AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello
I just was getting ready to try to sell for probably peanuts compared to what I paid new .... a low hour BenQ W7000 that haven't hardly used except when first bought a few times. But the thought hit me yesterday that one of my son's back yards where our one 7 year old granddaughter lives with he and his wife ..... is beautifully situated for lawn seating and an inflatable screen. For 2D on high lamp would an 8 1/2 to 10 foot wide 16x9 AR work and not be dim? Spec'd at 2000 lumens in its high lamp uncalibrated highest torch mode I guess. I have it from trying 3D back about 5 years ago before JVC RS500, in probably less bright adjustments. But I saw it on an 8 1/2' wide 16x9 2.8 High Power in my theater perfectly centered and seated. Plenty of light on low.

For me and "backyard thinking" .... bigger is better than worrying about calibration. But it should still have what .... 1500 or so lumens in "decent mode" on high? What are my choices here please? Just hoping someone will have thoughts that are up to date in this area of inflatable screens and won't tell me to read up myself. As have I always done over the years when I have knowledge of what people are asking about.

Back yard fun and soda's, popcorn and beer ....what a better idea than 200-300 bucks selling it? Have got nice bluray players and more than decent 2 bookshelf type speakers that can be used.

Thanks


Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Hello
I just was getting ready to try to sell for probably peanuts compared to what I paid new .... a low hour BenQ W7000 that haven't hardly used except when first bought a few times. But the thought hit me yesterday that one of my son's back yards where our one 7 year old granddaughter lives with he and his wife ..... is beautifully situated for lawn seating and an inflatable screen. For 2D on high lamp would an 8 1/2 to 10 foot wide 16x9 AR work and not be dim? Spec'd at 2000 lumens in its high lamp uncalibrated highest torch mode I guess. I have it from trying 3D back about 5 years ago before JVC RS500, in probably less bright adjustments. But I saw it on an 8 1/2' wide 16x9 2.8 High Power in my theater perfectly centered and seated. Plenty of light on low.

For me and "backyard thinking" .... bigger is better than worrying about calibration. But it should still have what .... 1500 or so lumens in "decent mode" on high? What are my choices here please? Just hoping someone will have thoughts that are up to date in this area of inflatable screens and won't tell me to read up myself. As have I always done over the years when I have knowledge of what people are asking about.

Back yard fun and soda's, popcorn and beer ....what a better idea than 200-300 bucks selling it? Have got nice bluray players and more than decent 2 bookshelf type speakers that can be used.

Thanks


Ron
Yep, good idea and you'll have lots of fun!

The key words in your post were 2.8 High Power. Unfortunately, without a high gain screen, your Benq is is likely to be around 8 foot lamberts on a 214" 16x9 screen assuming a 1.0 gain screen. That's on the dim side and then you throw in a full moon and stars and any outdoor light pollution, house lights, street lights, etc. and you have a dim image. You really want to have 20-30 foot lamberts outdoors from my experience.

Most outdoor inflatable screens are 1.0-1.1 gain. It's not so easy to find higher gain material for outdoor applications.

I would suggest a 144" screen size with that projector.

I'm not a big fan of inflatable screens, especially the inexpensive ones. You have the blower noise to deal with, they don't do well with a breeze blowing, and the screen material has a propensity to sag.

You might look at a LOCH IWS140 for a lower cost unit at ~$350-$400.

https://www.lochusa.com/product/is-140/

A good inflatable screen at 144" would be an Open Air 12' unit. They go for ~$1100.

https://www.openaircinema.us/collections/home-screens-and-systems/products/home-outdoor-movie-screen-kit-12

The other option is a portable screen.

VisualApex makes a 144" 1.1 gain that's very well built and would do a great job for you without the hassle of a blowup unit. You'll have a better screen for less money.

https://visualapexscreens.com/collections/portable-projector-screens/products/144-projector-screen


The down side right now is that with the virus and the middle of summer, everyone has had the same idea and it's difficult to find a screen to buy. Most everyone is sold out and prices have been jacked up.

