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well this thread definitely puts me at ease to see how many ppl use their plasma for gaming. People are always talking about HUD burning and all this other junk, and i was soo timid on getting a plasma, but i just cannot bear the look of an LCD...i think it looks gross for anything that is not still (which is pretty much everything). i love how when they are showing them off with flowers and a very slow pan....cuz god forbid they showed a game or something people would see how terrible LCD is, ugh....not to mention their fake 120hz to 'correct' the motion blur, ha, what a load of poo


anyway back on topic.....after readin this i'm def gonna pull the trigger on my 46pz85, amazon has free white glove right now...and i'm a total GH/RB Halo freak so i'm glad that the plasma will handle this, i have an old NEC MultiSync monitor i'm gonna do some lag tests for everyone once i get my bad boy all hooked up!!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mHartke2421 /forum/post/15330739


I'm trying to figure out which LCD tv to buy, and I am lost.


I know that I want 1080p, 120 HZ, and the least amount of input lag. What are my options?

You can get basically zero input lag (meaning equivalent to CRT) with a number of the latest TVs, using game mode, VGA or HDMI in PC mode, depending on the TV. So I wouldn't buy a TV based on input lag, just when you decide on one, make sure there's no issues with lag.
 

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I have to agree that this is an excellent and long-overdue topic. Just to summarize, it seems that the best plasmas (Panny/Kuro) have very little to no perceptible input lag? I am in the market for a 50-60" plasma, and about to pull the trigger, but have a few concerns as I will be gaming with it approximately 50% of the time.


So if I were to buy, say, a 5020 Kuro or a 800U (50/58"), I should have no lag issues? Right now I have a 4-year old Samsung DLP which induces enough lag to annoy me seriously when playing Rock Band....
 

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Excellent topic, kudos to you guys for taking the time to really do the tests right and report your results.


Now we need some of the new NeoPDP owners to run these tests on the S1s and G10s now that they're out!
 

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lol @ "Aria-Giovanni.mpg" icon on the first computer desktop image posted on page one of this thread


along with various other porn and illegally downloaded movies spread throughout the desktop
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitrios007 /forum/post/16066759


i have also a question:


what about the pioneer pdp 5020? does somebody game on that tv? is there any input lag?

Almost every HDTV has some amount of lag. I had a 5010 at one time, and it had no noticeable input lag. Anything 30ms and under is excellent.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOAMattD /forum/post/16003902


Now we need some of the new NeoPDP owners to run these tests on the S1s and G10s now that they're out!

I find the absolute best test to run for input lag is to hook up a Wii with component cables outputting at 480p and just move the pointer around on the channel screen. The movement of the pointer on a CRT is instant. Having gamed on high quality (Sony FW900) CRT's for years, I am very sensitive to input lag and if the LCD/Plasma I'm testing has input lag, I notice it instantly.


So this is exactly what I did recently before buying a new HDTV. I tested the Sharp LC-32D77X (ASV panel), the Sony KDL32W5500 (S-PVA panel), the Samsung LA32B650 (S-PVA panel), the LG 32LH50YD (E-IPS panel), the Panasonic TH-L32G10A (IPS-alpha panel), the Panasonic TH-L32S10A (IPS-alpha panel), and finally the TH-P42S10A (NeoPDP Plasma).


I tested all of these TV's extensively over a period of about 4 weeks, turning ON Game mode where applicable and turning OFF all additional picture processing and found that all had noticeable input lag except the Panasonic LCD IPS-alpha panels. Even when NOT in Game mode, the Panasonics had unnoticeable input lag.



Disclaimer: I, in no way, shape or form, work for or represent Panasonic (edit: or Nintendo) in any way.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidicarus7 /forum/post/16833029


I find the absolute best test to run for input lag is to hook up a Wii with component cables outputting at 480p and just move the pointer around on the channel screen. The movement of the pointer on a CRT is instant. Having gamed on high quality (Sony FW900) CRT's for years, I am very sensitive to input lag and if the LCD/Plasma I'm testing has input lag, I notice it instantly.


So this is exactly what I did recently before buying a new HDTV. I tested the Sharp LC-32D77X (ASV panel), the Sony KDL32W5500 (S-PVA panel), the Samsung LA32B650 (S-PVA panel), the LG 32LH50YD (E-IPS panel), the Panasonic TH-L32G10A (IPS-alpha panel), the Panasonic TH-L32S10A (IPS-alpha panel), and finally the TH-P42S10A (NeoPDP Plasma).


I tested all of these TV's extensively over a period of about 4 weeks, turning ON Game mode where applicable and turning OFF all additional picture processing and found that all had noticeable input lag except the Panasonic LCD IPS-alpha panels. Even when NOT in Game mode, the Panasonics had unnoticeable input lag.



