-end glossy Samsungs have the best store mode. But in the long run is that a good thing for the consumer, if the vendors concentrate on having the best torch mode, possibly disregarding normal PQ? Junk food can taste good. But when all food is junk food?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Benign /forum/post/20811690


To my eye, high-end glossy Samsungs have the best store mode. But in the long run is that a good thing for the consumer, if the vendors concentrate on having the best torch mode, possibly disregarding normal PQ? Junk food can taste good. But when all food is junk food?

....I like your analogy of the food.
. Question? Can the high end glossy Samsung store "torch" mode be "backed off" to still attain a "normal" good/great pq? Question 2?... if the vendors all adjust their panels to the store "torch" mode, to draw and sell customers, why doesn't lg's pop in this mode?, and my panel, the LG passive 3d doesn't seem to have that wow, pop to begin with, being in the store, torch mode) should'nt it?...does the lg have the capacity of dialing this pop in? How? So I can have passive 3d eye candy to_0 ? And for 'lil humor.. if junk food added vitamins and fiber would it still be junk food and would it still taste good?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams /forum/post/20812507


....I like your analogy of the food.
. Question? Can the high end glossy Samsung store "torch" mode be "backed off" to still attain a "normal" good/great pq? Question 2?... if the vendors all adjust their panels to the store "torch" mode, to draw and sell customers, why doesn't lg's pop in this mode?, and my panel, the LG passive 3d doesn't seem to have that wow, pop to begin with, being in the store, torch mode) should'nt it?...does the lg have the capacity of dialing this pop in? How? So I can have passive 3d eye candy to_0 ? And for 'lil humor.. if junk food added vitamins and fiber would it still be junk food and would it still taste good?

I'm wondering about the same things. My guess is that, local dimming aside, PVA panels have higher contrast ratios than IPS panels. 3000-5000 vs 800-1000. Together with Samsung's glossy coating (IMO, the best of its kind), as opposed to a matte finish or a glass front, you get major pop.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams /forum/post/20812507


....I like your analogy of the food.
. Question? Can the high end glossy Samsung store "torch" mode be "backed off" to still attain a "normal" good/great pq? Question 2?... if the vendors all adjust their panels to the store "torch" mode, to draw and sell customers, why doesn't lg's pop in this mode?, and my panel, the LG passive 3d doesn't seem to have that wow, pop to begin with, being in the store, torch mode) should'nt it?...does the lg have the capacity of dialing this pop in? How? So I can have passive 3d eye candy to_0 ? And for 'lil humor.. if junk food added vitamins and fiber would it still be junk food and would it still taste good?

1-yes, Samsungs can be "backed off".

2-Samsung seems to be the only company that learned a lesson from the pilgrims, who bought Manhattan from the Indigenous population with a few dollars worth of shiny beads.

3-Some people's definition of eye-candy is the most accurate color and dark detail, not eye-searing neon colors.

4-If Junk food added fiber and vitamins you'd still die from the excessive fat, sugar, and salt, if that's all you ate.


Seriously, if "pop" is your main priority put the LG on Craigslist and buy yourself a Sammy. In torch mode you may not notice the flashlighting and zebra stripes.
 

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Yes,the sammy can be "backed off", the setting that causes the black crush and white crush is the dynamic contrast setting,turn it off and you can achieve a natural picture, also set the color mode to standard to avoid neon green grass,lol
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Benign
I'm wondering about the same things. My guess is that, local dimming aside, PVA panels have higher contrast ratios than IPS panels. 3000-5000 vs 800-1000. Together with Samsung's glossy coating (IMO, the best of its kind), as opposed to a matte finish or a glass front, you get major pop.
Thank you.. I'll bet that's it. The panel!! this has had me confused, as I agree with you guys about the "store mode" to "hook, n sell" couldn't figure why the LG l want to purchase doesn't pop? ergo, pva panel, and glossy screen for perceived deeper blacks and vivid color. Do any of you guys think/speculate that the nano, panel with local dimming "might" even the playing field and approximate samsungs pop,? Is this possible with an ips panel? Really like/want lg's passive 3d. I think this lw9800 has a glossy panel also but still has the ips panel? Any of you that understand the principle of these panels, think the full array/locale dimming can match eye candy pop?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams /forum/post/20815769


Thank you.. I'll bet that's it. The panel!! this has had me confused, as I agree with you guys about the "store mode" to "hook, n sell" couldn't figure why the LG l want to purchase doesn't pop? ergo, pva panel, and glossy screen for perceived deeper blacks and vivid color. Do any of you guys think/speculate that the nano, panel with local dimming "might" even the playing field and approximate samsungs pop,? Is this possible with an ips panel? Really like/want lg's passive 3d. I think this lw9800 has a glossy panel also but still has the ips panel? Any of you that understand the principle of these panels, think the full array/locale dimming can match eye candy pop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Benign /forum/post/20806197


I've just seen the LG 55LW9500 next to the Samsung 55D8000 at the shops. Playing the same aerial photography documentary ("Human Planet"?). Whales, cities, glaciers, lagoons, etc.. Now the Samsung had pop. I mean POP!! The picture was almost 3D. Both are glossy, but the LG looked boring and its glass front took away the "immediacy" of the picture. But then I noticed something. The Samsung absolutely crushed all dark detail. The bright stuff stood out because the dim stuff turned into a black pit. On the LG you could see the little waves shimmer, the small folds in the rocks, small details of atolls, and all this with minimal color shifts when viewed at an angle. Not so on the Sammy.