Another possibility and they are in stock is a DIY from Carl's Place. You can get a 6'x10.5' 140" finished edge screen for $149. Carl's will sell you a kit with fittings to build a frame from 1' EMT Conduit for ~$300 including the screen material.

https://www.carlofet.com/shop/projector-screen-material?screen_material=FlexiWhite&seam=Seamless&finished_edge=Finished+with+Black+Vinyl+Edges+and+Grommets&packaging=Folded+in+a+Box


If you want to try and push the screen size, you could maybe squeeze 165" if your lamp is in good condition. But again with that projector and being outdoors, I would recommend 144" max.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you b curry
It sounds like the lower size I mentioned then ...... 16x9 8'6" wide would be the right size for the 1.0 surface at approximately 120-125" diagonal in whatever form factor I picked / also can find if that's an issue ..... would be the best size for my W7000. And never even think about 3D with it. Just shows what great screens for 3D and modern HDR projectors the old Daylight 2.8 micro beads were. And they stopped making that one like about 1 year into 3D. Never understood that. I really like the look of the big black inflated frame around the screen area. Just says, "fun" to me. I've seen some on Amazon that might work for under $200, if I read all the reviews and find one that everyone for the most part is happy about the material construction and function.

This might be an option but I'm leary of any types I'm seeing big wrinkles on. Will look at standups too. I really liked the one brand you had above and said it was likely sold out. Nice looking design and construction.

https://www.amazon.com/Inflatable-OUTTOY-Projection-Backyard-Celebrations-16FT/dp/B07T9XZR16/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=Inflatable+outdoor+screen&qid=1594774912&sr=8-10
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Thank you b curry
It sounds like the lower size I mentioned then ...... 16x9 8'6" wide would be the right size for the 1.0 surface at approximately 120-125" diagonal in whatever form factor I picked / also can find if that's an issue ..... would be the best size for my W7000. And never even think about 3D with it. Just shows what great screens for 3D and modern HDR projectors the old Daylight 2.8 micro beads were. And they stopped making that one like about 1 year into 3D. Never understood that. I really like the look of the big black inflated frame around the screen area. Just says, "fun" to me. I've seen some on Amazon that might work for under $200, if I read all the reviews and find one that everyone for the most part is happy about the material construction and function.

This might be an option but I'm leary of any types I'm seeing big wrinkles on. Will look at standups too. I really liked the one brand you had above and said it was likely sold out. Nice looking design and construction.

https://www.amazon.com/Inflatable-OUTTOY-Projection-Backyard-Celebrations-16FT/dp/B07T9XZR16/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=Inflatable+outdoor+screen&qid=1594774912&sr=8-10
If I understand correctly now, you've referenced the outside dimensions of the screen and it has a 120" viewing surface. Yes, that size, 120", would be even better.

It is a shame that Da-lite stopped making the High Power as it solved the problem for many who wanted a large image with a lower lumen projector.

As you can see in the user photo's from the inflatable screen that you linked to for sale on amazon, every user/owner's photo shows the screen with wrinkles in the screens surface. That's what I've seen or the problem in all of these lower cost inflatable screens. I agree, they do look fun, but they simply don't have the construction structure to provide the necessary tension to keep the screen surface flat.

FWIW, here's a photo of a 135" Elite Yard Master 2 in service at a home in Ohio.



EDIT: Corrected image/screen size and brand. Thanks to @confinoj for his photo and correction.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Yes, I wonder for like a 16' roughly sized inflatable, are there any brands people have used here that with good tie down rope provisions they come with, if they can be snugged up enough to take most of the screen wrinkles out? And at what price. Really don't want to be spending a bunch over $200 but would take a look up to some price point, and also would like to know if any suggestion in that area if that model and brand seems robust enough to continue to hold up several or more showings a year?

I DO like the Visual Apex one size fits all stand up frames. People on Amazon seem to rave about them. But only size seeming available for actual screen material they had was 100" diagonal. I think the great size for me would be 132".
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
26,161 Posts
An outdoor (for us inflatable screen) really served a lot of ppl over the years. We bought ours from Walmart, not as nice as some, but really served it's purpose.

I used an old infocus projector, old receiver, PA speakers and dvd player. We ran two channel sound and 480 lines of resolution. So you can see we were pretty Low Fi.

Once our son was older, we started showing movies for the church youth group/families. Most recently, we downsized our home and we donated all the gear to a boy's group home in town. They were thrilled to get the equipment. I know they've had a number of movies this spring/summerr.

I'm throwing our experience out as other options down the road for using your outdoor set up.


good luck!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,358 Posts
FWIW, here's a photo of a VisualApex 120" in service at a home in Ohio.

This is actually a 135" Elite Yard Master 2 (my photo) but I believe you have said the screen material is the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
This is actually a 135" Elite Yard Master 2 (my photo) but I believe you have said the screen material is the same.

Yes, it is. Thanks for the correction!

It's a great photo as it gives you some scale to compare size with your house as a back drop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
An outdoor (for us inflatable screen) really served a lot of ppl over the years. We bought ours from Walmart, not as nice as some, but really served it's purpose.

