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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesaint /forum/post/12821439


Your posts seem to represent a bit of a paradox to me. Everyone knows Sony's endgame is IP and licensing of the HD format for the future. To that end Sony has pretty much cannibalized their gaming division to subsidize PS3s and get BD players in homes. Smart on their part. Yet you criticize Toshiba for trying to do the same with their players. At this point it's convenient to label the PS3 a game platform, but when you want to trump HDM sales numbers, it's conveniently a BD player. So which is it? A game platform where subsidies are accepted, or a BD player leveraging subsidies to gain long term licensing, which would also have to legitimize Toshiba's subsidies?


This brings up another question in that while Sony is OK with subsidizing the PS3 to gain HDM market share, other CEs (including Sony) are holding margins on standalones to make money. Why? If the BDA is strong, and has its foot on the throat of HD-DVD PRG, why not subsidize now, saturate the hardware market and force the remaining studios to switch? Why keep margins high at the risk of dragging out the HDM uncertainty by keeping player cost high? If there truly is competition, and everyone is confident in Blu-ray, why is no one dropping below the $400 barrier to get the upper hand both in terms of sales and marketshare?


Either there isn't that much confidence in the Blu-ray platform longterm (outside of Sony), forcing CEs to maximize margins now, or the BDA is "in agreement on pricing" which means all the claims of market competition between CEs is not really true. If the CEs really want Blu-ray to win and aren't having their hand forced, this "catch-22" sales model doesn't make any sense.

Sony would have subsidised the PS3 regardless of whether it had Blu-ray or not so your point is moot.


As Amir pointed out earlier in the thread, there are three stages to a product lifecycle for something like DVD.


1. Direct profits off the player.


2. Profits off the chips inside the player


3. Indirect profits from royalties.


Toshiba have basically given up on stage one and two, where the BDA manufacturers have not.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/12821595


It's an agreement to end the war, so indefinite. What is the point in releasing on HD DVD if your move has killed it...

So, if the move does not end the war ... do they have an option to try the other side? Or do they just stop releasing in HDM altogether?
 

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Now in other news.. Friday was my last day at Microsoft! Yes, that darn ice cream really got to me
.


I must say this is a difficult departure. I love the company and the people I worked with from folks at the lowest ranks all the way up to Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates. Having worked at half a dozen companies over my 30 year career, Microsoft ranks at the top of class with unbelievably high percentage of smart, passionate and driven individuals. Fortunately, the departure is very much amicable on both sides.


As a way of background, I came to Microsoft as part of a start-up we sold to the company some 11 years ago. Having worked non-stop for over a decade, when the last set of re-orgs came about, I thought maybe it is time to take a step back and take a new perspective on life. My oldest son is already in college and the other two are a couple of years away. Making a long story short, I decided to pass on being part of the new structure and managing a large organization again.


So I spent the last three months thinking of new things and came up with two product ideas that most of us here would kill for. Alas, while they are very exciting to us enthusiasts, I'm not sure they are the kinds of businesses that Microsoft should be in. Boy do I wish sometimes that there were a lot more of us than there are. So I decided to take the ideas with me into retirement. And here I am.


I must stay it was great fun brainstorming and not worrying about managing multi-hundred person teams. The joys of the start-up came back after a decade of working for a big public company!


Of course, no sooner than I let people know that I am leaving Microsoft that folks started to approach me left and right with other opportunities on the outside. So who knows how long this will last. But for now, I am going to try to catch up on personal projects piling up like unpacking the Vudu (
), completing the audio testing, finishing the woodworking projects frozen in time in my shop, going on a few photo trips, firing up the computer controlled smoker to make some great BBQ, and of course, spending more time with the family.


Now I know a lot of you are surprised by this news. But don't say I didn't provide some breadcrumbs that this was coming
. Did anyone notice that my signature says retired? And that it does not mention Microsoft? Likewise, when I talked about our new vacation home, in reality that is our retirement home that we are remodeling. Can't wait to send the kids off and move there permanently and pick up fishing and farming full-time! NOT
OK, so I am lousy in providing hints like this
.


So there it is. My life an open book on AVS! Don't say I ever hide anything from you!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdg345 /forum/post/12821759


So, if the move does not end the war ... do they have an option to try the other side? Or do they just stop releasing in HDM altogether?