I know the sets are not calibrated, fed a questionable signal... But I saw both sets at a different store 6 weeks ago side by side, playing the same stuff and the impression was similar. It's just that this time around I looked more carefully at the "small print" in the picture.


Now the question is what does this bode for the future? The D8000 is the most eye-catching TV in the store bar none (plasmas are even more disadvantaged by their low brightness). It manages this feat with edge lighting. Do full LED backlit TVs and accurate colors (and Plasma for that matter) have a future?


P.S.

I took a long time to decide between a Samsung Galaxy S II and an iPhone 4. The most important thing for me was that the screen would be good for reading. The iPhone has higher pixel density. The SGSII has infinite contrast. Since I like to read white text on a black background, I chose the latter. Now the Galaxy screen pops like crazy. The colours are ridiculously oversaturated...

For me as someone who Unfortunately just returned a un55d7000 due too clouding and flashlighting, i have too say that if samsung is ever able too eliminate the flashlighting and clouding from the sets they will cosmeticly and picture wise have the best television on the market.. ( Probly excluding the new elites though lol )


I am one who likes the pop and and in your face colors of Samsungs 7000 - - 8000 d series lcd/led much more then the duller, dimmer, supposedly more accurate colors of a plasma
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S /forum/post/20814722


1-yes, Samsungs can be "backed off".

2-Samsung seems to be the only company that learned a lesson from the pilgrims, who bought Manhattan from the Indigenous population with a few dollars worth of shiny beads.

3-Some people's definition of eye-candy is the most accurate color and dark detail, not eye-searing neon colors.

4-If Junk food added fiber and vitamins you'd still die from the excessive fat, sugar, and salt, if that's all you ate.


Seriously, if "pop" is your main priority put the LG on Craigslist and buy yourself a Sammy. In torch mode you may not notice the flashlighting and zebra stripes.

Hey Steve, thanks for your observations. You 've got humor too
#1 if a panel can approximate what you suggest in #3 by backing off then I have both. #2 is both brilliant and a hoot ( I think I got it, marketing 101?) Actually the lesson, Ben Cartwright told hopsing the Manhattan story, hopsing wrote home the story, to his uncle, samuel.
. the rest you alluded to in #2 or, as they say "is history. #4 .. God bless you, this is good advice and no joke here. #5 I haven't purchased yet.. sorry if my post implied such. the questions l asked about the lg nano panel would help a lot... Tho,an active 3d panel
, this 60x5 by sharp, sounds like what you reference as eye candy think I'd like To add this to a "possible?" And see the panel.. Thanks for the help guys cf3d too
"lil payback √out "circle cinema3d (cc3d) by srs..depth sound, with spatial cues not speakers. Immersion in the sound field..think it was "ultimateavmag" I read about my next sound "chip"
but if not Google.... surreal I feel
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S /forum/post/20814722


1-yes, Samsungs can be "backed off".

2-Samsung seems to be the only company that learned a lesson from the pilgrims, who bought Manhattan from the Indigenous population with a few dollars worth of shiny beads.

3-Some people's definition of eye-candy is the most accurate color and dark detail, not eye-searing neon colors.

4-If Junk food added fiber and vitamins you'd still die from the excessive fat, sugar, and salt, if that's all you ate.


Seriously, if "pop" is your main priority put the LG on Craigslist and buy yourself a Sammy. In torch mode you may not notice the flashlighting and zebra stripes.

Hey Steve, thanks for your observations. You 've got humor too
#1 if a panel can approximate what you suggest in #3 by backing off then I have both. #2 is both brilliant and a hoot ( I think I got it, marketing 101?) Actually the lesson, Ben Cartwright told hopsing the Manhattan story, hopsing wrote home the story, to his uncle, samuel.
. the rest you alluded to in #2 or, as they say "is history. #4 .. God bless you, this is good advice and no joke here. #5 I haven't purchased yet.. sorry if my post implied such. the questions l asked about the lg nano panel would help a lot... Tho,an active 3d panel
, this 60x5 by sharp, sounds like what you reference as eye candy think I'd like To add this to a "possible?" And see the panel.. Thanks for the help guys cf3d too
"lil payback √out "circle cinema3d (cc3d) by srs..depth sound, with spatial cues not speakers. Immersion in the sound field..think it was "ultimateavmag" I read about my next sound "chip"
but if not Google.... surreal I feel
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETERNIA FOREVER /forum/post/20815882