I used an old infocus projector, old receiver, PA speakers and dvd player. We ran two channel sound and 480 lines of resolution. So you can see we were pretty Low Fi.

Once our son was older, we started showing movies for the church youth group/families. Most recently, we downsized our home and we donated all the gear to a boy's group home in town. They were thrilled to get the equipment. I know they've had a number of movies this spring/summerr.

I'm throwing our experience out as other options down the road for using your outdoor set up.


good luck!!
Thanks for that history of what it was like for you and the good times you had, rboster. As mentioned I look at these larger than the screen area by a bunch big black inflatable frames and it just looks like FUN. Especially to kids I would imagine. Like me. LOL.

Still hoping to hear that it's maybe possible with some brands of these inflatables, with the tie down secure points and ropes pulled taught with better and longer stakes if needed, to get most of the wrinkles out? Are they an issue more, or less, with 1.0 gain screen surfaces compared to a retro reflective 2.8 HP, which is all I've ever known in my theater?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Thanks for that history of what it was like for you and the good times you had, rboster. As mentioned I look at these larger than the screen area by a bunch big black inflatable frames and it just looks like FUN. Especially to kids I would imagine. Like me. LOL.

Still hoping to hear that it's maybe possible with some brands of these inflatables, with the tie down secure points and ropes pulled taught with better and longer stakes if needed, to get most of the wrinkles out? Are they an issue more, or less, with 1.0 gain screen surfaces compared to a retro reflective 2.8 HP, which is all I've ever known in my theater?
Well, I'll jump in again as you don't seem to be getting a lot help.

Yes, it's possible to do what you're wanting or asking to do. But probably not at your price point. At least not that I have seen or know of.

The lower cost inflatables are usually constructed of a lightweight nylon fabric. That fabric is usually quite porous which allows quite a bit of air to escape through the fabric weave and some have a thin plastic bag liner to help slow down the leaking air. Again, being a light weight fabric, it does not support a lot of weight. The actual screen material is often a light weight plastic/vinyl or a shear spandex or nylon fabric attached with some Velcro to the surface of the inflatable frame. The inflated frame is simply not rigid enough to tension the screen material to remove wrinkles. In fact the screen frame often sags under its own weight which exacerbates the problem. On top of that, tie down ropes add additional weight to the problem.

The better inflatable screens use a vinyl reinforced fabric for their construction. Something like a Bounce House material. This kind of material can be pressurized with a blower so as to be rigid enough to keep the screen material flat or provide a wrinkleless projection surface. There are even sealed screens made of this material that are used to float a screen on a lake or in a swimming pool.

The problem is that they are quite expensive. The company Airscreen makes probably the best inflatable screens that I know of. The Airscreen Nano is the one that would be in your size range. But it costs just under $3000. So I saw no real point in suggesting it earlier.

The Open Air screens that I suggested earlier are one of the cheaper ones.

There is a company, Superior Inflatables, that makes a good small screen but they also start at ~$1000 and go up in price quickly.

Here's a link: https://superiorinflatables.com/product/theoriginal-backyard-pro-inflatable-movie-screen/

I know you've got your heart set on it, but I have not seen or know of a low cost inflatable that does not have this structure and screen wrinkle problem. I don't pretend to know all, but I've been doing backyard movies for some years now and home theater since the Kloss Nova Beam/Advent days.

Best of luck with your search.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Hi b curry
Your kind reply and my trigger finger on Amazon's site crossed. I ordered the 100" diagonal Visual Apex. I can tell it's a great solution and stand set up / entire package. People are for the most part raving about them in the reviews. Different locations between my back yard and both son's back yards we can sit as close as desired with comfortable things. At that size too with my W7000 on high I should have plenty of pop. Plus if I go rear screen (I get the impression just as bright if projector same distance as front projection .... is that true? And I can wide angle and get close to screen from the rear so probably brighter than longer by 2 or 3 times front throw? I had 12 bucks credit so out the door like $174 roughly and they're expected in stock Aug 4th. I have 4 great heavy sandbags too that I use to weight base of tripods.

I think I did good? It was your information and you jumped right in with the first reply. Many thanks!!

If by chance during the wait the 110" just listed as out of stock same as other larger sizes .... becomes available, and it's not too much more I will take it instead. But not holding my breath.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Hi b curry
Your kind reply and my trigger finger on Amazon's site crossed. I ordered the 100" diagonal Visual Apex. I can tell it's a great solution and stand set up / entire package. People are for the most part raving about them in the reviews. Different locations between my back yard and both son's back yards we can sit as close as desired with comfortable things. At that size too with my W7000 on high I should have plenty of pop. Plus if I go rear screen (I get the impression just as bright if projector same distance as front projection .... is that true? And I can wide angle and get close to screen from the rear so probably brighter than longer by 2 or 3 times front throw? I had 12 bucks credit so out the door like $174 roughly and they're expected in stock Aug 4th. I have 4 great heavy sandbags too that I use to weight base of tripods.

