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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I guess I have a couple questions...

First off is the main question. I like the ease of use and NET features on my TV but I feel as though I should run everything into the receiver first, that's how it's designed right? Does the ARC send all the info to the receiver or does it compress it or pan channels or whatever?

Which brings up the next question. When I run everything into the receiver first and then put something like Netflix or HBO(which my receiver doesn't have) no sounds go to the receiver. If I run everything to the tv, the tv sets the receiver as audio only and I can't get an on screen display of the receiver settings. Is there a way to make them work together better? Like let the TV control the receiver connections but still get sound playback through the ARC when using the TV apps. That would be ideal I beleive.

Also, I'm switching form a 7.1 to a 5.1.2 I guess. I was running 2 rear surround, 2 front hight wide, and R,C,L, sub. but my new receiver doesn't support the front wide and wants me to run them high for atamos. Do I really need to put them right above the R,L speakers? And angle them down? is it that much better? Aren't you supposed to use special speakers for atamos?

which brings on the next... My new receiver supports 2 more channels so I was thinking about getting 2 new speakers but if I'm upgrading I should probably do the mains right? I have a HTIB set now and nothing is that great but the mains are better then the rest already. I was thinking move the old main R,L to sur rear and get 2 new fronts. Advise?

Thanks, I could have sworn I ws on hear for awhile a few years ago but maybe it was a different from. Anyway, thanks again.

Oh yeah gear list might help

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-LX503 replacing Onkyo TX-NR828 (blew once, got it fixed, year or so later blew again)

TV: Samsung 8 series 55

Speakers: Onkyo SKF-540F ect... x2 of those 4 of the small surrounds and the center that came with it. Oh, and the sub. I can't get to those to get the serials but you get the gist.
 

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I guess I have a couple questions...

First off is the main question. I like the ease of use and NET features on my TV but I feel as though I should run everything into the receiver first, that's how it's designed right? Does the ARC send all the info to the receiver or does it compress it or pan channels or whatever?
Yes, you want to connect everything to the AVR with a single HDMI cable going from the AVR to the TV. You should be able to use the internal apps on the TV and hear it through the AVR by using the ARC feature on your TV and AVR. Make sure you are using the input on the TV that is labeled "ARC" or "Audio Return Channel". That being said, ARC can be problematic and a lot of folks on this forum forego using it and just run an optical cable from the TV to the AVR....or get an outboard box (Nvidia Shield, Roku, Firestick, etc) for running streaming apps. Also, ARC will not pass any of the lossless audio formats (True HD, DTS MA) and on some TVs will only pass 2.0.


Also, I'm switching form a 7.1 to a 5.1.2 I guess. I was running 2 rear surround, 2 front hight wide, and R,C,L, sub. but my new receiver doesn't support the front wide and wants me to run them high for atamos. Do I really need to put them right above the R,L speakers? And angle them down? is it that much better? Aren't you supposed to use special speakers for atamos?
Above the front speakers and angled down, yes. It will not sound right with Atmos if your wides are currently at ear level.

The "special" Atmos speakers you are probably thinking of are the up-firing modules. These are meant to sit on top of your current speakers and bounce the sound off of the ceiling. By all reports, they don't work well at all.


which brings on the next... My new receiver supports 2 more channels so I was thinking about getting 2 new speakers but if I'm upgrading I should probably do the mains right? I have a HTIB set now and nothing is that great but the mains are better then the rest already. I was thinking move the old main R,L to sur rear and get 2 new fronts. Advise?
Yes, upgrade the mains first and move the older speakers to surround duty. The mains have to reproduce much more demanding content than the surrounds, so that makes the most sense in your situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks! I hope I can get the ARC working right. I'll dig into it and the manuals later...

As for my front highs, they are high, top corners of the room pretty much but also wide. I was just wondering if being directly above the mains is that important. My mains are right next to the tv and the high/wides are about 4-5 feet out from that. Also if I really need to angle them down.

For the fun part, upgrading the main left and right, what are good options? The onkyos I have are pretty good but what would be a good replacement and still fit with the rest? I pretty much have to stay with bookshelves but these are big bookshelves with 2 woofers and a tweeter each.

Anyway, thanks again, I'll keep you and everyone posted.
 

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Ahhh, I thought maybe you had the wides mounted at ear level, wider than the mains. Your mounting is more like traditional front heights. I personally do not have Atmos (yet!) but I would say give it a shot, they may sound great right where they are!

As far as speaker recommendations, you will get much more response (and much better advice) if you were to post in the Speakers section of the forum. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Cool, thanks! Yeah, I kinda know how it works. I'll try to spread my questions out in the proper fields but this seems like more of a set up question.

Anyway, I got it all ran through the receiver again and the ARC working and the receiver switching TV when I play an app on the TV (like Netflix) and sounds great! But hard to say if the other sources (cable box, game system ect) sound better this way. How much does ARC compress audio? Basically the only thing I really use going into the receiver is the cable box (dish hopper). It does sound good this way but sounds good the other way too. It's kinda hard to do a side by side comparison. Unhooking and rehooking takes a while.
 

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Cool, thanks! Yeah, I kinda know how it works. I'll try to spread my questions out in the proper fields but this seems like more of a set up question.

