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Hi,


for the first time since dabbling in CRT's I got myself a Runco to play with and wanted to post with regard to the often heard claim that Runco only paints cases black/white.


The Runco I have sitting here is a Runco 933 which is based on the PG extra. It is only specified as scanning to 50 KHz but goes up to 1080p 60, which is almost 70 KHz, with no problems.


So are there really any differences ? I'd sure say so as the projector also has an illuminated Runco badge on the back of the case that emits a very nice golden glow :D


Kidding aside there is a complete new board about 4" by 3" sitting on the power supply and there are also extensive modifications made to the Wave-Board, including a small board added and several potis. What do these things do you might ask ? Well, they flatten the greyscale and allow for nearly perfect gamma, while still allowing a very high light output and shadow detail from the projector. On top of that the Runco being is by far the best set up projector that I ever got my hands on, including several new NEC XG's and PG's that came directly from the factory.


So you definitely get things that matter a lot for home theater from Runco: Better setup, better gamma and better greyscale. The morale is that everybody who still claims that Runco only paints cases should just check the facts (the projectors) before making such a claim and he will see that he is wrong.


Oliver
 

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Hi Oliver,


I agree - Runco usually gets a bad rap. There are often more changes that people think (I tried to help a friend fix a NEC 9PG based Runco but none of the NEC replacement boards we tried were the same!).


Hope you don't mind, but I stole the line about the power supply & wave board mods to use on Curt's Runco page. The more people that know that Runco doesn't just paint the cases black, the better I guess!

http://www.curtpalme.com/Runco.htm


Kal
 

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I think Runco get's more of a bad rap for their political-marketing jibba-jabber than their actually end results in products. I personally have nothing against their products, but I could find some easy things to debate with Sam on, and also some marketing as well. If someone gave me a 933 I wouldn't kick it out onto the street. :)
 

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I think Runco has advanced HT more than anyone in that he made it into a real sort of thing to have in an elite home environment. Obviously, Henry Kloss was pushing it early but didn't have the marketing savy as Sam has to turn it into what it is now.


He made packages with modifications bundled with aspect control ,scaling etc to make the pjs into a product that dealers could install and give one a theater in ones home.


This whole concept though appeals more to people with more money than time, or at least who could not justify DIY from a financial perspective. This is diametric to the whole concept on the forum. Many many here have put together great things with research, time and relatively fewer dollars.


I have great repect for those here for that but that takes nothing away from my respect for Sam Runco and what he has made happen. Just talk to the man , he is a lion and teddy bear in one package.


Art
 

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Curt hosting a pro Runco webpage...that's not very nice Kal! :D


If Sam did indeed make extensive mods to other manufacturer's PJs, then why didn't he just said so, instead of claiming Runco manufactured their own? Heavy mods would have justified Runco's existence without the lawyer ********. He strikes me as the ultimate hype master. Not my kind of guy at all.
 

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I think Runco does more than paint the cases..........they also print their own manuals. :D
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs
Kidding aside there is a complete new board about 4" by 3" sitting on the power supply and there are also extensive modifications made to the Wave-Board, including a small board added and several potis. What do these things do you might ask ? Well, they flatten the greyscale and allow for nearly perfect gamma, while still allowing a very high light output and shadow detail from the projector.
The board sitting above the power supply is actually the ARC10, which allows "one-button" aspect ratio control (before we had scalers that did it) by fooling the projector into thinking it is communicating with an external switcher. It also allows "stacking" memories, providing one-button access to memories that use the same frequency. This is nice if you have multiple memories set up for different color temperatures, overscan/underscan, etc.)


The daughter board attached to the wave board has pots that allow s-curve adjustment for each CRT, a great feature that NEC didn't add until the XG series!


Ken Whitcomb
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken
The board sitting above the power supply is actually the ARC10, which allows "one-button" aspect ratio control (before we had scalers that did it) by fooling the projector into thinking it is communicating with an external switcher. It also allows "stacking" memories, providing one-button access to memories that use the same frequency. This is nice if you have multiple memories set up for different color temperatures, overscan/underscan, etc.)


The daughter board attached to the wave board has pots that allow s-curve adjustment for each CRT, a great feature that NEC didn't add until the XG series!


Ken Whitcomb
Definitely worth an extra $5K when you're buying a new projector. Oh, and you get the Runco name instead of NEC........or is the Ronko---by Popiel.:D
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
Definitely worth an extra $5K when you're buying a new projector. Oh, and you get the Runco name instead of NEC...
I was just stating the features and adjustment those two boards provided (since their functions were misstated in the original post).


As to the value of Runco's mods, I will leave that for others to debate.


Ken Whitcomb
 

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Phil Smith said:
Curt hosting a pro Runco webpage...that's not very nice Kal! :D


QUOTE]



I hereby disown my own website. Dammit, just as the thing started maturing and growing legs of it's own, someone had to feed it some speed and it's spewing BS on it's own.


:)


Oliver, no offense, but I believe Ken more than your own findings. Here's the issues IMHO:


1) Runco didn't release any service info on these mods. HOw you do know how to adjust them?


2) If mods are done on the wave board, you need NEC extender cards to get to them, that's even something that I don't have.


3) I've never had an issue with Runco's marketing success. I've heard Sam speak, and the way the guy spoke simply rubs me the wrong way. THat's just me, the man has had phenomenal success, and he most certainly knows how to throw around $10.00 words to make his products sound like they are in a league of their own. No question that virtually every high end installation company has profited from being a Runco dealer.


Kal, that paragraph has a couple of errors in it, let me massage it to get it closer to the truth, without getting a call from a lawyer type.


;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
Kal, that paragraph has a couple of errors in it, let me massage it to get it closer to the truth, without getting a call from a lawyer type.
Yep! No problems! I'll tweak it a bit based on Ken's findings, and then you can tell if it's still not in line with what you want to say. :)


Kal
 

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Kal you're putting Curt in an awkward position. Are you not aware that Sam had his lawyers lean on Curt? I can't imagine Curt wanting his website to champion the Runco cause in any shape or form. If I was Curt, I certainly wouldn't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith
Kal you're putting Curt in an awkward position. Are you not aware that Sam had his lawyers lean on Curt? I can't imagine Curt wanting his website to champion the Runco cause in any shape or form. If I was Curt, I certainly wouldn't.


If Sam R. is really leaning on Curt, he should step out of the way and let him fall. ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
If Sam R. is really leaning on Curt, he should step out of the way and let him fall. ;)
:D
 

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That was once. I'm keeping my nose clean, but yes, no reason to tout Runco as being superior on my site.


Long gone are the days where an NEC PG Xtra sold for $3500.00 on eBay from me with new tubes, and a 3500 hour original tube Runco equivalent went for $7800.00 from an as is seller.


True story!
 

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All news to me! Let me know how you want the text changed Curt and I'll certainly change it any way you like...


I've been around this site for 5 years now... funny that I never heard of it. What happened Curt?


Kal
 

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I'll PM you. It's kinda funny. I dare not post what happened, I'll get sued.


;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
I'll PM you. It's kinda funny. I dare not post what happened, I'll get sued.


;)
Curt,


I was aware that you had a problem with them, but never heard the details. Could you copy me on that PM. :)
 

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ONly if you promise not to cut and paste sections of that email here or in another thread.


:)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
ONly if you promise not to cut and paste sections of that email here or in another thread.


:)
Well of course not. ;)
 
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