I think I did good? It was your information and you jumped right in with the first reply. Many thanks!!

If by chance during the wait the 110" just listed as out of stock same as other larger sizes .... becomes available, and it's not too much more I will take it instead. But not holding my breath.

Good for you! I think you're going to really like it. I've been using their 144" screen for 3 years now and I love it. They have excellent customer support as well if you need to contact them.

The rear projection material has a little less gain, under 1.0. Yes, if the projector is placed closer to the screen, it will be brighter as point source light is subject to the inverse square law. But to be honest, you won't see much difference if at all within the projectors zoom range.

Rear projection has a propensity to hot spot the screen for on axis viewing so it's usually actually better to have the projector throw further back. The available throw distance will be the same for front or rear projection. If you do decide to use rear projection, don't forget to make the image change in the projectors settings if it has them as you will have a mirror image with rear projection and some things will look "backwards".

You should be able to have the W7000 as close as 12' to the screen or 17' back with a 100" screen so seating should not be a problem with front projection. The front projection material has more gain as well. I tend to stay away from rear projection because of the hot spotting issue. I do use rear projection for Halloween projection mapping for outdoor effects where the hot spotting issue is not as critical.

Yes, it's going to "POP" on a 100" screen with the W7000. You should get an image close to your High Power on that size. It's going to look like a big LED TV a night.

Some tips on using the screen...

When you unfold the frame, don't snap the 4 corner gussets in place until after you have snapped the screen material to the frame. This will relieve some tension from the screen material and make it easier to snap to the frame. Likewise, unsnap the 4 corner gussets first to relieve tension from the frame before you remove/unsnap the screen material from the frame.

Snap the screen material to each corner first and then move to the centers and snap out to the corners. This pattern seems to make snapping the material a little less stressful.

I've never had to use sand bags. The paracord and stakes that come with the screen are very good at keeping the screen on the ground and stable in any breeze up to about 12MPH. You can buy some different color paracord (yellow, orange, etc.) for higher visibility to avoid a tripping hazard. I actually use black paracord to kind of hide it at night.

You will have some fold lines in the screen material. Don't worry about them. They are typically not visible with a projected image and will fall out with some time if the material is left installed on the frame or placed in some sunshine.

Use distilled water and a soft microfiber cloth if you have to clean the surface.

It will take a bit longer to set up the screen the first one or two times. But after you get the hang of it, it's less than a 10 minute job.

Any disappointment for not having the blow up screen can probably be offset with a big bowl of ice cream or a couple of cold ones. :)

Enjoy your new backyard theater!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Are you saying the standard screen material that comes with the frame, projection distance equal, is actually brighter from the front? That's good news too as in my yard I actually can't get back behind 12' for rear with where I would want to put it, and 17' for front is the better location. And can easily be done in the other yards. Can the screen be snapped in place once I get the hang of it by one person or are two people needed pretty much? Thanks so much again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Ooops, I guess I didn't order a Visual Apex 100". The frame looked so similar and was not paying attention. Plenty of time to cancel this as not available to ship until August 4th. It seems to have really good reviews? (Wow just looked at it again and NOW is saying out of stock and don't know when available again. So I guess I ordered when there was a confirmed amount of them coming in and can ship on Aug 4) Good close up of the screen material in one of the photos. Black backing, middle layer and surface layer.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B3QR1BA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With the Visual Apex I guess this answers my question above, it does come in both rear and front projection materials? Apparently all that's available on Amazon, don't see anything on manufacturer's site ..... is this which is rear projection.

https://www.amazon.com/Visual-Apex-Projection-Material-viewable/dp/B07F2NN3SH/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=18NLSSQ4EFLXY&dchild=1&keywords=visual+apex+projector+screen&qid=1595097663&sprefix=Visual+Apex,aps,241&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyOU5ETTFQOTlMTVBSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzU2NDQyM0dCRUtQWVhQVlJCMCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTI0NDIzMUk0MFdFVVFOVDZTJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Does anyone know if and when the manufacturer will have more of the front projection material in any sizes available, by chance, if you have been on the phone with them? Great looking stands, though as mentioned above the one I actually ordered seems kind of similar and well thought of.