Well we're talking hypotheticals here, if Blu-ray doesn't win the war, chances are the HDM market will be too small to justify releases on either. I don' think that is going to happen though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer /forum/post/12814420


Look we can all agree Warner's decision is a blow to HD DVD, but the format is still an excellent solution for every HDTV owner throughout the world. And BD equipment now costs significantly more and the replication still is more difficult to produce, particularly for any dual layer product.

The only BD equipment that costs significantly more is the replication lines which the consumer doesn't buy and all of the major replicators have already added BD50 lines ( http://www.emedialive.com/articles/r...leid=11425#ixl ) that get yields up to 80%* (*verified by Cinram International, January 2008) - this doesn't seem like any sort of issue that will affect the consumer in anyway nor does it seem to be affecting 6 of the 8 biggest studios on the planet.


Based on the content available and what lies in the future ahead, HD DVD is hardly an excellent solution for every HDTV owner throughout the world by anyone's standards. Neither format can be considered an excellent solution until all major studios are releasing content on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer /forum/post/12814420


The only reason other CE companies did not make HD DVD players is strictly because Toshiba is the only CE equipment manufacturer supporting the format.


In addition, we all know RCA Thompson and Onkyo/Integra have made HD DVD players. So other CE manufacturers are interested in the format.

I don't understand. It seems like a contradiction within two paragraphs. Aren't those players all Toshiba's players that you're mentioning? Even Philips now has their own R&D'd BD player coming out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merrick97

With all due respect, it is well known and universally agreed that replication is cheaper for HD-DVD but that made no difference in Warner choosing bluray over HD-DVD. To me that is all the proof that we needed in regards to blurays replication.


Dave and Max can you agree with me on this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/12820719


In a nutshell.


I agree as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/12820719


In a nutshell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/12821595


It's an agreement to end the war, so indefinite. What is the point in releasing on HD DVD if your move has killed it...

Max,


I have been told that there are performance clauses in the contract with Warner (and the same for Paramount with HD DVD). If these aren't met, the contract can become void.


David
 

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has the bda made overtures to hd dvd to somehow expedite the end of this war or are they happy just letting it languish and die a slow death?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc /forum/post/12816500


I am a little confused on this. So less compression due to higher bandwidth wouldn't translate to better PQ? Or am I looking at this and saying it wrong?

Once you reach the threshold of the encode looking like the source, it looks like the source. By definition, more bits won't make something transparent MORE transparent.

Quote:
Also, isn't your response based on what we know and tech used as opposed to theorectical tech potential that hasn't been used?

We're still limited by 1920x1080 pixels using 4:2:0 sampling 23.976 times a second. There isn't anywhere for a lot of magical additional image data to go even if we could scan it in. If anything, improvements in scanning technology reduce noise more than anything else.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn /forum/post/12822786


Max,


I have been told that there are performance clauses in the contract with Warner (and the same for Paramount with HD DVD). If these aren't met, the contract can become void.


David

You see, as a journalist you have much more freedom to talk about this stuff, I on the other hand have my hands tied behind my back.


Now that somebody else has mentioned it though - Blu-ray has to meet certain criteria in disc sales and player sales, but the targets are pretty low and Blu is way ahead of the game in both respects. So I don't see a realistic move to be made on this front.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis /forum/post/12818247


Thanks to you both for the information.


bkilian, meet Smokey. Smokey this is bkilian. The goal is full certification of DivX before the Spring Update.


You guys work it out. I will supply the as-needed beer.

What's the scenario you're shooting for here?


Practially, what's normallly called a "Divx" fine is really MPEG-4 part 2 video and MP3 audio in a .AVI file. We've got rather more IP in there than Divx Networks does
. Lots of those files made with non-Divx tools, typically via the open-source xvid codec.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn /forum/post/12822786


Max,


I have been told that there are performance clauses in the contract with Warner (and the same for Paramount with HD DVD). If these aren't met, the contract can become void.


David

Thank you Dave, this makes more sense.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn /forum/post/12822786


Max,


I have been told that there are performance clauses in the contract with Warner (and the same for Paramount with HD DVD). If these aren't met, the contract can become void.


David

Performance in terms of hardware sales? If yes, do they break down PS3 and Blu-ray stand-alone sales (with respect to Warner Bros. of course)?
 