Disclaimer: I, in no way, shape or form, work for or represent Panasonic (edit: or Nintendo) in any way.

Just wish they made them in larger sizes.
 

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Just a note about the "Game" picture setting on the 12G Panasonics - I asked a Viera Concierge about this mode and was told that it's just another picture setting - there's no actual input difference in this setting according to the person I chatted with.


That said, I have very little lag on my V10 - Rock Band 2 measured it at ~32ms. I've played some Halo 3 and Geometry Wars, both games that will suffer from noticeable lag, and didn't have any problems.


Take it for what it's worth...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kirk_ /forum/post/16835802


Just a note about the "Game" picture setting on the 12G Panasonics - I asked a Viera Concierge about this mode and was told that it's just another picture setting - there's no actual input difference in this setting according to the person I chatted with.


That said, I have very little lag on my V10 - Rock Band 2 measured it at ~32ms. I've played some Halo 3 and Geometry Wars, both games that will suffer from noticeable lag, and didn't have any problems.


Take it for what it's worth...

I thought the same thing kirk, just a factory setting profile for brightness/contrast/sharpness/color and the filters. However 2 things I've noticed recently with my 42G10 make me wonder if there isn't also some non-user editable SM settings that are also switched based on the picture preset (GAME/STANDARD/CUSTOM) and Input label (set to GAME)


I saw the post a few days ago in the 12G issues/settings thread regarding scrolling text on certain 360 games like the ticker tape at the bottom of the menu screen in Battlefield 1943. The user claimed that text was notably clearer and smoother setting the picture mode to STANDARD mode. I figured I'd try it as a goof (usually I use Input Label:GAME/Picture mode:GAME) and damn he was right. The text was crystal clear and scrolled smothly from right to left. I hadn't even noticed it was very blurry and jittery in game mode until I tried this. He claimed it was clearer in both VIVID and STANDARD than THX/GAME/CUSTOM. While VIVID was noticeably better it still wasn't nearly as clear or smooth as Standard mode. Would lead one to believe there is some kind of text filter or other processing to reduce halo effect or judder applied in STANDARD picture mode right?


So I figured if there was added image processing there would be some noticeable lag. I popped in the lag calibrator in GH III and tested both audio and video lag...0 ms for both. I ran it 3 times to be sure...0 ms. I know it's unscientific, but as fas as perceivable lag goes, if I hit the mark every time based on both audio and visual queues I'm pretty satisfied.


One thing I did note is that contrast in STANDARD mode seems to affect brightness or luminescence to a greater degree than GAME mode. I actually had to crank it up to 83 to see a comparable level if detail in the image as GAME with a contrast at 63. I got the same results using the white clipping patterns from the AVS HD709 .mp4 off a thumb drive.


What causes this? I have no idea. I guess I can say that as long as you turn all the other image processing options in the user menu off you can use the picture mode that looks best to you without worry of perceivable input lag. I'm glad I tried something other than game mode. I'm actually getting more kills now in Gears of War 2 MP and Battlefield 1943 (even though the former tends to suffer from tremendous network lag). Maybe because it's clearer I can actually see what I'm shooting at? ;-)
 

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I switch between THX and Custom picture modes for all my TV usage - I haven't yet played games using the Game picture mode.


I should run a test of the Rock Band 2 calibration with my V10 in the Game picture setting and see if there's any difference in the calculation.


It certainly wouldn't surprise me if the info I got from the Concierge wasn't 100% accurate - I've seen reports on this forum of people getting different answers from different Concierges, so I wouldn't necessarily consider the info I got from one to be the last word on the subject.
 

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Reposting my unscientific test results of my TC-P54V10 from the V10 thread:


I got some time to test input lag tonight. Using Guitar Hero Metallica I got the following results after 5 tests:


Video lag - 0ms

Audio lag - 0-30ms


This was with my Xbox 360 set to 1080p connected directly to the TV via HDMI. The audio lag was sometimes 0ms, sometimes around 30ms. I think this will not be an issue once I hook up my receiver, as the audio lag is 0ms when I used my receiver previously.
 

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Thanks for the results, guys. Anybody with a CRT willing to do some tests?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanb /forum/post/16837868


Reposting my unscientific test results of my TC-P54V10 from the V10 thread:


I got some time to test input lag tonight. Using Guitar Hero Metallica I got the following results after 5 tests:


Video lag - 0ms

Audio lag - 0-30ms


This was with my Xbox 360 set to 1080p connected directly to the TV via HDMI. The audio lag was sometimes 0ms, sometimes around 30ms. I think this will not be an issue once I hook up my receiver, as the audio lag is 0ms when I used my receiver previously.

