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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi:


I'm new to this board, and I attended the CEDIA in Indy. I have an X1 that I purchased right before the show, but I did not open until I got back home (just in case I found something better). The X1 is an awsome value for the money. I have a HTPC, and yesterday I added Time Warner HD box, and I amazed Discovery HD and HBO HD. This projector has have a resoution greater than 800x600, but maybe its just that pristine digital signal. Okay enough and on to the news:


I talked a Tech guy from Infocus for a two day period and here is my report. The new X1 (new model number unsure), will have the DCDi removed as has been posted on this board. Also I think it will have some of the same enchancements of the 4805 (less the Faroudja). The 4805 will have a new multi segment color wheel. Contrast will be bumped up, and component inputs. Both will be available sometime in the first quarter.


So IMHO if you are thinking of buying an X1, get it now before that strip out the DCDi, but if you use a HTPC connected to VGA then maybe waiting for the "improved" X1 with it's increased contrast ratio may make since.


I visited all the DLP places, and the demo I like was at the Toshiba both they had an HD feed from the Jay Leno show and ther new HD+ projector in the $5k range. This is THE one I would buy. I saw the Infocus 7805 and it was good, but I thought there demo could have been better. Finally the Sony reflective LCD $25K was THE best digital projector I have seen. Text was razor sharp. Stunning is all I can say. After the demo I went up to the screen and could only see pixels if I was about 3" from the screen!!!
 

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I think this makes sense.


While I like the Faroudja de-interlacing for my laser disks, I suspect many X1 users are connecting progressive scan DVD players and therefore not using the X1's de-interlacing. So it makes sense to reduce the cost of the machine.


Any idea of what the price for the 4805 will be? I assume it will have the SVGA version of the "dimple-free" TI technology.
 

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Do you know if the improved color wheel for the 4805 will be RGBRGB instead of RGBW? It never made sense to be that Infocus was positioning the 4800 as part of the Screenplay line with a presentation wheel. A home theater color wheel would go a long way to making it an interesting projector choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
First sorry about my grammar and spelling last post I should have proof read. Anyway I'll try to answer some of the questions. I am not sure but I think the contrast will be bumped up to the 1500-1600 range. The color wheel will be a multi color segment wheel, but dont know the speed.


Dont have any idea on pricing, and I am not sure if Infocus will do what they are doing with the 7200 and 7205 (with the HD+ chips) on the 4800/4805. There is a $2k spread between the 7200/7205 and they say the will sell both. However the real question is how long will they do this? No idea.


I would look for the X1 to maybe be discountinued during or after the Xmas season.


Here is another note. I was there at the booth when a Dealer was talking to one of the Infocus reps and telling them that he hates the X1 since it is hurting them. He wants Infocus to not include any video features on the projectors that are trageted for biz, like the X1.


IMHO I think Infocus will introduce a true succesor to the X1 late next year, ie maybe a HD chip set (1280x720), hopfully under $2k.
 

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Yeah, I gotta say the 4805 actually sounds interesting. It's still a lot of extra money to pay for mainly just a better color wheel, assuming the price difference will remain the same. At least now there is a difference
 

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I'm not sure I agree with the direction InFocus seems to be going with the SP4805 vs X2 in the short term. Sure, make a stripped down X2 for those who don't need the Faroudja, but they should also continue to sell an X-equivalent of the SP4805 (eg. an X1b) with all the same features of the SP4805.


I feel for the ScreenPlay dealers that want something to compete with the X1, but I honestly don't think ScreenPlay dealers should be participating at the bottom end of the price range at all. It actually "cheapens" the image of the ScreenPlay product line and dealerships. But if the SP4800 product actually placated them, fine, no harm done to the X1's competitive position because they were basically the same projector and those in the know realized they could get an X1 for less money.


But I think taking features away from the InFocus X (crossover) products and only making them available in the the SP4805 will hurt InFocus's invasion (invention?) of the low-end Home Theater market. InFocus has to do whatever they can to keep pricing competitive with other manufacturers, and at the bottom end of the market there isn't going to be room to pad the price and limit distribution to HT specialty shops.


That premium pricing and limited outlet approach may work at the higher end where customers are expecting a higher level of sales assistance and product knowledge, some consulting and perhaps even custom HT design. But InFocus also needs continue selling low-end HT projectors directly to the mass market via electronics retail outlets and on the Internet. Only competitive pricing and wide availability will allow InFocus to continue to bring HT to the masses like they did with the X1.


So I'm glad to hear of improvements to the SP4800, and I even think a stripped down X2 is a good idea. But I firmly believe InFocus will be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't sell an X1 equivalent of the SP4805.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
good points, I agree, Technut C, I think Infocus must do a careful balance of selling "X1 type products" along with the Screenplay line. If they abandon the low end, the Big Boys, ie Sony, Panasonic, etc, will take their market share, with cheaper products, and leave Infocus with a narrow market of presentation machines, and low volume high end products.


BTW good job on the X1 faq, your site helped me a lot.
 

