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I'm getting ready to replace an outlet behind my new Samsung.


I know the best surge protection would be installed at the meter, but that is for a future time.


Is a Joule Rating of 720 decent for a wall outlet? Or, should I be looking for a higher rated product?


I'm thinking of using an outlet from Leviton that incorporates mild surge protection.
 

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What sort of event are you trying to protect against?
 

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When's the last time you've had an issue where an in-home surge has caused you to lose an electronic devise?
 

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In that case I wouldn't worry about installing a surge protector.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill4d /forum/post/20894959


I'm not sure how one relates to another. Is an energy dissipation rating of 1350 Joules not useful?


Just because you haven't been killed in a car accident, doesn't mean you shouldn't drive safely.


I'm not sure I understand your logic.


What is it that you are really trying to say.

What I am saying is I wouldn't waste money on something that offers little benefit against an event that just doesn't occur. Car accidents happen. Electronic devises frying at home because of an in-home event just doesn't occur with any frequency. Yet we all are led to believe that if we don't spend the money on x-degrees of magic joule protection that at any moment we will lose everything we worked so hard to build. When people lose gear due to surges the overwhelming majority of the time it is due to lighting strikes, and there is practically no cost effective way of protecting against that. Thank god there is home owners insurance though.
 

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I will agree that the threat of surges is greatly over-hyped. I would love to see how much we spend each year on surge protective devices compared to the actual losses that would be incurred if everyone were unprotected. That said, a relatively inexpensive whole-house approach to surge protection has prevented damage at my house while unprotected neighbors experience expensive losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan /forum/post/20897020


When people lose gear due to surges the overwhelming majority of the time it is due to lighting strikes, and there is practically no cost effective way of protecting against that. Thank god there is home owners insurance though.

Not true. With the exception of a direct strike, proper surge protection can prevent damage. However, it is not as simple as plugging your TV into a surge protected receptacle. All conductive paths must be protected, including TV antenna, cable, satellite, phone, etc. And the most common source of destructive surges for most folks is utility switching operations or faults.


As far as the joule rating for a surge protective receptacle goes, the one listed by the OP is just fine. Maximum expected surge energy at a receptacle 30' or more of wiring from the panel is less than 100J.
 

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Call me an old conservative curmudgeon, however regardless of which approach one endorses for protection, I'd never place an energy dissipating device within a wall. Having been around every aspect of the electrical trade for decades, I've seen enough that makes me weary of enclosing a dissipative device within a dwelling unit wall.


Now surface mount in a 4" square box, on a wall, or in a rack,...whatever. But I'd never entrust a device like that within a dwelling unit wall. Plus, I don't think it's the proper approach anyway.



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Sometime in the mid 2000's, prior to retirement, I'd finished a small workspace remodel,...whereby I'd repositioned my workbench, my desk and my multi-monitor set-up(PC). Within my responsibility was a large surveillance system, a video head end, our network backbone throughout a multi-building complex, anyway I had this killer workspace and I tweaked all placement and cable management, power, signal, fiber, everything... to the "nth" degree at my immediate workspace over a busy weekend. I installed floor to ceiling power poles of Uni-strut, with multiple receptacles in 4" square boxes up and down the strut.


I had UPS powered PC's, monitors, printer, pan/tilt/zoom camera control, all kinds of stuff neat and tidy. It's significant, cause I'm not a neat and tidy with this stuff, things come and go so often that generally wires and cables are everywhere,..it's just that right then everything was perfect.


Well one morning this very young newbie from IT came by while I was away and tore apart all my workspace cable mgmt., and replaced replaced my multi-gang distro Uni-strut rig I built,.... with the cheapest,...overseas garbage plug strips. I was furious so much so that upon finding it I merely laughed. Poor kid, he was freaking out thinking I was going to kill him.


He was still there preparing to leave, all the while nervously explaining for insurance purposes, everything company owned must be plugged into surge protectors. I mean these were the throw away type, molded plastic one piece deals, that don't even have receptacles, merely thin bus strips running the length.


Way OT there, sorry for the self indulgent retrospective, but what the hell. Point being, the overwhelming vast majority of supposed "surge protection" is an absolute joke.


And yes, I think it's crazy to put a device like a MOV protected receptacle within a wall, due to the inherent danger, ....albeit not likely. No sense. I'm just sayin



Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/20897809


I will agree that the threat of surges is greatly over-hyped. I would love to see how much we spend each year on surge protective devices compared to the actual losses that would be incurred if everyone were unprotected. That said, a relatively inexpensive whole-house approach to surge protection has prevented damage at my house while unprotected neighbors experience expensive losses.




Not true. With the exception of a direct strike, proper surge protection can prevent damage. However, it is not as simple as plugging your TV into a surge protected receptacle. All conductive paths must be protected, including TV antenna, cable, satellite, phone, etc. And the most common source of destructive surges for most folks is utility switching operations or faults.


As far as the joule rating for a surge protective receptacle goes, the one listed by the OP is just fine. Maximum expected surge energy at a receptacle 30' or more of wiring from the panel is less than 100J.

Colm, as always, solid.


+1
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/20901350


...I think it's crazy to put a device like a MOV protected receptacle within a wall, due to the inherent danger...

And yet, they are UL listed which means they present neither a significant fire nor shock hazard if used according to manufacturer's instructions and your local electrical code. I suspect what is in most folks' other j-boxes is more of a fire hazard when a surge occurs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/20901776


And yet, they are UL listed which means they present neither a significant fire nor shock hazard if used according to manufacturer's instructions and your local electrical code. I suspect what is in most folks' other j-boxes is more of a fire hazard when a surge occurs.

Just as you have I'm sure, but I've seen untold numbers of UL listed items melt, burn etc. The UL listing is an overview of the bigger picture. UL has no control over QC.



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Now I'm absolutely overly cautious about stuff like this, but on principle a sacrificial component that explodes, pops etc., doesn't belong in a dwelling unit wall. My opinion. Hell, I don't even know what's inside the thing, I may be way off base. I've seen so many receptacles burn up, melt, pop like popcorn, I've seen them melt without tripping over-current protection, leaving only a glob of melted plastic/metal.


The last decade of my career, I found myself at a NFL stadium, Convention Center. now, in the Convention Center/Live event environment, we saw accelerated usage rates like you can't believe. Everything from melting cords, to 13kv gear explosion in front of my face. Circuit overloading was so commonplace from exhibitors low-balling their needs, that we saw every conceivable slow melt, fast blow, etc. But concrete floor in a Convention Center is a different matter than that of a wood stud encased wall, where someone sleeps. That changes everything.


Just my opinion.


Things happen, and when certain conditions exist, a device can heat up and not take open up the circuit appropriately.



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Also, good point Dennis. Under-voltages are problematic as well.



Thanks, all the best
 
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