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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im sure the separate front firing subwoofer will be better quality wise than a side firing, but i wanted to find out how much better. is it worth the compromise on a floorstanding speaker? i am intrigued by the space savings and also by the aesthetic look of floorstanding speakers with integrated side firing subwoofers. anyone with experience on this?
 

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While there are certainly differences in sound between side-, front-, rear-, bottom-, whatever-firing subs, the bigger issue here is location, location, location.


With an integrated sub, you have a very limited number of locations for the speakers. With a separate sub, you can put it in the corner, the middle of the room, against a wall, behind you, wherever the sub, room modes, your sound preferences, and decorating/aesthetics/WAF best work out.



Bill
 

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It's a compromise for sure in the bass department, often not capable of the output of something like an SVS, but it is appropriate in some situations. It really depends on the speaker that you're talking about.
 

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I am curious to know this as well based on the Def tech tower speakers that have a built in 12" 300 watt sub. if it's really a sub and any good.
 

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Typically, an integrated subwoofer will have a more seamless transition to the lower-midrange driver. The downside is that the best location of your main speakers will never be the best location for your subwoofer. It's not a bad compromise, though, if you have limited space and you don't want a separate sub.


Ambiguous enough for ya??
 

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How about a more specific view?


I have DefTechs (original BP-2000) with 15" powered subs, which I set up to fire at each other, and believe me, the bass is deep, powerful, and smooth.


Yes, Buggs, it's real sub-woofer material.
 

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The other problem with integrated subs, is that you now have 2 of them, and it is very difficult to get two subs to work together constructively in a room without creating all kinds of nulls in the process. Plus the fact, that because they are integrated into the mains, you have absolutely no flexibility in terms of moving them around to improve the interference problems you will get.


There is a paper over on the Harman International site somewhere, that says the best place to place two subs in a room, is opposite each other, 1/2 way down the longest walls. No way you can do that with 2 integrated speakers.
 

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Kevin, if ever you're in my area, please get in touch (via info on my site). I'd be glad to get your opinion on whether my bass suffers in any way. Seroiusly.
 

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Larry- Tell you what. Use something like this to plot the reponse around the room 1st:

http://www.etfacoustic.com/


I guarentee that the results from this will show you a whole bunch of problems with your integrated subs.


It's all about wavelengths, speaker (subwoofer) placement, and room dimensions. No way around it. Sorry! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisWiggles
It's a compromise for sure in the bass department, often not capable of the output of something like an SVS, but it is appropriate in some situations. It really depends on the speaker that you're talking about.
the two i was looking at is the now discontinued boston acoustics vr965/975 and the fluance sv10/sm938. im sure there are others (such as the deftech) that i have not researched on
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Larry Fine



Kevin, if ever you're in my area, please get in touch (via info on my site). I'd be glad to get your opinion on whether my bass suffers in any way. Seroiusly.



I know it sounds good to you Larry! I have Phase Tech. Teatro 11.5s (built-in 10" subs with a servo amp, very nice BTW) And they sound great as well!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Larry- Tell you what. Use something like this to plot the reponse around the room 1st:

http://www.etfacoustic.com/


I guarentee that the results from this will show you a whole bunch of problems with your integrated subs.


It's all about wavelengths, speaker (subwoofer) placement, and room dimensions. No way around it. Sorry! :)
But, I'm affraid Kevin is spot on with this. I have tested the Phase Techs, and they indeed have a couple of nulls (one fairly large one). And, to be honest it sounded really boomy on certain material, especially through the HK 8000 I had. But... I then got a "bass buster" acoustic module and bought the Pioneer 55TXi with MCACC. Now, it sounds near perfect to me on 99% of my material. There still is a null there when I run test signals through it, but they are much smaller than before. In fact they are much smaller than the nulls I had when I had regular towers with a seperate sub (that was optimally placed in my room) crossed over at 80Hz. To be honest, it's really hard to get perfect bass in a room, even with parametric EQ's (I have not tried one of those yet, oops I can't with the integrated subs, anyway) and acousic material.


I relalize that the MCACC in the 55TXi only adjusts EQ at 250Hz, 125Hz, and 63Hz in the bass area, but it, along with the bass module did an amazing job of taking care of the nulls in my room. BTW, I still use a seperate sub for Movies only (behind the couch, for that extra KICK) :D !


Best Regards,

Patrick
 

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I have a pair of Mirage OM-5's in the front which have 2 - 8" powered woofers in each. I also have a BPS-400 subwoofer catching the real low end. And, I have measured my bass response (as well as the whole frequency range) so many times that my Radio Shack meter has started to melt. I've done it with just the OM-5's and with the BPS-400 sub.


In general, my bass response has been pretty smooth, but I've always had one bad peak at around 60Hz in my room. THe separate sub just made it a bigger problem (higher peak), but I did not want to give up the flat response to 20hz. Luckily, I was able to tame with my B&K Ref 30 notch filter and the controls on the OM_5's (you can control level and crossover). Now I get 2-hz-130hz +/- 5db -- edit: that should be 20hz-130hz, not 2 -- which isn't perfect, but not bad for bass (of course that is at the primary sitting position).


I do think it takes more time and effort to get integrateds to work, but some like Infinities RABOS system and the Mirage's have controls that can help. The benefit can be very poswerful and slamming bass when you want it, and by just turning off the separate sub, deep controlled bass.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MarketingProf


The benefit can be very powerful and slamming bass when you want it, and by just turning off the separate sub, deep controlled bass.
MarketingProf,


My sentiments, exactly!


I use my integrated subs only for Cd listening, and for concert DVDs. On both I have different custom MCACC settings where I have the 63Hz band pumped up a little for CDs (and a little more with concert DVDs ;) ), and bamm, nice controlled "Deep" bass. When I want to shake rattle and roll with an action flick, I turn on the seperate sub!


BTW, nice setup you have there!


Best Regards,

Patrick
 
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