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I used to love Infocus....more and more I see them trying to pad their bottom line at the expense of being honest with their customers. It all started with the release of an X1 clone (4800) at an inflated price JUST because of different software....They refuse to let X1 users upgrade their software even though they know a lot of us use the X1 for home theatre. This kind of pulling the wool over our eyes is what makes me lose faith. Still love my X1!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by technut Canada
I feel for the ScreenPlay dealers that want something to compete with the X1, but I honestly don't think ScreenPlay dealers should be participating at the bottom end of the price range at all.
I don't think ScreenPlay dealers want to participate at the bottom end either...but I think they don't want anyone else to either. Hence that dealer's desire for all HT features removed from the presentation line.


I've been accused of being a conspiracist (and worse) for disliking the HT dealer network (mostly by, um, dealers) but its acts like this that makes me happier to have purchased all of my projectors from local presentation dealers rather than their HT brethern.


If I need installation, these guys install into megabuck conference rooms. I think they can handle the fit and finish for the usual HT setup. For support I get 3 business day turnaround via FedEx. The projectors are considered business critical so the service is pretty decent.


The X1 fit very nicely into their lineup for their HT sideline. I can imagine how HT dealers hate the idea of competing with businesses already used to the cut-throat world of the presentation market with higher volumes, lower margins and equally demanding customers.


Nigel
 

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HT dealers are not like Home Depot. They rely on people being uninformed. They really hate it when you know more than them. Also, their ideas aren't always in your best interest. They just want to sell you the product they carry, which is usually not the product of their choice. They will tell you anything to move the process along. In fact, I had a seller/installer tell me that inwall speakers from speakercraft sound just as good as B&W (Ha)! We are not even talking about inwalls from B&W. Personally, I know this guy is full of S#@% b/c I heard them after install and they aren't even in the same realm. Granted they sound good for inwalls ...... Well you get my point. All you can do is be an informed consumer. After all, if you aren't looking out for yourself than no one is!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree, I think they will tell you whatever to move the product that gives them the most "points". Every dealer I heard was asking how many points for this verses that.
 

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I hear so much poo poo about dealers lately, and yet what have they done. If Infocus cared about the dealer network they wouldnt be selling the product online for their price. Notablly there is some dealers that do know absolutely nothing about the products. One dealer around here is still selling the AE100... still has not dawned on them that there is other products. There is good ones and bad ones ... To cast them all as evil and bad seems goofy. Whats going to keep the consumer content over the long haul is when like now everyone is selling it. More volume = lower price. To alienate some of the dealers over the long term... I just don't know if that was such a smart decision. It may tend to bite them in the arse over the long term.


Some of the competitors have introduced some very well built projectors at a great price also. They have not stood still. The move to make a model that is only different in firmware also seems to me anyway to be a dinkflunk move. Once the consumer finds out that they paid a few hundred dollars for nothing... they will become alienated, or not too happy. There is so many scrambling, fumbling, jerkwater moves made at Infocus that I personally have lost some respect for the company. I hope Infocus get their act together soon and also start to make money. The downgrading recently is a result of bad management.


To say that dealers rely on people being misinformed seems a bit misanthropic. If a dealer has done a great job selecting a product line and gives good service, support, and competitive pricing...... wouldnt they be better off with an informed customer..... and in this worldview... who is trying to deceive the consumer.... the dealer.... or the manufacturer that put out an identical product, rebadged and charge 100's more for it.

Reality check.
 

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I knew DCDi was good. I've used it with with 480i TV. But I've been using

an HTPC exclusively for DVD for years. Haven't even owned a DVD player

for a couple years.

Yesterday I took my X1 and laptop to a friend's home to show a movie.

My friend was so impressed that he wants to buy an X1 but he wants to use a DVD player. So we got out his run of the mill DVD player and connected up the S-Video.

I was frankly amazed at the picture quality. It was for all intents and purposes as good as the progressive output from my laptop. I'm going to get me a DVD player too.


An X1 without DCDi? Say it aint so, Joe.


Bob
 

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You can blame either or, but they are in bed together. HT Dealers rely on higher pricing from the manufacturer and the manufacturers need the rep. If profit margins suffer, then so do the dealers. High volume is not their game, but volumes of hot air usually is. Look there are good dealers out there, but it is usually not hard to surpass their knowledge of product and installation. What are you paying the extrememly high premium for? Let them sell the products at DIY pricing and those who want to pay more can go the dealers where they need help.


Mandarax, you know as well as I dealers don't always get to pick the best product lines. It is always true that if they don't move merchandise then they go out of business. For instance, we have one major B&W dealer in town , but the guys at their largest competitor will try to tell you Boston is better when asked to compare? What? If you really start talking to them, some will fess up. Be honest from the start and say, "hey these are decent for the money, but if you want better go here." I used to work retail many years ago and my customers appreciated the honesty. In fact, they would come back to me even though prices were higher b/c they trusted what I was saying. I was in a different arena, but I find a lot HT Dealers have the attitude that I can say whatever I want b/c people are stupid. This is just my opinion, and up north may be a different story.


Companies don't always make the best decisions, but if it wasn't for Infocus driving the market, we might not be having this discussion. The only reason we have new products and new markets is because somebody tested the waters. The sad reality is a lot of products flounder only for others to capitalize on their mistakes. It is the nature of the business. I don't think anyone is complaining about the 5700 or the 7205 are they?
 

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"The new X1 (new model number unsure), will have the DCDi removed as has been posted on this board."


OK...now, for the ignorant out here (me!), what exactly does the DCDi DO? Is it a type of input? Does it allow some type of connection that we won't be able to use in the future (once it's removed)? What?
 
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