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Input about power amps. Behringer vs Crown

3739 Views 23 Replies 7 Participants Last post by wse, Mar 30, 2014

blackhawk95

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2014

In another thread I had asked some questions about hookups for pro-audio amps. So, I got that sorted. My Father has a studio setup and he has a Mackie mixer, a pair of large powered Mackie 3 way speakers. He wanting to add a subwoofer to his setup, either Electrovoice or QSC passives, since the Mackie towers don't reach real low with a lot of power.

In the price range he wants to spend Ive narrowed down the choices to either the Behringer Inuke 3000 or the Crown XLS1500.

I leaning toward the Crown. But wanted to know what you guys think.

Jerid

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

commsysman

· #2 · Feb 23, 2014

Just be aware that those are low-quality public-address system amplifiers, not low-distortion high-fidelity amplifiers.

The sound quality is not nearly as good.

If he has POWERED speakers, they already have a power amplifier built into them, so what is the point of a different power amplifier anyway? Is it only for the subwoofer?

As far as the subwoofer goes, you should probably buy a powered subwoofer.

For $499 you can buy the Klipsch RW-12 powered subwoofer and forget about buying an amplifier.

That will give you all the clean bass you can ask for.

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FMW

· #3 · Feb 23, 2014

I would lean toward the Crown as well but not because of anything inherent in the products. Behringer has a reputation for being a low end reverse engineering outfit and Crown has a reputation for serving the pro audio industry with high quality gear. Understand that these particular products may not be representative of those particular reputations, since they are at the low end of the market..

I am aware that the Inuke has onboard DSP. I don't know whether the Crown does or not. If it doesn't then I would go back to the Behringer so that I could EQ the subwoofer. If it does then Crown would be my choice.

Nevertheless, In your shoes I would just cut a hole in the back of the sub and install a plate amp. It is cheaper and just as effective.

blackhawk95

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 23, 2014

He isn't going to change the built in amps on the full range speakers.   The external amp would be for running the sub.

Also, about running a powered sub goes, I've gone with him and listened to quite a few different brands and models.   And to me they just didn't seem to have the output you would expect.   Demo room was small too. perhaps 12'x12' and 10' ceiling

I do understand the Crown XLS is a lower end model.   But it should sound as well at the Inuke I would think.

blackhawk95

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 23, 2014

From looking at the specs on the Crown it does have DSP or eq'ing . along with an output solely for a subwoofer.

blackhawk95

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 23, 2014

Also, It was stated earlier the sound from the Crown isn't the cleanest but, Seem like I read where 100hz and lower the sound quality isn't as noticeable.

Jerid

FMW

· #7 · Feb 23, 2014

Those comments are from someone who has never used them and makes recommendations without personal experience or the benefit of tests. The amps shouldn't alter the sound in any way and should perform the same audibly. It takes a very badly designed amp to distort the signal in this day and age. I'd go for the Crown.

blackhawk95

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 23, 2014

Thanks a lot for the help.

arnyk

· #9 · Feb 23, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW /t/1519385/input-about-power-amps-behringer-vs-crown#post_24397228

I would lean toward the Crown as well but not because of anything inherent in the products. Behringer has a reputation for being a low end reverse engineering outfit and Crown has a reputation for serving the pro audio industry with high quality gear. Understand that these particular products may not be representative of those particular reputations, since they are at the low end of the market..

I am aware that the Inuke has onboard DSP. I don't know whether the Crown does or not. If it doesn't then I would go back to the Behringer so that I could EQ the subwoofer.

Crown's model line up includes lines of amps with built in DSP such as the XTi series, and other lines that lack them. Be sure to get the right tool for the job! ;-)

arnyk

· #10 · Feb 23, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawk95 /t/1519385/input-about-power-amps-behringer-vs-crown#post_24397285

Also, It was stated earlier the sound from the Crown isn't the cleanest but, Seem like I read where 100hz and lower the sound quality isn't as noticeable.

I read all sorts of crazy things on the internet.

I know some very picky people that use Crown amps for among other things, subwoofers that have F3s in the 10 Hz region @ 120+ dB @ industry standard levels of THD.

I've personally used a Crown XTi 2000 to drive a subwoofer in a large room. It was crossed over at about 100 Hz. Sounded great, even when driven to right below clipping.

blackhawk95

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 23, 2014

I double checked and the XLS does not have dsp features. but it does have digital crossovers and whatnot.

I know when my Dad and I went to check out some powered subs he was looking at. the Electrovoice in particular just didn't have the punch or volume I thought it should or would have had. I think it was an EV ELX115? 15" woofer, 500 watt amp and I think it was a sealed design. maybe something was wrong with that particular one. there's just no way that was 500watts. My dad has about a 12 year old Polk sub for his home theater and its a 10" unit and it has better power than the EV in a larger space too..

I just think he will end up with a better system going with the Crown amp and a quality subwoofer.

FMW

· #12 · Feb 23, 2014

Sealed subwoofers are less efficient and don't go to as low a frequency as a similar sub that is ported. You do have turn the level up with a sealed sub compared to a ported model. I use a 15" sealed sub with a 300 watt amplifier and it will do anything I need for a sub to do. I recommend you experiment with levels and placement.

blackhawk95

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 24, 2014

Well, from what you say it my be the EV sub we heard was a defective unit.