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For any blu-ray insiders...


Are the BD CE companies planning to do anything to respond to Toshiba's lower pricing of their hd-dvd players?


The BDA can tout their studio advantage but if nobody is buying the players, sales will continue to lag behind dvd. Everytime an hd-dvd player is sold, the blu-side loses a potential customer until that customer is again in the market for a new player (which prob won't be for another 2+ yrs).
 

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Dahlsim;12814453What happened to the 1000 Indies and burn on demand hd dvd program that was announced some time ago?[/QUOTE said:
Real Soon Now, I'm told. There's been months of furious technical work ongoing, even though there hasn't been a lot in the press about it recently.

Quote:
Also is it possible to have the 720p VC1 content on XBLM made available for ownership in a burn on demand scenario? I'm imagining users to be able to order a disk copy of a movie they rented for instance and have it burned on demand and shipped to them. Is this a viable scenario and would the on demand burn fall under the same exclusivity contracts as an hd dvd rom?

XBLM content isn't encoded to HD DVD specs (longer GOP, for example) and doesn't use HD DVD compatible audio, so it's not something that'd directly work in existing players. Download-and-burn HD DVD is an interesting market, though, even if it would requre another encode (really not that hard these days).

Quote:
The quality is not quite hd dvd / BD but it's often quite good especially for it's relative file size. The ownership model is what I'd like to see.

There's quite a lot we can do to push bitrates lower than they are today if needed (like getting full movies on DVD-9). The released tools have more focused on reducing the need for segment reencoding than on pushing bitrates below what's available on HD DVD.


That said, it's a nice thing that we do VC-1 for streaming as well, so we have a lot of low bitrate expertise we can apply to HD. With technologies like Silverlight, we're doing a lot more with HD (mainly 720p) at web rates.


Check out these clips:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/...der&type=video


1 Mbps 960x540p24! I encoded them myself (oh, vanity!) using an earlier version of the VC-1 Encoder SDK. I think I could push them down to 800 Kbps with the release version and some new tricks I've been playing around with (I-Frame only DQuant!).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner /forum/post/12822853


Once you reach the threshold of the encode looking like the source, it looks like the source. By definition, more bits won't make something transparent MORE transparent.



We're still limited by 1920x1080 pixels using 4:2:0 sampling 23.976 times a second. There isn't anywhere for a lot of magical additional image data to go even if we could scan it in. If anything, improvements in scanning technology reduce noise more than anything else.

So are you saying that the additional bandwidth provided by the Blu-ray disc specification compared to the HD-DVD specification would not offer any advantages for VC-1?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpower1987 /forum/post/12819633


1. EU import duty on all tech made or designed outside of the 27 EU nations.


2. VAT levied by all EU nations is included in the SRP, that $300 doesn't include the local or state tax.


3. The price in the UK has always been higher for all technologies, did we get £50 HD DVD players when the USA got $99 players, I think not.


As for the tech side, it really isn't my speciality, so I will leave this to Talk or paidgeek if he comes back.

What if, say hypothetically, the same company charged over twice as much (including vat) for the same make and model of a product in one country as they did in another, and the product itself had things in place to stop you importing it. Would be totally okay within the law (not anti-competitive/price fixing or any bad stuff?)
 

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On a completely different note.


Do any insiders have any idea when Warner might FINALLY announce many of the missing bluray titles?


I know it has been rumored that Batman Begins will come right before the Dark Knight.


Nevertheless, I dont think anyone has asked about specific titles in quite some time!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs /forum/post/12823457


What if, say hypothetically, the same company charged over twice as much (including vat) for the same make and model of a product in one country as they did in another, and the product itself had things in place to stop you importing it. Would be totally okay within the law (not anti-competitive/price fixing or any bad stuff?)

If you are referencing the Lik-Sang case, then Sony were well within their rights to get the court injunction.


That is my final say on the matter.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merrick97 /forum/post/12823464


On a completely different note.


Do any insiders have any idea when Warner might FINALLY announce many of the missing bluray titles?


I know it has been rumored that Batman Begins will come right before the Dark Knight.


Nevertheless, I dont think anyone has asked about specific titles in quite some time!

Soon enough, patience...
 
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