Anyway, I got it all ran through the receiver again and the ARC working and the receiver switching TV when I play an app on the TV (like Netflix) and sounds great! But hard to say if the other sources (cable box, game system ect) sound better this way. How much does ARC compress audio? Basically the only thing I really use going into the receiver is the cable box (dish hopper). It does sound good this way but sounds good the other way too. It's kinda hard to do a side by side comparison. Unhooking and rehooking takes a while.
How much ARC will downmix your audio depends on your TV...and those specs can be hard to find. Best to ask in the thread for your TV (if one exists).

Typically, TVs will only output Dolby Digital 5.1 or DD+ from the ARC connection, but sometimes it will only be Stereo (2.0). Both DD and DD+ are "lossy" formats (i.e. compressed), if you want to hear the full, lossless audio from blu rays, you must connect to the AVR first.

That being said, eARC is going to fix this problem in the near future and will be able to pass the lossless codecs...but until then... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Alright, so now I can't get any sound return from the tv to the receiver??... Worked great for awhile, switching back and forth from receiver HDMI inputs to TV apps. I don't get it? I played some music on Spotify and adjusted the eq alittle but that's it! I can't even figure out how to get sound from the tv apps (Netflix, YouTube, hbo....) Now without pulling it all out and hooking everything up backwards! What am I missing? Why did/does it work and then not work? The receiver turns to TV mode but no sound now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I guess, since I'm mostly only switching back and forth from the receiver HDMI input for the cable box to the TV apps through ARC, how does DISH hopper HDMI put out sound? Better than the ARC returns to the receiver? What's a good way to go out from the TV to the receiver without loosing the hd mix or sound?
 

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Alright, so now I can't get any sound return from the tv to the receiver??... Worked great for awhile, switching back and forth from receiver HDMI inputs to TV apps. I don't get it? I played some music on Spotify and adjusted the eq alittle but that's it! I can't even figure out how to get sound from the tv apps (Netflix, YouTube, hbo....) Now without pulling it all out and hooking everything up backwards! What am I missing? Why did/does it work and then not work? The receiver turns to TV mode but no sound now.
I told you, ARC can be very problematic. :(


I guess, since I'm mostly only switching back and forth from the receiver HDMI input for the cable box to the TV apps through ARC, how does DISH hopper HDMI put out sound? Better than the ARC returns to the receiver? What's a good way to go out from the TV to the receiver without loosing the hd mix or sound?
The only devices that will output lossless audio are your blu ray player and your game system. If you run either of those through the TV and then to the AVR, the audio will be down-converted. The cable box most likely only outputs Dolby Digital, or at best Dolby Digital + which your TV may or may not pass through ARC untouched (again, you would have to check the specs for your TV...or, bring up the menu in your AVR and check the incoming audio signal format).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, you nailed it. ARC is pretty inconsistent...

I don't even have a blue ray player and my game system is a 360 I never really use... My friends are trying to get me to get a PS4. I know it plays Blu Ray but I heard that a dedicated one is way better.

Kinda still on topic though, I can get DTS natural x, DTS, and Dolby surround (with the trade mark on the display) options on my receiver through ARC. I'm not sure if it is the receiver doing the work or if it gets those signals. I think there are more settings or whatever but I don't know how I'd get it. Probably from a Blu Ray that's mixed for it. I don't think Netflix would have anything mixed higher than those. Right?

Also, I just upgraded my Netflix to the 4k HDR version... I should have done that a while ago...
 

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Yeah, you nailed it. ARC is pretty inconsistent...

I don't even have a blue ray player and my game system is a 360 I never really use... My friends are trying to get me to get a PS4. I know it plays Blu Ray but I heard that a dedicated one is way better.

Kinda still on topic though, I can get DTS natural x, DTS, and Dolby surround (with the trade mark on the display) options on my receiver through ARC. I'm not sure if it is the receiver doing the work or if it gets those signals. I think there are more settings or whatever but I don't know how I'd get it. Probably from a Blu Ray that's mixed for it. I don't think Netflix would have anything mixed higher than those. Right?

Also, I just upgraded my Netflix to the 4k HDR version... I should have done that a while ago...
The PS4 is a perfectly fine blu ray player, however, if you are only wanting a BR player, there are much cheaper options. ;)

DTS Natural and Dolby Surround are "surround modes" not audio codecs, when your AVR gets a DTS signal, it is using DTS Natural as the surround mode...when it gets a DD or DD+ signal, Dolby Surround. You can change these surround modes during playback to something else if you so desire.

DTS is a compressed audio format (competing with Dolby Digital).

Netflix uses Dolby Digital + or Dolby Digital on most of their content.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks man! I keep having random problems with the arc but it's when switching Chanel's on the receiver. I think it just decides not to receive the signal sometimes. What is the TV mode for then? Not cable/sat just TV. When I just leave the cable box plugged into the tv and the receiver on TV and don't change inputs on the receiver it works fine. Basically if nothing is going to the receiver the ARC works fine and uses the tv out as a audio in. Like a sound bar. But as soon as I try to run stuff into the receiver it gets confused about what the tv out is supposed to do. Even on the tv setting, which to me would mean it would be getting signal from the tv... My older Onkyo did the same thing pretty much. Guess they haven't figured it out.
 
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