Theresa

· #14 · Feb 25, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW /t/1519385/input-about-power-amps-behringer-vs-crown#post_24398817

Sealed subwoofers are less efficient and don't go to as low a frequency as a similar sub that is ported. You do have turn the level up with a sealed sub compared to a ported model. I use a 15" sealed sub with a 300 watt amplifier and it will do anything I need for a sub to do. I recommend you experiment with levels and placement.

You are precisely right except a ported sub will be larger. Both ported and sealed can serve their intended purpose. The benefit of a sealed sub is it "can" be smaller and because of this doesn't stand out as much. The rest of the "benefits" of sealed subs are myth and misinformation.

If your satisfied by the sub it is what you should have.

FMW

· #15 · Feb 25, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa /t/1519385/input-about-power-amps-behringer-vs-crown#post_24406212

You are precisely right except a ported sub will be larger. Both ported and sealed can serve their intended purpose. The benefit of a sealed sub is it "can" be smaller and because of this doesn't stand out as much. The rest of the "benefits" of sealed subs are myth and misinformation.

If your satisfied by the sub it is what you should have.

No. A bias controlled preference test that I respect found a majority of listeners preferred sealed subs. The test was level matched and the fact that subs sound different from one another is not disputed. I offer this even though I posted nothing about sound quality.

The correct answer is that ported subs can sound as good as sealed subs but not all of them do.

Sealed subs can be smaller but are not necessarily smaller. Those in larger enclosures will have lower bass response. The real advantage of a sealed sub is that the enclosure dimensions are not critical where they certainly are with ported subs. Sealed subs do not have to be tuned.

Theresa

· #16 · Feb 25, 2014

A poorly designed ported speaker, which I wouldn't have in my house, will sound poor as will a poorly designed sealed speaker. There can be port noise and other factors. As you will see in my post, I put CAN in quotes to point out that its possible for a sealed sub to be bigger than a ported one. My current DIY subs have passive radiators eliminating the possibility of port noise and the speaker drivers have 2" of linear excursion so will not bottom out.

FMW

· #17 · Feb 25, 2014

I've never heard a bad sounding sealed sub but I have heard plenty of bad ported ones. Ported are many times more popular because of the added efficiency and extension. I like the passive radiator idea. In wondering why It isn't more popular I would suppose it is because of cost.

FMW

· #18 · Feb 25, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /t/1519385/input-about-power-amps-behringer-vs-crown#post_24397619

I read all sorts of crazy things on the internet.

.

Indeed. Out of curiosity I checked on the specs for the Drivecore amps. S/N is greater than 108 db and THD at full rated power is .35% 20 to 20K. FR is plus/minus 1/4 db 20 to 20K. In other words, these amps appear to have no audible anomalies. They are high fidelity amps by any definition I consider valid.

blazar

· #19 · Feb 27, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawk95 /t/1519385/input-about-power-amps-behringer-vs-crown#post_24396872

In another thread I had asked some questions about hookups for pro-audio amps. So, I got that sorted. My Father has a studio setup and he has a Mackie mixer, a pair of large powered Mackie 3 way speakers. He wanting to add a subwoofer to his setup, either Electrovoice or QSC passives, since the Mackie towers don't reach real low with a lot of power.

In the price range he wants to spend Ive narrowed down the choices to either the Behringer Inuke 3000 or the Crown XLS1500.

I leaning toward the Crown. But wanted to know what you guys think.

Jerid

I have a stack of Crowns and they do function ok. The high pass and low pass filters and the volume attenuators can very helpful in fine tuning in certain situations. Forget the signal to noise specs tho... they hiss while idle on higher sensitivity speakers so beware if you have s super quiet room or horn speakers. They sound fine on my surround sound speakers for non-critical listening needs. In direct comparison to a Pass Labs XA30.8 and on my rack through high sensitivity revealing speakers however, the crowns don't even come close. I don't plan on changing my crowns in the surround application because honestly I don't pay attention to the surround experience that closely. They sound quite decent for that application and have limitless power. I also use a pair of Crown XLS for amping Clark Synthesis Platinum bass shakers in my couch. The XLS is set to a high pass crossover of 40hz so that only very low bass information is sent to the bass shaker. This was extremely helpful because I ran out of adjustable subwoofer outputs on my Pre-pro.

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arnyk

· #20 · Feb 27, 2014

2

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman /t/1519385/input-about-power-amps-behringer-vs-crown#post_24397011

Just be aware that those are low-quality public-address system amplifiers, not low-distortion high-fidelity amplifiers.

That is just plain wrong.

Here are the results detailed tests of two amplifiers, one a so-called PA amplifier, and the other a high end power amp from a well known firm costing many times more for the same power:

and

I think that a knowledgeable person could properly identify which was which, but neither of them is anything but a low distortion amp.

Anybody want to hazard a guess?

Note that the audiophile myth that so-called PA amps fall apart when driving speaker loads is pretty well dealt with, too.

The speaker load used in these tests was fairly aggressive dipping well below 4 ohms.

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