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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone


Seing infocus X1 specifications, it seems that there is no possible other choice than this one for digital theater.


What could be the advantages of paying more for a piano aventis 3200 or a sharp xvz90 ?

And what price should we pay for a better machine than the X1 ?

3 times the price of it ?


...


I'm puzzled, coz i don't understand how a product so low in price can be so much better than others like the piano or the sharp.


Can anyone enlighten me on this ? :eek:


Thx and hi from france :)
 

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I think you can easily stray into the gray area of opinions and what costs more must be better.

Unfortunately when it comes to technology that is one of the paradoxes. You can't go strictly by cost any more.


When product pricing was tied to hours of hand labor to produce something then you could value your product easily. Today market forces, trends, market sentiment, technoligical advances, material availablity, R&D all contribute to the over all pricing of some of these products. THat is why so many people recommend doing a side by side comparison. You'll find the for 3 times the price you may only get 1 times the increase in performance.


I have seen now that price does not have anything to do with the ultimate image you want to see.


There are expceptions I guess . You could just elliminate all the confusion and drop 12k on a marantz and be done with it. Then again would you really see 10k worth of improvement?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That i can understand...

But if the infocus X1 is worth its technical data sheet, why is there so few threads here about it ?


In other terms (sorry, i'm a little newbie here), is it correct to say that most people here don't use only their projector for digital theater, but also for computer applications, and need higher resolution than 800*600 ?

If i'm correct, that means that the infocus, for DVD, is the best, even if it would cost twice his price ?
 

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The biggest potential problem I see with the X1 is rainbows. Contrast ratio has gone up in the latest round of projectors, but the colorwheel on this thing and on the NEC 240/260 is 2x. That is the same as the old NEC LT150. I never considered myself rainbow prone until I saw the 260 (I have a Sharp M20x with 3x wheel). From the specs it looks to me like the rainbow kings will be the X1 and those 240/260 projectors. So, the z90 should be much more watchable with its 5x wheel for some people. For those that never see rainbows or get eyestrain, the X1 looks like a very good projector for the price.


--Darin
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So all the question will remain in that colorwheel and its rainbows...

But with a faroudja scaler, is it not a good reponse to fade them ?
 

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Sirlx,


The scaler won't affect the rainbows. They are caused by the fact that only one color is on the screen at a time with single chip DLP. Your eye and brain are averaging the colors to get what you see. With the slower wheels some people see this effect, but the faster wheels definitely help to minimize them.


An example of something that brings them out is white lettering on a black background. The projector is putting up red, green, and blue to get white. If you move your eyes or the lettering moves on the screen you may see flashes of red, green, or blue.


--Darin
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for this explanation. :)

I certainly misjudged the function of the scaler coz i often read about the piano aventis 3200 that its scaler "reduces" the rainbow effect.

Then if only the wheel speed affects it, i just gotta see it (on X1 and others DMD) for myself to test my sensitivity to rainbows.
 

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It's very important to see it for yourself. With all the talk about rainbows I was very skeptical and nervous. I've looked at several DLP machines and some LCD, and to me, the DLPs where superior. Before buying I went back to a dealer to look at the Plus Piano again just to verify that I could tolerate or even see if I could perceive rainbows. Thankfully, at least on the Piano, there where none. I waved my hand in front of the screen, darted my eyes all over the place, nothing - just a beautiful, bright, well saturated, screen door and, mercifully, rainbow free image.

I just ordered the InFocus X1 and hopefully I won't see them on that either. I'll let you know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm a totally newbie in projector's world, but i'm taking accelerate lessons here lol

In fact, i won't be able to order one til 6 months or one year, but i'm trying to understand all the technical stuff, not easy i must admit...

But considering what i see, this kind of products evolves VERY quickly (the infocus X1 is one damn example), and i'm anxious to see what i will be able to get for less than 3500 euros (yep, i'm french) in 6 months...

Who could tell ?

;-)
 

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I have had an Infocus Lp335 for about 1 1/2 years and it has a 1x color wheel and I have never seen rainbows with it. I just finished the HT room and ordered the X1 today. If the 335 could be ceiling mounted i would never get rid of it. I think the X1 will be as great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hehe, soon this forum will be invaded by all the X1-owners !

I wonder how sharp and especially piano will answer to that...

One thing for sure, prices are gonna change.
 

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Quote:
I waved my hand in front of the screen, darted my eyes all over the place, nothing
Thank God! Since I always watch movies with my hand waving quickly in front of my face, with my eyes darting back and forth rapidly, I'm glad to know that I won't have to fear Darth Rainbow! ;)


I have a friend who just bought a LT240, and after teaching me for about 15 minutes on how to see rainbows, I finally was able to get a minute glimpse of them once in awhile. But I never would have been able to see them without his excellent tutorial! As a result, I ordered an X1 without fear.
 

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According to Bob Williams of Infocus, the contrast ratio decreases significantly for video aplications (approx 30%). Even so, it still looks excellent value for money:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...s&pagenumber=1


If Infocus made a 1024 x 768 version of this machine, I'd seriously consider it.