Of course come Monday I can call them too and ask.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Are you saying the standard screen material that comes with the frame, projection distance equal, is actually brighter from the front? That's good news too as in my yard I actually can't get back behind 12' for rear with where I would want to put it, and 17' for front is the better location. And can easily be done in the other yards. Can the screen be snapped in place once I get the hang of it by one person or are two people needed pretty much? Thanks so much again!
With VisualApex, the standard screen material is front projection only. The screen gain is spec'd at 1.1. It's probably more like 1.05-1.08.

The VisualApex rear projection material is spec'd at 0.8 gain.

The throw for your Benq W7000 on a 100" screen is ~12'-17' with the zoom range.

Regardless of front or rear projection, the throw distance stays the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
With VisualApex, the standard screen material is front projection only. The screen gain is spec'd at 1.1. It's probably more like 1.05-1.08.

The VisualApex rear projection material is spec'd at 0.8 gain.

The throw for your Benq W7000 on a 100" screen is ~12'-17' with the zoom range.

Regardless of front or rear projection, the throw distance stays the same.
Yeah I see. What Amazon has is the rear projection replacement 100" screen for Visual Apex.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Ooops, I guess I didn't order a Visual Apex 100". The frame looked so similar and was not paying attention. Plenty of time to cancel this as not available to ship until August 4th. It seems to have really good reviews?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B3QR1BA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With the Visual Apex I guess this answers my question above, it does come in both rear and front projection materials? Apparently all that's available on Amazon, don't see anything on manufacturer's site ..... is this which is rear projection.

https://www.amazon.com/Visual-Apex-Projection-Material-viewable/dp/B07F2NN3SH/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=18NLSSQ4EFLXY&dchild=1&keywords=visual+apex+projector+screen&qid=1595097663&sprefix=Visual+Apex,aps,241&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVk, UXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyOU5ETTFQOTlMTVBSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzU2NDQyM0dCRUtQWVhQVlJCMCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTI0NDIzMUk0MFdFVVFOVDZTJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Does anyone know if and when the manufacturer will have more of the front projection material in any sizes available, by chance, if you have been on the phone with them? Great looking stands, though as mentioned above the one I actually ordered seems kind of similar and well thought of.

Of course come Monday I can call them too and ask.

OK you've linked an Elite Screens Yard Master 2. It's essentially the same screen as the VisualApex. I believe that they are coming from the same manufacture in China. However, the VisualApex screen frame is using a little bit heaver gauge aluminum frame compared to the Yardmaster 2. The Yardmaster 2 is a good screen however.

As I said in the earlier post, screens are getting hard to find as everyone has had the same idea to have outdoor movies for the summer. There are two new commercial drive-in's that have opened near me this summer and they are packed every night.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Hello again. According to original information my 100" Elite Yard Master 2 should be shipping in just 2 days. I did call the Visual Apex phone # to see if could piece together their system but had to leave a message and no one called back. Probably out of what is needed.

But I am just wondering once it arrives and wherever first between 3 houses we try this for back yard, how often does it happen that you do that with one of these screens and secured snugly with 4 tension cords, however anchored (I can use sandbags) ..... but not too tight that will rip the support loops ...... does it happen that it winds up being too breezy for these screens? Seems like that could happen a lot for these stand up types? Is it just like 6 or 7mph breeze is all that is safe to anchor for?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
There is an eye screw that attaches at the top of the frame. You use the rope/cord to tie off at this eye screw and there is no stress or attachment to the screen material. I make a simple loop and slip it through the eye screw and thread the cord ends back through the loop making a simple cleat type hitch.

The instructions will tell you to place the stakes through the holes in the base of the legs and then tie the cord off at the stakes. I instead place the stakes about 8'-10' away from the screen sides at an ~45º angle to the screen and then tie off.

I never use sandbags. Tying off on the screen top and staking results in a much shorter moment arm and presents much less risk of bending or stressing the frame in a sudden, strong gust of wind. It will also make sandbagging unnecessary.

I simply check the local weather report and look outside to view the local conditions and use some common sense. If there is a constant wind of 10mph or greater, I don't put up the screen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Ahhh ...... got it, thanks! Once again. Yes, now with the sandbags since you first advised me off from that (common sense would have too I'm sure once I thought it through :) :) ....... I'm meaning in lieu of stakes, spreading the cords wide as you say, ...... a couple of back yard locations will not allow stakes or stakes on all 4 points. I have these approximately 20lb bags left over from a tarp we used to set up on water skiing beaches. I suck at knots so hoping I can find some strong cords with loops at the "ground" ends with some sort of simple sliding mechanism to pull up to make the lengths taught.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top