For me as someone who Unfortunately just returned a un55d7000 due too clouding and flashlighting, i have too say that if samsung is ever able too eliminate the flashlighting and clouding from the sets they will cosmeticly and picture wise have the best television on the market.. ( Probly excluding the new elites though lol )


I am one who likes the pop and and in your face colors of Samsungs 7000 - - 8000 d series lcd/led much more then the duller, dimmer, supposedly more accurate colors of a plasma

hey eternia forever, sorry to hear of your disappointment and the return of your panel.. what you say about d7000 and d8000 +1 100% excellent eye candy "pop, and color Nirvana" so, if I can ask, what else looks good/great to you, minus Mura? I suppose the passive/active 3d solution will still have this uniformity issue as the two panels you referenced in your post are top of the line and will probley be the panels with the real'd/Samsung solution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams /forum/post/20815769


Thank you.. I'll bet that's it. The panel!! this has had me confused, as I agree with you guys about the "store mode" to "hook, n sell" couldn't figure why the LG l want to purchase doesn't pop? ergo, pva panel, and glossy screen for perceived deeper blacks and vivid color. Do any of you guys think/speculate that the nano, panel with local dimming "might" even the playing field and approximate samsungs pop,? Is this possible with an ips panel? Really like/want lg's passive 3d. I think this lw9800 has a glossy panel also but still has the ips panel? Any of you that understand the principle of these panels, think the full array/locale dimming can match eye candy pop?

Most of LGs high-end panels are IPS. Some of LG branded TVs have third party (most likely MVA) panels for certain, because LG doesn't make 52", 60" and 65" panels. Some of the cheaper 55" models can also be MVA (D520). WRT pop, this could be a good guide:
http://hdtvbychadb.com/resources/tv-reviews

The LG 55LHX is a matte panel, yet has a lot of pop according to Chad B.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams /forum/post/20815945


Hey Steve, thanks for your observations. You 've got humor too
#1 if a panel can approximate what you suggest in #3 by backing off then I have both. #2 is both brilliant and a hoot ( I think I got it, marketing 101?) Actually the lesson, Ben Cartwright told hopsing the Manhattan story, hopsing wrote home the story, to his uncle, samuel.
. the rest you alluded to in #2 or, as they say "is history. #4 .. God bless you, this is good advice and no joke here. #5 I haven't purchased yet.. sorry if my post implied such. the questions l asked about the lg nano panel would help a lot... Tho,an active 3d panel
, this 60x5 by sharp, sounds like what you reference as eye candy think I'd like To add this to a "possible?" And see the panel.. Thanks for the help guys cf3d too
"lil payback √out "circle cinema3d (cc3d) by srs..depth sound, with spatial cues not speakers. Immersion in the sound field..think it was "ultimateavmag" I read about my next sound "chip"
but if not Google.... surreal I feel

Thanks, I was afraid I'd been a bit too sarcastic there and shoulda put in a smiley or two.


I've never seen an LG passive 3D set (we don't sell 'em where I work and I'm not shopping) so can't really comment from personal experience. An IPS panel, if that's what they have, will sacrifice a little contrast ratio in the interest of wider viewing angles and thus have less apparent pop.


Of the sets I've seen, in 2D mode the Sharps are a close second to the Samsungs as far as pop in torch mode. They do have a semi-matte vs glossy screen so ymmv but they do catch the eye better than our 2D LG or Sony models.


Since active 3D glasses are tinted the pop is a little reduced in 3D mode on the active 3D sets I've seen--least with Samsung LED but the uneven illumination is worst on them.


Keep in mind that in most home situations with medium or lower ambient light a set with less maximum pop in the showroom than others may be capable of more than enough.


The thing I've observed personally is that full-on torch mode is almost always uncomfortable to watch in most normal home environments, even from sets that don't have the most pop in showroom conditions.


The set with the most pop can be tamed, so you can have the "best of both worlds" as far as brightness and color, but poor screen uniformity can't be tamed and that's one reason I'd go for a little less pop in one make vs another.


Hey, a Ferrari might go 200mph, but slogging through your daily commute a humble Corolla is a more tractable drive.


And with that I'll shut up and head over to Burger King.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams /forum/post/20816009


hey eternia forever, sorry to hear of your disappointment and the return of your panel.. what you say about d7000 and d8000 +1 100% excellent eye candy "pop, and color Nirvana" so, if I can ask, what else looks good/great to you, minus Mura? I suppose the passive/active 3d solution will still have this uniformity issue as the two panels you referenced in your post are top of the line and will probley be the panels with the real'd/Samsung solution.


Well i too like you am waiting for the lg 55lw9800 to come out and if i like the picture on that an if it has samsung like pop on it, i will get that television then but...........



If not i suppose i will wait till next year and see if samsung has resolved its flashlighting/clouding issuses from this years televisions
 
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