Fortunately I don't see rainbows either. :)


Gary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Even with a 30% decrease, it's still a 1400:1 contrast...

More than almost all projectors (and for kess than 2k !)

This X1 is really an alien !
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Sirlx
Thanks for this explanation. :)

I certainly misjudged the function of the scaler coz i often read about the piano aventis 3200 that its scaler "reduces" the rainbow effect.

Then if only the wheel speed affects it, i just gotta see it (on X1 and others DMD) for myself to test my sensitivity to rainbows.
Sirlx,


I should say that I've never heard of a scaler having any effect on the rainbows. The speed of the colorwheel seems to be the most dominant factor (slower = more rainbows) and then contrast ratio next (higher = more). However, I really shouldn't rule out that the scaler might have some small effect or that some good engineer might come up with a way for the scaler to reduce rainbows. So, if somebody claims that their scaler reduces rainbows, then maybe it does. Just the first I've heard of that.


--Darin
 

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Actually they do Gary, it's called the 7200 (actually 1280x720) and has a RSP of $9,995 US - gulp!! If it was around $3-4.000 I'd go for it but I reckon they'll be lots of them in a couple of years (2-3) with that spec for around 3 grand. I just want to get in now and at the price or the X1 coupled with the 5 year warranty I can't go wrong. Even if I sell it for $1,000 CAD in a couple of years my cost of ownership is basically $58 CAD a month!!


Bob, I agree with you, some of the highjinx that people do to see rainbows makes me wonder. I guess some people just like looking for fault and frankly I havn't found any piece of technology that I couldn't fault if I really wanted to. I did these bizzar things because someone posted a message that he could see rainbows doing these crazy things. I must admit I did it to prove to myself that no matter what I did I wouldn't see rainbows. I felt rather silly doing it (thankfully I was by myself) but there again it convinced me and by tomorrow I'll be a happy camper with my new X1 (fingers tightly crossed). Congrats on your purchace :D
 

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Hopefully my X1 will ship tomorrow, and I should have it here by Monday. Since my main projector is an Electrohome Marquee 9500LC (arguably the finest projector made), I am quite intrested on how the X1 compares. I know it is kind of like David vs. Goliath, but I figure that I have an excellent reference for comparison. The X1 is for my bedroom system, but I am going to temporarily hook it up in my theater and A/B it against the Ehome on a 100" x 56" screen. I insist on the best, and I feel that the X1 represents the best value for the money in a projector (based on its specs, anyway).


I have the Holo3DGraph card in my main system, which also uses the Faroudja FLI2200 chip, and the deinterlacing capabilty of that chip is awesome! Now I know that the overall quality is dependent on the surrounding circuitry, but I figure with a great chip like the FLI2200, just how wrong could InFocus possibly go?


Also, with my CRT projector and HTPC, I have sent just about every resolution imaginable (up to 1920 X 1080P) to my screen and have gotten to do in depth comparisons of various resolutions, and unless there is something totally different going on with digital projectors (all of my experience is with CRT), then the differences in resolution from 800 X 600 to 1024 X 768 are over rated. With a CRT, there is very little difference in PQ, so I don't know why everyone is so excited about the slightly better resolution. The native resolution of a DVD is 720 X 480 (if I remember correctly), and you can't get blood from a stone. The only real advantage of a higher resolution might be less scaling artifacts, but since neither of the resolutions is an even multiple of native DVD, then it would take a detailed study to see if 1024 X 768 really has any advantages over 800 X 600 at all. Of course, since I have no experience with digital PJ's, my observations in regards to CRT projectors might be totally incorrect when it comes to digital. Anyone?


At any rate, when I went to HE 2002 in May, I saw plenty of LCD and DLP units, and I personally would never consider LCD, as the DLP's looked a whole lot better to my eyes. And now comes along the X1 with a 2000:1 contrast ratio, 1000 lumens, and DCDi interlacing, all for $1500? Seems like a no brainer to me, but I'll reserve final judgement until I have it here, calibrate the living **** out of it, and put it through its paces.
 

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Hello Bob, it would be great if you would get your X1 at the beginning of next week - and share your thoughts about it with us. I have read the X1 reviews here carefully and they are very helpful. But I am sure that you (with your CRT experience) have a very critical eye for digital projectors. So I think that your impressions will be very interesting.


I don't think that the SVGA and XGA resolution difference has a really huge effect on the DVD picture quality (the scaling quality is much more important for me). I also can't see a difference between the higher resolution PAL and NTSC material (or maybe just in my imagination).


Stefan
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I thought alot about the 'excitment' on resolution, and though i'm far away in knowledge from most people here, i only see higher resolution as an advantage for computer applications.

For the DVD, u said it urself, u cannot get blood from a stone...

Once again, what will make this projector the best under $5000 will be his ability to avoid rainbows, and some people think of it like an impossible mission due to its 2x colorwheel...
 
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