Interesting. I wonder how much of my video lag of ~32ms is due to running my signals through my AVS. If my cables weren't hard to get to, I'd test running the HDMI from the 360 straight into the V10 instead of going through the AVS...


Even with that amount of lag, it's low enough to not be an issue for my gaming.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kirk_ /forum/post/16838245


Interesting. I wonder how much of my video lag of ~32ms is due to running my signals through my AVS. If my cables weren't hard to get to, I'd test running the HDMI from the 360 straight into the V10 instead of going through the AVS...


Even with that amount of lag, it's low enough to not be an issue for my gaming.

Does the receiver just do pass-through of the signal, or does it actually do some processing?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper /forum/post/16838429


Does the receiver just do pass-through of the signal, or does it actually do some processing?

I'll have to read the manual, but I thought it was just pass-through.
 

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Vincent at http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/ has done lag tests on all of the TVs he has reviewed within the last two years or so. He's done tests on the G10 and V10 (with good results for both).

Quote:
Originally Posted by slyderulz /forum/post/16837582


I thought the same thing kirk, just a factory setting profile for brightness/contrast/sharpness/color and the filters. However 2 things I've noticed recently with my 42G10 make me wonder if there isn't also some non-user editable SM settings that are also switched based on the picture preset (GAME/STANDARD/CUSTOM) and Input label (set to GAME)


I saw the post a few days ago in the 12G issues/settings thread regarding scrolling text on certain 360 games like the ticker tape at the bottom of the menu screen in Battlefield 1943. The user claimed that text was notably clearer and smoother setting the picture mode to STANDARD mode. I figured I'd try it as a goof (usually I use Input Label:GAME/Picture mode:GAME) and damn he was right. The text was crystal clear and scrolled smothly from right to left. I hadn't even noticed it was very blurry and jittery in game mode until I tried this. He claimed it was clearer in both VIVID and STANDARD than THX/GAME/CUSTOM. While VIVID was noticeably better it still wasn't nearly as clear or smooth as Standard mode. Would lead one to believe there is some kind of text filter or other processing to reduce halo effect or judder applied in STANDARD picture mode right?


So I figured if there was added image processing there would be some noticeable lag. I popped in the lag calibrator in GH III and tested both audio and video lag...0 ms for both. I ran it 3 times to be sure...0 ms. I know it's unscientific, but as fas as perceivable lag goes, if I hit the mark every time based on both audio and visual queues I'm pretty satisfied.


One thing I did note is that contrast in STANDARD mode seems to affect brightness or luminescence to a greater degree than GAME mode. I actually had to crank it up to 83 to see a comparable level if detail in the image as GAME with a contrast at 63. I got the same results using the white clipping patterns from the AVS HD709 .mp4 off a thumb drive.


What causes this? I have no idea. I guess I can say that as long as you turn all the other image processing options in the user menu off you can use the picture mode that looks best to you without worry of perceivable input lag. I'm glad I tried something other than game mode. I'm actually getting more kills now in Gears of War 2 MP and Battlefield 1943 (even though the former tends to suffer from tremendous network lag). Maybe because it's clearer I can actually see what I'm shooting at? ;-)

Are you adjusting the "Sharpness" setting for each picture mode, or leaving it at the default? Because it sounds to me like that's what's causing the change in clarity; sharpness is most noticeable when viewing text. I'm not looking at my G10 right now, but I'm pretty sure that the default sharpness value is different for each picture mode.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kirk_ /forum/post/16838245


Interesting. I wonder how much of my video lag of ~32ms is due to running my signals through my AVS. If my cables weren't hard to get to, I'd test running the HDMI from the 360 straight into the V10 instead of going through the AVS...


Even with that amount of lag, it's low enough to not be an issue for my gaming.

The Guitar Hero games/guitars are all manual calibration aren't they? Certainly the earlier models are, not sure about the most recent. Being it depends entirely on the user, it's a pretty useless test save for displays that are just ridiculously bad. Rock Band is fully automated with a photo-eye on the guitar isn't it? That said, if your AVR has OSD overlay (for instance, it lays a volume bar over your actual source video), then it is very likely adding some not insignificant lag.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta /forum/post/16839274


The Guitar Hero games/guitars are all manual calibration aren't they? Certainly the earlier models are, not sure about the most recent. Being it depends entirely on the user, it's a pretty useless test save for displays that are just ridiculously bad. Rock Band is fully automated with a photo-eye on the guitar isn't it? That said, if your AVR has OSD overlay (for instance, it lays a volume bar over your actual source video), then it is very likely adding some not insignificant lag.

Yes, Guitar Hero is a manual calibration and depends on the user. That being said, the same test on my DLP gave me ~22ms lag every time.
 
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